Are Death Knights autowin in PvP?
Here's a question I'm sure a lot of players have asked themselves when faced against those dreaded Death Knights. Critical QQ wrote an interesting post in his blog theorizing that the side with the most number of Death Knights will win. Think Ret Paladin during the first week or so of Patch 3.0. He posits that Death Knights are such a powerful PvP class that they tend to turn the tide of a battle. To a degree, it's actually true. The very first Arena Master was a Death Knight.
The blog post plays out several scenarios where Death Knights make a difference but doesn't get into too much detail. But the point he makes is clear, and some of you might have actually felt it whenever you played some Battlegrounds -- whichever side has the most Death Knights wins. I've never actually stopped to figure out the ratio of Death Knights in all my Battlegrounds games, but there's no question a Death Knight is a force to be reckoned with in PvP. But are they unbeatable?
The obvious answer, of course, is no. But they sure are damn hard to put down. Blizzard was aware of this and severely nerfed Unholy in Patch 3.0.8, cutting down the duration of Anti-Magic Zone, lowering the mitigation of Bone Shield and Icebound Fortitude, and putting an unnecessarily long cooldown on Shadow of Death as well as removed it from Arena play. The last change was needed, but the 15 minute cooldown is probably too long considering Blizzard also nerfed the duration to 25 seconds. They also toned down the class' burst damage somewhat, including the amazing Gargoyle talent.
The non-healer healing class
So how come Death Knights are still extremely powerful in PvP despite the mitigation nerfs? Have you ever fought a Death Knight and wondered to yourself why your health keeps getting low while theirs is getting high even after you've hit them with everything you've got? Something that's been overlooked for the most part in the spate of recent balance changes is the sheer awesomeness of Death Knight self-healing. Mitigation on separate cooldowns and a variety of self-heals make Death Knights one of the most resilient classes in the game.
As a baseline ability, Death Knights have Death Strike, a melee strike that heals them as long as they have stacks of diseases on their target. Once Death Knights have set up, it becomes very difficult to stop them because they'll wear you down while they pump themselves up. Then there's Death Pact, the legacy Warcraft III ability, that sacrifices an undead minion such as a ghoul or gargoyle in exchange for health. Note that Death Pact works off maximum health and not current health, which means it's an excellent ability to use when their pet is about to die.
Blood has access to Rune Tap, as well, which when improved can heal them for 20% of their health every 30 seconds. Prior to the nerf, the most popular PvP builds were a mix of Blood and Unholy which had access to frightening healing as well as mitigation. Blood / Unholy Death Knights will use either Scourge Strike or Death Strike depending on whether they need healing. Because both strikes use Unholy and Frost runes, this leaves a Blood rune or two for Rune Tap at a moment's notice. That's not even the best part. Rune Tap is off the GCD. Insane? Sure it is.
While not a popular build for PvP, some pick up talents like Bloodworms, Blood Aura, and Vampiric Blood, which add to self-healing. Vendetta is awesome for a continous grind -- not just for mobs, but in Battlegrounds PvP or Wintergrasp. Sure they'll need to land the killing blow to proc it, but they're Death Knights. Killing blows are second nature to them.
Now, although Unholy is still the PvP tree, it's now more common to complement it with Frost all the way up to Killing Machine. Players speccing Frost / Unholy pick up Lichborne along the way, which is an incredible anti-CC ability on a three minute cooldown. Aside from breaking Charm, Fear, and Sleep effects, it provides immunity to it for 15 seconds. Guess what? Just like Rune Tap, Lichborne is off the GCD, as well. Here's another Death Knight trick -- when under the effects of Lichborne, they can heal themselves with Death Coil. So you can add that to the list of effective self-heals.
Understand that these heals can tick for a lot. Death Strike can crit, which sometimes results in heals upwards of 5,000 hp. This means that while they're dealing damage, they're healing themselves at the same time. Because Unholy Presence cuts the GCD by .5 seconds, Death Knights can blow two Death Strikes in quick succession to heal themselves for a considerable amount. If they have a lot of diseases stacked, that's a lot of healing. Ten seconds later, they'll be able to do it again.
The best (or worst, if you're up against a Death Knight) part is, all of these heals are instant. None of them have a cast time. Rune Tap is an instant heal off the GCD on a thirty second cooldown. Death Strike is a heal that is part of an attack, usable twice in succession every ten seconds. Death Pact is instant on a three minute timer. Bloodworms just happen. All Death Knights will have access to Death Strike and Death Pact, while the others are talents. Instant, uninterruptible self-healing on one of the most devastating DPS classes is equal to PvP godhood.
The blog post plays out several scenarios where Death Knights make a difference but doesn't get into too much detail. But the point he makes is clear, and some of you might have actually felt it whenever you played some Battlegrounds -- whichever side has the most Death Knights wins. I've never actually stopped to figure out the ratio of Death Knights in all my Battlegrounds games, but there's no question a Death Knight is a force to be reckoned with in PvP. But are they unbeatable?
The obvious answer, of course, is no. But they sure are damn hard to put down. Blizzard was aware of this and severely nerfed Unholy in Patch 3.0.8, cutting down the duration of Anti-Magic Zone, lowering the mitigation of Bone Shield and Icebound Fortitude, and putting an unnecessarily long cooldown on Shadow of Death as well as removed it from Arena play. The last change was needed, but the 15 minute cooldown is probably too long considering Blizzard also nerfed the duration to 25 seconds. They also toned down the class' burst damage somewhat, including the amazing Gargoyle talent.
The non-healer healing class
So how come Death Knights are still extremely powerful in PvP despite the mitigation nerfs? Have you ever fought a Death Knight and wondered to yourself why your health keeps getting low while theirs is getting high even after you've hit them with everything you've got? Something that's been overlooked for the most part in the spate of recent balance changes is the sheer awesomeness of Death Knight self-healing. Mitigation on separate cooldowns and a variety of self-heals make Death Knights one of the most resilient classes in the game.
As a baseline ability, Death Knights have Death Strike, a melee strike that heals them as long as they have stacks of diseases on their target. Once Death Knights have set up, it becomes very difficult to stop them because they'll wear you down while they pump themselves up. Then there's Death Pact, the legacy Warcraft III ability, that sacrifices an undead minion such as a ghoul or gargoyle in exchange for health. Note that Death Pact works off maximum health and not current health, which means it's an excellent ability to use when their pet is about to die.
Blood has access to Rune Tap, as well, which when improved can heal them for 20% of their health every 30 seconds. Prior to the nerf, the most popular PvP builds were a mix of Blood and Unholy which had access to frightening healing as well as mitigation. Blood / Unholy Death Knights will use either Scourge Strike or Death Strike depending on whether they need healing. Because both strikes use Unholy and Frost runes, this leaves a Blood rune or two for Rune Tap at a moment's notice. That's not even the best part. Rune Tap is off the GCD. Insane? Sure it is.
While not a popular build for PvP, some pick up talents like Bloodworms, Blood Aura, and Vampiric Blood, which add to self-healing. Vendetta is awesome for a continous grind -- not just for mobs, but in Battlegrounds PvP or Wintergrasp. Sure they'll need to land the killing blow to proc it, but they're Death Knights. Killing blows are second nature to them.
Now, although Unholy is still the PvP tree, it's now more common to complement it with Frost all the way up to Killing Machine. Players speccing Frost / Unholy pick up Lichborne along the way, which is an incredible anti-CC ability on a three minute cooldown. Aside from breaking Charm, Fear, and Sleep effects, it provides immunity to it for 15 seconds. Guess what? Just like Rune Tap, Lichborne is off the GCD, as well. Here's another Death Knight trick -- when under the effects of Lichborne, they can heal themselves with Death Coil. So you can add that to the list of effective self-heals.
Understand that these heals can tick for a lot. Death Strike can crit, which sometimes results in heals upwards of 5,000 hp. This means that while they're dealing damage, they're healing themselves at the same time. Because Unholy Presence cuts the GCD by .5 seconds, Death Knights can blow two Death Strikes in quick succession to heal themselves for a considerable amount. If they have a lot of diseases stacked, that's a lot of healing. Ten seconds later, they'll be able to do it again.
The best (or worst, if you're up against a Death Knight) part is, all of these heals are instant. None of them have a cast time. Rune Tap is an instant heal off the GCD on a thirty second cooldown. Death Strike is a heal that is part of an attack, usable twice in succession every ten seconds. Death Pact is instant on a three minute timer. Bloodworms just happen. All Death Knights will have access to Death Strike and Death Pact, while the others are talents. Instant, uninterruptible self-healing on one of the most devastating DPS classes is equal to PvP godhood.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, PvP, Death Knight







Reader Comments (Page 1 of 4)
Touphi Feb 10th 2009 7:08PM
I hope I wasn't the only person who saw the pic on this post and thought "Dang I lost the statue."
I wasn't, right?
Right?
SaintStryfe Feb 10th 2009 7:16PM
Autowin? no.
Difficult to beat for a lot of classes, due to high armor, lack of disease cleansing and Death's Grasp? Yep.
Aaron1570 Feb 10th 2009 8:38PM
this DK in Icecrown, (near Shadow Vaults) was sooo OP that he kept ganking me and he was able to kill the guards too...
Zach Feb 10th 2009 9:50PM
You sure that wasn't Arthas?
Rawr Feb 10th 2009 7:23PM
Paladin is autowin in PvP. Not only retri, but even more HOLY!
Taladan Feb 10th 2009 7:39PM
DKs still beat us. While we need to stop doing damage for healing, DKs healing while hurting you.
lbizzle Feb 10th 2009 8:03PM
Agreed, this is difficult to take seriously coming from a confessed paladin.
Yes, DKs are (overly) powerful, but you completely ignore the paladins which are almost always present in the top DK comps.
Think Hpal-DK in 2v2, Hpal-Hunt-DK in 3v3 and and any combo in 5s. Any quality pvp player will share the surprise that paladins have continued to escape the nerf bat, while it has hit death knights relatively hard.
Mr Magoo Feb 10th 2009 8:09PM
Actually it is both of them.
Comparing pallys to DKs is like asking which machine gun is worse to fight when you are holding a pistol.
They both need the pvp nerf. Badly. I would say wait for 3.1.
If blizz don't do something with that patch considering what has been said so far on the topic, they need kicking.
Nick S Feb 10th 2009 9:49PM
I play a Holydin in dungeon blues, with a UDK in blues and greens. He's never played Arenas before this week. Guess how we fared, anyone?
Kadamon Feb 11th 2009 5:12AM
Speaking of which.
Watched a Holy Paladin take down a Blood Knight.
Funniest thing ever.
bendak Feb 10th 2009 7:23PM
They kind of ruin PVP for me.
My main problem with them is, it's way too easy for them to be good players. What I mean is... when you come across someone who is good at another class, you know its because they've played the class for years and are immensely experienced with it.
With death knights, it's barely been a few months and the ratio of skilled to unskilled players is VASTLY different than any other class. It's EASY to be a relatively good death knight, and if you are a skilled player already then you are damn near unstoppable as a death knight.
It's just way too easy for noobs with only a few weeks experience with a class to own face. It's just not right.. you can't do that with any other class.
Mondale Feb 10th 2009 7:31PM
Actually, I've found death knights to be rather easy to kill with my frost mage. The only thing they do that I find truly annoying is death grip, since a mage relies on distance to win. But all I need to do is just blink as soon as they death grip and they usually only get one hit on me, which is absorbed totally by my ice barrier.
I think the reason I am able to kill death knights so easily is because mages have such high burst damage. I can see how classes that have to grind out a fight with a DK might have a tougher time.
The classes I hate the most in pvp? RET PALLYS, shadow priests, warlocks and shammys.
-D Feb 10th 2009 7:36PM
I used to safety queue other battlegrounds to help avoid pugs. Now I do it to avoid DK heavy pugs. Truth.
Especially in SoTA where several DKs casting Deathgrip can keep tanks from getting ANYWHERE.
Now that we're on the subject, Deathgrip pretty much screws over anyone who knows how to use terrain to their advantage. I hate fighting a DK when I'm playing my Hunter. Positioning is everything for a Hunter to succeed and they just take that away from me.
When I was doing dev work for a miniature gaming company we wrote "The Tenets of Good Game Design" .#1 Never design a spell, ability or effect that allows a player to move or control their opponent's miniatures.
So to me, Deathgrip is PURE 100% FAIL on the part of the devs. At the least it should NOT affect enemy players or vehicles. However it's fine for PVE.
Zul Feb 10th 2009 7:46PM
I pvp as a resto shaman and ms warrior so I wouldn't know... But what you say actually seems legit. It would really screw over casters (and hunters). Unless they are always out of range (which is not the case).
Solution make Deathgrip bring the DK to the player... charge more or less. Also nerf there self healing, WTF is that.
jbodar Feb 10th 2009 10:01PM
You are basically saying that every CC -- stun, snare, fear, mind control (!), knockback, sheep, etc. -- is "100% fail" as well. You can't just single out DG because it inconveniences ranged classes, as melees have to deal with the exact opposite effects. The question is whether PvP would be interesting if it was just damage vs healing.
I kinda think vehicles should be immune to all CC, but that might make them too unbalanced.
-D Feb 10th 2009 10:38PM
I would argue that positioning and skill in moving intelligently is far harder than spamming a snare and then circle strafing someone to death. But I still won't put Death Grip in the same class as other forms of CC because Death Grip moves the target. It's an entirely different dynamic that throws up a big middle finger to people who have learned how to move as part of their tactical repertoire.
woofdog Feb 11th 2009 1:04AM
"Now that we're on the subject, Deathgrip pretty much screws over anyone who knows how to use terrain to their advantage."
The spell is totally unbalanced and terrible for pvp; it unwrites pretty much all positioning tactics that existed previously. That, along with other issues noted here, clearly showcases a class that was only marginally vetted for pvp prior to release.
jbodar Feb 11th 2009 4:46AM
Since when do Fear and MC not move the target? Not only that, but you lose control of your actions for more than the 1 sec Death Grip "jump". FTR, I play both melee and caster, I just find your rules pretty arbitrary. New mechanics are not automatically bad just because they make us adapt.
0bsessions Feb 11th 2009 9:26AM
I have to agree with jbodar here. I find death grip relentlessly annoying, but it's by no means a broken ability. It's a very basic CC ability and a pretty logical counter to fear. Anyone crying about DG in PvP has probably not played many melee classes. Fear is a much more frustrating ability than DG is.
Kongo Feb 11th 2009 10:10AM
You can't Death Grip siege vehicles.