The economy of Honor

This works to prevent players from purchasing on-level epics as soon as or even before they ding 80. At most a player can purchase one or two pieces before using up his or her Honor. Emblems work in reverse. It's impossible to obtain emblems below the appropriate level, but there is no upper limit to the number of emblems you can store. Unlike badge gear from The Burning Crusade, where higher tier items for more badges were made available later in the expansion, Blizzard has created different tiers of gear for different emblems. This means it's unlikely that there will be new items available for Emblems of Heroism or Valor.
This means you won't progress gearwise just doing the same thing over and over. In order to get better gear, players will need to raid. In contrast, because Honor is the single currency a singular currency across all levels for PvP gear, Blizzard is constrained as to how to limit accessibility to better gear. They do this by putting a ratings requirement on the best PvP items, requiring successful participation in Arena play. Arenas are to PvP are what raids are to PvE. It's not a perfect system, but it will do for now. But what happens when players reach the Honor cap and have every item they need or want?
The current problem with the Honor cap right now is that there's no Honor dump. Players who enjoy PvP must continue to PvP for no reward other than the sheer enjoyment of PvP. PvP isn't a profitable endeavor at all. While there are associated costs involved in doing instances or raiding, doing instances or raids on farm is extremely profitable, where the money earned from mobs outweigh any durability costs. On the other hand, the only money to be earned from PvP is from the daily quests in Wintergrasp or a random Battleground. Equipment also suffers durability over time, and a few hours of PvP will easily cost quite a bit of Gold in repair.
I've got an issue with this. I've been Honor-capped for weeks now, with nothing to buy. But because I prefer PvP in the Battlegrounds when I'm not raiding or doing Arenas, all I can accrue (or not accrue) is Honor. My Marks of Honor are capped at 100, and I don't even bother to pick up the Marks in the mail because all I can get in exchange for them is -- you guessed it -- more Honor which I don't need. On the flip side, players who continue to do Heroics can pick up Emblems of Heroism which have no upper limit but have more dumps as players can even purchase PvP gear with them. Kalgan has noted it won't be as easy to get PvP gear with Emblems of Conquest, but that's pretty much after the fact.
Most items purchased with emblems can be disenchanted into Abyss Crystals, which can be used to enchant or sold for a hefty profit. Emblems can also be used to purchase Frozen Orbs and rare, uncut gems, both of which can be used or sold for profit. Honor can only be used to purchase PvP gear and a few uncommon jewelcrafting designs. PvP items cannot be disenchanted nor sold to vendors. As fun as Arenas are, I can only play so many games in a week and I can't PUG it like I can in the Battlegrounds. Instances bore me, so I hardly do them. I have acquired almost 500 Stone Keeper's Shards, almost all of them from doing Wintergrasp daily quests.
Players who are no longer looking for drops in Heroic dungeons still continue to do them because it's quite profitable to do so. Should PvP be equally profitable? Probably not, but it should be more rewarding than it is right now. I try to loot every player I kill in a Battleground, as some drop as much as 40 Silver. It's pretty sad. I've read some comments saying that the fun of PvP should be its own reward. That's an odd argument. A lot of people find running dungeons a lot of fun, but fun isn't the only thing they get out of it.
There needs to be an Honor and Marks of Honor dump. It's that simple. Pre-Wrath, there were the different mana potions purchaseable with Battleground marks. There's no equivalent in Wrath. The closest thing to a Honor dump there is are the Greater Inscriptions of the Gladiator, which go for 10,000 Honor. I've bought four although I have nothing to put them on. The next are Star's Sorrow, which cost 1 Gold and 12 Honor for a stack of 20. It's a great drink that's usable in Arenas, but what am I going to do with 6,250 stacks of them?
The restriction that Blizzard puts on Honor purchases is an outmoded idea. It's a legacy of an old system that needs to be revisited. The limits on Honor were there to control acquisition of 'welfare epics', but now that raids are easily done by PUGs, the real welfare epics come from PvE. Isn't putting a ratings requirement on gear enough of a restriction to allow the lifting of the Honor cap?
Why aren't there items like Frozen Orbs or gems, or even consumables purchasable with Honor? How about an Honor-bought version of Lesser Flask of Toughness (I actually use those)? Or Battlegrounds-only versions of Blackened Worg Steaks? Blizzard has been extremely creative with Gold -- and emblem -- dumps in Wrath, I don't see why there aren't better items available through Honor. Hopefully in the great and promising Patch 3.1, they'll look at the Honor system, too.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, PvP, Battlegrounds






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Linden Feb 8th 2009 6:38PM
@ joe: I'm guessing the closed comments may be on this one http://www.wowinsider.com/2009/02/08/markee-dragon-and-mmowned-taken-offline/
But it looks like its open... there are certainly comments on it. As for freedom of speech you're right - this is a website the only rights you get are those that are given to you, still I can't see why a major community news source would lock commenting as it will only harm itself.
*shrug* sorry that was OT....
as for this article it looks like honor is one of those things that got overlooked, which is unsurprising. When you have something as complex as wow there are only so many hours in the dev's day and only so many of them to watch every aspect, no doubt they'll address this if all else fails level an alt to collect honor on 0_<
Elbows Feb 8th 2009 6:07PM
There seem to be so few things to use honor for this time round, resilience buff foods FTW!
Sev Feb 8th 2009 6:10PM
I agree. There does need soemthing to spend honor on other than gear.
Even for me, an 80 Hunter who barely does any PvP (PvE hore here) I gain honor so fast it's not even funny.
Chickenboy Feb 10th 2009 1:51PM
First noobs
awzom poste
Peridan Feb 8th 2009 6:12PM
Totally agree. I used to love to do battlegrounds. Even joined a PVP guild on my server during BC. I'm still in that guild but we rarely run battlegrounds any more and even arenas aren't as popular as they once were.
What's the point? We get better PVP gear from PVE and any honor earned is pretty much useless now that we're in raid epics.
On our battlegroup it's typically a 20+ minute wait for AV. And WSG and EOTS are often started with warnings of not enough players. *sigh*
Joe Feb 8th 2009 6:29PM
umm, wtf? does anybody know what this toolbag is talking about?
Also, I would just like to point out that freedom of speech has nothing to do with internet blog comments in any way. The level of ignorance all over the internet concerning the freedom of speech is staggering.
sephirah Feb 8th 2009 6:36PM
He was talking about deleted posts, and his post has been deleted...
Plan Feb 8th 2009 6:38PM
1) Honor is NOT the only currency for PvP gear. There are FIVE currencies for PvP gear -- Honor, Arena Points, Stone Keeper's Shards, Emblems of Heroism and Emblems of Valor.
2) The ratings system won't "do for now." People have abandoned PvP en masse because unlike the old system (pre-S3/S4) you can't even be competitive in Battlegrounds unless you hit rating requirements in arena. That means for everyone with unfavored specs, unfavored classes, or no desire to do arena, you're doomed to being two-shotted and severely underpowered against the people with favored specs, ratings and gear.
3) Garmarand is 100% correct. WoW Insider routinely posts bad information and there is no accountability. There is no system in place where the editors run corrections, posts with bad information are almost always left intact, and the staff does come in and delete/mod down posts they don't like, even if the criticism is legitimate. I've seen this many, many times.
Remember the post about trading 10 Emblems of Heroism for one Emblem of Valor? A news site run by competent editors would have run a correction and made it very, very clear in the original post that the story was wrong. But WoW Insider left the post almost intact, with only a small note at the bottom to let readers know the story wasn't true. The end result was a couple of weeks of rumors in-game and on the official forums about the supposed 10-to-1 trade. Even my guildies were talking about it. Great job WI.
Likewise, whenever there's a post about talent specs or itemization, it's almost guaranteed to be wrong. I don't think Matthew Rossi is a bad guy, but every post I've seen from him regarding Shaman talent specs has been flat-out wrong, and it took a couple of months of readers posting the link to Elitist Jerks for him to finally notice and proclaim, "Hey guys, I found this great site that has info on itemization and specs!"
I'm surprised the Joystiq parent network puts up with this stuff. Every blog, magazine or newspaper makes mistakes, but it's truly a sign of amateurs when the writers and editors have such thin skin they resort to attacking readers, deleting their posts, modding them down, and having friends/alt accounts criticize them in the comments sections. This site is sorely in need of a good editor who understands what it is to be professional.
Matthew Rossi Feb 8th 2009 6:48PM
Considering that you just said that Garamarand's post was polite when he called us all c#cks#ckers and hoped we'd all die in our own bloody feces, I don't feel the need to take your criticism of my use or not of Elitist Jerks all that seriously.
But in case you can actually read:
http://www.wowinsider.com/2007/10/11/totem-talk-two-fists-of-fury-or-axes-or-maces/
October 2007. I mention Elitist Jerks prominently in the opening paragraph. My first column writing Totem Talk was http://www.wowinsider.com/2007/08/26/totem-talk-hi-im-a-shaman-take-me-to-your-instance/ - August of that year.
Find a column heavily about shaman specs between the two.
Of course, since your idea of polite criticism is to insinuate my sexual habits are somehow worthy of commentary or to wish death upon me in my own waste matter, I'm not sure what different it would make.
Zach Feb 8th 2009 6:54PM
@Plan -
1) Edited for clarification, thanks. I mention in the same article that emblems are usable for purchase of PvP gear. The focus is on Honor and the antiquated Honor cap, which is why Stone Keeper's Shards -- which can be stacked without limit -- aren't mentioned. I wrote a guide to PvP gear:
http://www.wowinsider.com/2008/12/18/wrath-101-pvp-welfare-gear/
I mention here all the methods by which players can acquire PvP gear, including Honor, emblems, and Arena points. This post is about the current implementation of Honor.
2) Give me numbers to validate your point and I'll change what I said. Right now, participation in Battlegrounds, including Wintergrasp, is respectable. Leaving PvP 'en masse' is a blanket statement tantamount to the irresponsibility you accuse us of.
3) That's a charge I'm going to have to take on. Routinely put bad information? We'll probably call things wrong now and again, but we make certain to correct factual error.
As for post deletion, this is a moderated blog so comments that contain profanity -- which I'm afraid Gamara had. I still have an e-mail of his comment, part of which read:
"****ing american ***suckers." (asterisks mine)
Free speech notwithstanding, I don't think we're going to tolerate wanton use of profanity in our comments section. You want to get banned or your post deleted? Go ahead and spout profanity. The same response is given on a lot of forums, I don't see why it cannot be done here.
Danel Feb 8th 2009 7:33PM
I'd also have to object to your bizarre claim that any criticism or downranking of the crazy troll anti-WI posts is done by the writers and not, say, by readers exercising their right to disagree with aforementioned crazy troll comments.
I always love going back through old posts and seeing all the old iconoclasts breathlessly declaring that their post will be deleted at any moment...
Plan Feb 8th 2009 8:18PM
"Considering that you just said that Garamarand's post was polite when he called us all c#cks#ckers and hoped we'd all die in our own bloody feces, I don't feel the need to take your criticism of my use or not of Elitist Jerks all that seriously."
I got the impression his first comment was deleted, since in the comment I read he was complaining that you deleted his posts. There was nothing about feces or death-wishes in that second comment, and clearly you were deleting them quickly, so you can't fault me for not seeing a comment that wasn't there when I replied. That said, if he was using profanity or death threats, then obviously that's not cool.
Second, while this has generated a response from you guys (and you seem angry), I would have thought maybe you'd take more time to respond to the criticisms about inaccuracies, or the complete lack of a system for corrections.
I don't see how you can argue with the fact that there are routine errors, posts sourced to rumors, and no formal way to let readers know that earlier information was incorrect.
Rossi, I can say emphatically that you give bad advice about Shaman specs and itemization. I'm an Enhancement player, the type of guy who couldn't go Elemental or Resto if I wanted to because my guild won't let me. They like me where I am, and they like the raid contribution of DPS and buffs an Enhancement Shaman brings. But one month, during a two-week break in raiding, I decided to drop my 200+ badges on Elemental gear and go have fun with the spec.
I checked forum posts, I checked WoW Insider, and I checked Elitist Jerks. Guess who was recommending the worst spec, with talent choices that showed you were absolutely oblivious to some big aspects of the class? Likewise, I remember reading another post of yours recommending Enhancement talents where you told readers to get Shield Spec. Dude...I don't know what to say, except that God help the newer players who read this site and aren't used to digging around places like EJ, MMO Champion and some of the other specialty sites.
And I do feel if you're going to be writing a column where you dispense advice to players, you have an obligation to make sure you're giving out good advice.
Ditto with the 10-to-1 Emblem story. There are others, but you'll have to forgive me if I don't keep a written tab of the errors on this blog. You guys don't even do that.
Like I said, I'm not knocking you personally, but as I wrote in my earlier post, this blog is sorely in need of an editor who has an eye for factual errors and some knowledge about the game. And you need to come up with a formal corrections system. Just because the mistakes aren't acknowledged doesn't mean people don't notice them.
Zach -- No one has numbers on how many people are still active in PvP, but I can tell you from personal experience on three servers, anecdotal evidence from acquaintances and casual reading on the forums that the changes have driven away lots of players. If you've got Blizzard's private numbers, please share them. We'd all be interested in seeing them. But I'm not sure you can argue that interest in PvP has gone up when the rewards are unachievable for the majority of players.
Netgyrl Feb 10th 2009 8:02PM
amen to your point 2 - i will not do an single bit of PVP again until they get rid of the need for Arena rank for gear. I dont like being forced to play arena. I dont want to play arena. Nothing it gonna make be do it. the only way made it possible for me to get epics even tho i had very little time to play and could never raid or rarely instance. i'm sad they took away my welfare epics.
zig zug Feb 9th 2009 1:23PM
lol plan got owned.
Plan Feb 8th 2009 6:57PM
I see Garmarand's post was deleted, despite the fact that he was polite in his critcism and had some valid points about misinformation on this blog.
I'm sure my own post has about 60 seconds left to live.
Question for the editors: Do you think deleting critical comments makes readers less likely to notice your mistakes, or less likely to use you as a source of news about this game?
I can guarantee you it's the latter. Time spent deleting comments is time that could have been invested in proofreading and fact-checking. Your readers will thank you for it.
Zach Feb 8th 2009 6:58PM
Critical comments are fine. Profanity is not. Sorry, but there are other avenues for that.
Kendrathe Feb 8th 2009 7:05PM
I'm almost positive that it's how he conveyed his opinion that was moderated, not what he was trying to say.
Seriously, it's not really that hard to express critical opinions without seeming like the cesspool of the internet.
Warsong Mage Feb 8th 2009 6:41PM
I agree that there should be more pvp consumables and while an Honor Cap might not be lifted, moving said cap to 100k would help a lot. Also, Wintergrasp Commendations cost 9 wintergrasp marks and give 2k honor each. I had a stack of 6 of them when I reached Honor Cap and before I got a rating to purchase more gear.
dtrmp4 Feb 8th 2009 6:49PM
You can get badges of justice before 70. We've ran 68-69s through heroics before wrath to try to get them some gear and they got badges too.
Morkeliph Feb 8th 2009 6:53PM
Since we can buy PvP gear with emblems the reverse ought to be also true. It should be possible to earn PvE set pieces for honor/marks. This would help give PvPers something to spend honor on and would encourage them to participate in PvE more, which seems to be Blizzard's main focus these days.
Alternatively, Blizzard could create a whole set of PvP emblem gear that could be purchased with Emblems of the Gladiator. These emblems could be purchased through honor (5000:1); BG marks (5 of each:1); or through completing daily PvP acheivements (defend X flags in AB; kill X flag carriers in WSG, etc.). Emblem of the Gladiator sets should be approximately equivalent to Deadly Gladiator gear but require no rating requirements. This would give people who love PvP but not arena something to work for, while creating more interest in BGs. The Emblems could also be tradable for Frozen Orbs, etc, just like Emblems of Heroism, etc.
This would be pretty easy for Blizzard to implement and I think would be received well by the PvP community, with exception of the arena elite (but that's a small group and blizzard could just give them even better gear through arena points to appease them).