Are Death Knights autowin in PvP part II
Mitigation and control
We've mentioned mitigation, but even if these were nerfed they still bear mentioning. The Unholy talent Bone Shield is a 20% mitigation that's undispellable because it's a physical buff. Most PvP Death Knights will have this. Then there's the obscenely overpowered -- even after the nerf -- baseline spell Icebound Fortitude. Aside from 20% mitigation again, that's a 12 second stun immunity every minute. It costs a mere 20 runic power, making it easy to have up at all times. Death Knights can theoretically be immune to stuns 20% of the time. Although you won't see it too often, Guile of Gorefiend deep in Frost makes it last 18 seconds, or roughly 30% uptime. It's also a physical buff, making it undispellable. Did I mention it's off the GCD? Yeah.
We've mentioned Lichborne, which is like the PvP trinket on steroids because it not only breaks but provides immunity as the Death Knight becomes Undead. Another talent that makes them Undead is Shadow of Death, which keeps them fighting. Even though no longer usable in Arenas, Unholy Death Knights in the Battlegrounds or in world PvP aren't just hard to kill, you have to kill them twice. If that's not survivability, I don't know what is.
Both Lichborne and Shadow of Death are talents, however, so not Death Knights will be unstoppable, un-CCable Undead machines of doom. On the other hand, Anti-Magic Shell is a baseline ability that makes every single one of them immune to most forms of crowd control for 5 seconds every 45 seconds. Hex, Sheep, Paladin stun, Fear... none of those will work. That's in addition to the 75% damage absorption. It probably won't surprise you if I told you this is off the GCD. Because it is.
The importance of speed
Speed is critical in PvP. This is why Unholy Presence is godly. It's great for DPS, sure, but being able to access important abilities at an instant is so powerful in an environment where everything happens within the blink of an eye. So while most classes lock themselves out of options for 1.5 seconds whenever they cast a spell or perform a strike, Death Knights are only locked out for 1. Furthermore, the good number of mitigation and anti-CC abilities they have off the GCD means that they can freely use special strikes while still having instant access to those spells. Not only do they have access to those spells, but if the situation calls for it, they can activate them all at the same time.
I don't think I need to spell out how stupidly powerful this is. Death Knights have powerful spells off the GCD on relatively short cooldowns. Meanwhile, something as simple as Paladin auras activate the GCD. The Death Knight version, the presences, are off them. Furthermore, Death Knights have access to instant heals. Hybrid classes in DPS specs such as Enhancement Shamans and Retribution Paladins don't have instant heals. Well, Paladins do when they pick up The Art of War. Except that The Art of War procs after a crit, and Flash of Light heals for considerably less than a Death Strike, even when it crits. Furthermore, an instant Flash of Light activates the GCD and resets the swing timer.
We won't even need to talk about the plethora of offensive abilities a Death Knight has access to. I'm sure many of you have tasted that first hand. The reason Death Knights are so powerful in PvP is an accident of design. Many of the mitigation abilities are intended for tanking, but they translate incredibly well for PvP, too. The change to Icebound Fortitude was made so that tanks with high defense could continue to have their own version of Shield Wall on a one minute timer. It's no longer as strong in PvP but you get the idea. The class is designed to tank while dealing good DPS, but the corollary is that the class will be devastating in PvP.
So are Death Knights autowin in PvP? Will the side that has more Death Knights win the match? It's definitely a stretch to proclaim that, but it does have some basis. The class in the hands of a mediocre player can do incredibly well. Now imagine that class in the hands of the best PvP players in the world. That, my friends, is an autowin.
We've mentioned mitigation, but even if these were nerfed they still bear mentioning. The Unholy talent Bone Shield is a 20% mitigation that's undispellable because it's a physical buff. Most PvP Death Knights will have this. Then there's the obscenely overpowered -- even after the nerf -- baseline spell Icebound Fortitude. Aside from 20% mitigation again, that's a 12 second stun immunity every minute. It costs a mere 20 runic power, making it easy to have up at all times. Death Knights can theoretically be immune to stuns 20% of the time. Although you won't see it too often, Guile of Gorefiend deep in Frost makes it last 18 seconds, or roughly 30% uptime. It's also a physical buff, making it undispellable. Did I mention it's off the GCD? Yeah.
We've mentioned Lichborne, which is like the PvP trinket on steroids because it not only breaks but provides immunity as the Death Knight becomes Undead. Another talent that makes them Undead is Shadow of Death, which keeps them fighting. Even though no longer usable in Arenas, Unholy Death Knights in the Battlegrounds or in world PvP aren't just hard to kill, you have to kill them twice. If that's not survivability, I don't know what is.
Both Lichborne and Shadow of Death are talents, however, so not Death Knights will be unstoppable, un-CCable Undead machines of doom. On the other hand, Anti-Magic Shell is a baseline ability that makes every single one of them immune to most forms of crowd control for 5 seconds every 45 seconds. Hex, Sheep, Paladin stun, Fear... none of those will work. That's in addition to the 75% damage absorption. It probably won't surprise you if I told you this is off the GCD. Because it is.
The importance of speed
Speed is critical in PvP. This is why Unholy Presence is godly. It's great for DPS, sure, but being able to access important abilities at an instant is so powerful in an environment where everything happens within the blink of an eye. So while most classes lock themselves out of options for 1.5 seconds whenever they cast a spell or perform a strike, Death Knights are only locked out for 1. Furthermore, the good number of mitigation and anti-CC abilities they have off the GCD means that they can freely use special strikes while still having instant access to those spells. Not only do they have access to those spells, but if the situation calls for it, they can activate them all at the same time.
I don't think I need to spell out how stupidly powerful this is. Death Knights have powerful spells off the GCD on relatively short cooldowns. Meanwhile, something as simple as Paladin auras activate the GCD. The Death Knight version, the presences, are off them. Furthermore, Death Knights have access to instant heals. Hybrid classes in DPS specs such as Enhancement Shamans and Retribution Paladins don't have instant heals. Well, Paladins do when they pick up The Art of War. Except that The Art of War procs after a crit, and Flash of Light heals for considerably less than a Death Strike, even when it crits. Furthermore, an instant Flash of Light activates the GCD and resets the swing timer.
We won't even need to talk about the plethora of offensive abilities a Death Knight has access to. I'm sure many of you have tasted that first hand. The reason Death Knights are so powerful in PvP is an accident of design. Many of the mitigation abilities are intended for tanking, but they translate incredibly well for PvP, too. The change to Icebound Fortitude was made so that tanks with high defense could continue to have their own version of Shield Wall on a one minute timer. It's no longer as strong in PvP but you get the idea. The class is designed to tank while dealing good DPS, but the corollary is that the class will be devastating in PvP.
So are Death Knights autowin in PvP? Will the side that has more Death Knights win the match? It's definitely a stretch to proclaim that, but it does have some basis. The class in the hands of a mediocre player can do incredibly well. Now imagine that class in the hands of the best PvP players in the world. That, my friends, is an autowin.






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 5)
erik Feb 10th 2009 7:07PM
death knights take zero skill
Ikarus Feb 11th 2009 3:08PM
I'm guessing you've never played one. If your assumption was correct all the other DK's I've run with would be topping the meters. That just isn't the case.
Mith Feb 12th 2009 3:23AM
This article is incredibly biased and sensationalised, mainly biased. I'd like to see your experience playing a Death Knight and/or some comments from the W.I. Death Knight to justify some of the arguments you made. I play a Balance Druid and, while I do think they need some adjusting they CAN and WILL die in PvP.
Assisthock9 Feb 17th 2009 9:55AM
I roll a DK and yes we are Kitable... had plenty of (hey the other so called "OP" PvP class/spec) Ret Pallies do it to me... you wanna say that all the DK CD's are OP'd? how about the Bubble? it is still OP'd after the nerf... that is just how it goes... they'll take the small hit that the bubble grants and still kick your ass. and like the hunter above said just wait for DG to be on CD and if you catch us with Chains of Ice on CD we're screwed even with all our other CD's up... the acritcle above basically says "even while we doXYZ we're still dying because of 123" well lets see #1 adapt the above hunter has and it works so well he isn't afraid if not even happy to see a DK come along... #2 read the rest of the talents in the DK's tree... most every one specs the 100% death rune proc because it allows more damage... the only spec that DOESN'T transform the blood runes into death runes is Blood... this means that after up to 3 consecutive Scourge strikes we have no more runes... we've essentially blown our wad. If you can't CC us some how and get enough distance to at least put a few Debuffs on us before our runes have cd'd then you shouldn't be in pvp... adapt and get better stop QQing... i don't want my PvE experience (yes i'm a carebear) fucked over because of PvP QQ's...
censorman Feb 20th 2009 3:48PM
To beat 80% of your opponents in open world and bgs, DKs take zero skill.
To beat the good players, DKs take about 50% skill.
This said, I love my DK - but I'm grinding up a few alts cause it's paladin boring you win so fast.
Thlop Feb 10th 2009 7:10PM
We are the most kitable class in game at the moment, and are suseptable to stuns.
Death Knights are not 'autowin'.
Sean Riley Feb 10th 2009 7:13PM
You're susceptible to stuns most of the time. But when you need to be you're not.
They're not autowin. But they're still ludicrously overpowered.
GnomesScareMe Feb 10th 2009 7:19PM
Most kitable + deathgrip = does not compute
ret paladin + no deathgrip + no ranged attacks = most kitable for reals
Lemons Feb 10th 2009 7:33PM
OMG, susceptible to stuns? You poor baby!
..wait a second..every other class in the entire freaking game is highly susceptible to stuns (with the exception of the mage, but they're wearing cloth). And Death Knights are by no means the most susceptible, most classes don't even have something akin to Icebound Fort to save them for even 15 secs.
Honestly DKs are overpowered because they're the only class that has a counter to everything else, they were made last and blizz took into account all the tricks of all the other classes and made a class that can counter them all. GG.
p.s. not to mention the self healing + survivability, but you already knew that if you read the article.
Heilig Feb 10th 2009 9:44PM
Holy Crap, did you actually just say that DK's are the most kitable class in the game? Are you high?
Two words: Death Grip.
Zach Feb 10th 2009 9:54PM
@Thlop - Learn2play. Seriously. Death Grip + Icebound Fortitude. You're less susceptible to stuns than most classes because you're immune to it for 15 secs every minute. 18 if talented.
Euripides Feb 11th 2009 9:14AM
The only annoying part of beating a DK as a survival hunter is that you have to wait for them to blow their deathgrip before using wing clip/disengage. The benefit of death grip is obvious- you get off a trap to force a lock and load, which gives you 3 explosive shots in a row. The first tick of the second one has removed their bone shield, and the rest go on to do (for the well geared) ticks of 7k that crit 50% of the time self buffed.
DKs are not invincible, but paladins are retardedly hard to kill. I'll typically unload on them until they bubble, then just go find a DK to work on.
Zeplar Feb 10th 2009 7:11PM
This article is all true, but... I'm getting a litttle bit of a bias here :). Because, when I think about, as Feral OR Balance on my druid (and druids are probly 3rd on the most-OP-class scale) I can beat death knights in duels, almost all the time, regardless of gear difference (I'm ilevel 200 any spec).
In arenas, I do have a lot more trouble with them, because the big thing that DK's hate is roots and stuns, and you can't always focus on CC when you're being beaten up in an arena.
Brianboru Feb 10th 2009 7:13PM
I wouldn't say auto-win, but I will say I get ripped through as badly as I ripped through other classes on my lock in BC. When Blizz says hero class, obviously they mean it :p
Jabadabadana Feb 10th 2009 7:14PM
That sums it up pretty well, and you managed to do it all without mentioning Death Grip, which has to rank as one of the favorite pvp abilities.
John Feb 10th 2009 7:15PM
Your post sums up exactly why Death Knights need a good hard nerf. A class that is built around doing damage should NOT be able to self heal to such a degree that they already can. They should not be able to come out of a stun lock and go from 20% to 100% in a matter of 10 seconds, ALL THE WHILE doing damge. My view of pvp is based on sacrifices, that means that you should choose to either go on the defensive and heal OR you should be able to go on the offensive and damage, NOT both. It will take time, but hopefully blizzard will grow tired of their new toy, realize that they have created a pvp juggernaut, and proceed to nerf their healing ability.
Cowbane Feb 10th 2009 10:34PM
Anyone remember when S.Priests got Vamp Embrace nerfed because we provided to much heals? Really? Ok.
zappo Feb 11th 2009 8:58AM
Self healing in itself isn't entirely the problem though. Another part of the issue is that they can self heal without a mana bar. Simply put mana is a finite resource which you can outlast if you lack the offensive power to burst someone down. Death knights regenerate runes on a timer so they essentially have unlimited healing over time. Made worse by the extent of how much they self heal as you said.
This is also why I think it's rather laughable when people say Blizzard could make healing interesting by doing dps and healing at the same time. You'd end up with this very problem but 10x worse.
ShadzKing Feb 10th 2009 7:21PM
As a lock [who are basically the worst class to play PVP], DKs aren't that hard to kill. All those amazing spells are there for them but in the chaos that is BG its very easy to just Fear and kite them...thats if I can't avoid the fight itself lol. Yeah in Arena they will destroy any caster with ease. Overall those bastards are strong...but at least they don't have a bubble heal...
/stares at pallies and priests
Eisengel Feb 11th 2009 1:48PM
I'm sorry, were you just equating pw:s that will heal for ~1k, glyphed, and absorb 4k damage, to a pally becoming entirely immune to all damage for 12 seconds and casting Lay on Hands? Most melee classes can easily crit in the 4ks in the 80s. So pw:s gives ~1k health and can absorb a crit... once every 15 seconds. So.. if your DPS is, let's say, 2k, then all I need is about 30,000 health to just survive until I can shield again. If you don't crit... if you don't CC... if you don't silence me. Yup, that's right up there with that Paladin juju. Wait... what?