Are Death Knights autowin in PvP?
Here's a question I'm sure a lot of players have asked themselves when faced against those dreaded Death Knights. Critical QQ wrote an interesting post in his blog theorizing that the side with the most number of Death Knights will win. Think Ret Paladin during the first week or so of Patch 3.0. He posits that Death Knights are such a powerful PvP class that they tend to turn the tide of a battle. To a degree, it's actually true. The very first Arena Master was a Death Knight.
The blog post plays out several scenarios where Death Knights make a difference but doesn't get into too much detail. But the point he makes is clear, and some of you might have actually felt it whenever you played some Battlegrounds -- whichever side has the most Death Knights wins. I've never actually stopped to figure out the ratio of Death Knights in all my Battlegrounds games, but there's no question a Death Knight is a force to be reckoned with in PvP. But are they unbeatable?
The obvious answer, of course, is no. But they sure are damn hard to put down. Blizzard was aware of this and severely nerfed Unholy in Patch 3.0.8, cutting down the duration of Anti-Magic Zone, lowering the mitigation of Bone Shield and Icebound Fortitude, and putting an unnecessarily long cooldown on Shadow of Death as well as removed it from Arena play. The last change was needed, but the 15 minute cooldown is probably too long considering Blizzard also nerfed the duration to 25 seconds. They also toned down the class' burst damage somewhat, including the amazing Gargoyle talent.
The non-healer healing class
So how come Death Knights are still extremely powerful in PvP despite the mitigation nerfs? Have you ever fought a Death Knight and wondered to yourself why your health keeps getting low while theirs is getting high even after you've hit them with everything you've got? Something that's been overlooked for the most part in the spate of recent balance changes is the sheer awesomeness of Death Knight self-healing. Mitigation on separate cooldowns and a variety of self-heals make Death Knights one of the most resilient classes in the game.
As a baseline ability, Death Knights have Death Strike, a melee strike that heals them as long as they have stacks of diseases on their target. Once Death Knights have set up, it becomes very difficult to stop them because they'll wear you down while they pump themselves up. Then there's Death Pact, the legacy Warcraft III ability, that sacrifices an undead minion such as a ghoul or gargoyle in exchange for health. Note that Death Pact works off maximum health and not current health, which means it's an excellent ability to use when their pet is about to die.
Blood has access to Rune Tap, as well, which when improved can heal them for 20% of their health every 30 seconds. Prior to the nerf, the most popular PvP builds were a mix of Blood and Unholy which had access to frightening healing as well as mitigation. Blood / Unholy Death Knights will use either Scourge Strike or Death Strike depending on whether they need healing. Because both strikes use Unholy and Frost runes, this leaves a Blood rune or two for Rune Tap at a moment's notice. That's not even the best part. Rune Tap is off the GCD. Insane? Sure it is.
While not a popular build for PvP, some pick up talents like Bloodworms, Blood Aura, and Vampiric Blood, which add to self-healing. Vendetta is awesome for a continous grind -- not just for mobs, but in Battlegrounds PvP or Wintergrasp. Sure they'll need to land the killing blow to proc it, but they're Death Knights. Killing blows are second nature to them.
Now, although Unholy is still the PvP tree, it's now more common to complement it with Frost all the way up to Killing Machine. Players speccing Frost / Unholy pick up Lichborne along the way, which is an incredible anti-CC ability on a three minute cooldown. Aside from breaking Charm, Fear, and Sleep effects, it provides immunity to it for 15 seconds. Guess what? Just like Rune Tap, Lichborne is off the GCD, as well. Here's another Death Knight trick -- when under the effects of Lichborne, they can heal themselves with Death Coil. So you can add that to the list of effective self-heals.
Understand that these heals can tick for a lot. Death Strike can crit, which sometimes results in heals upwards of 5,000 hp. This means that while they're dealing damage, they're healing themselves at the same time. Because Unholy Presence cuts the GCD by .5 seconds, Death Knights can blow two Death Strikes in quick succession to heal themselves for a considerable amount. If they have a lot of diseases stacked, that's a lot of healing. Ten seconds later, they'll be able to do it again.
The best (or worst, if you're up against a Death Knight) part is, all of these heals are instant. None of them have a cast time. Rune Tap is an instant heal off the GCD on a thirty second cooldown. Death Strike is a heal that is part of an attack, usable twice in succession every ten seconds. Death Pact is instant on a three minute timer. Bloodworms just happen. All Death Knights will have access to Death Strike and Death Pact, while the others are talents. Instant, uninterruptible self-healing on one of the most devastating DPS classes is equal to PvP godhood.
The blog post plays out several scenarios where Death Knights make a difference but doesn't get into too much detail. But the point he makes is clear, and some of you might have actually felt it whenever you played some Battlegrounds -- whichever side has the most Death Knights wins. I've never actually stopped to figure out the ratio of Death Knights in all my Battlegrounds games, but there's no question a Death Knight is a force to be reckoned with in PvP. But are they unbeatable?
The obvious answer, of course, is no. But they sure are damn hard to put down. Blizzard was aware of this and severely nerfed Unholy in Patch 3.0.8, cutting down the duration of Anti-Magic Zone, lowering the mitigation of Bone Shield and Icebound Fortitude, and putting an unnecessarily long cooldown on Shadow of Death as well as removed it from Arena play. The last change was needed, but the 15 minute cooldown is probably too long considering Blizzard also nerfed the duration to 25 seconds. They also toned down the class' burst damage somewhat, including the amazing Gargoyle talent.
The non-healer healing class
So how come Death Knights are still extremely powerful in PvP despite the mitigation nerfs? Have you ever fought a Death Knight and wondered to yourself why your health keeps getting low while theirs is getting high even after you've hit them with everything you've got? Something that's been overlooked for the most part in the spate of recent balance changes is the sheer awesomeness of Death Knight self-healing. Mitigation on separate cooldowns and a variety of self-heals make Death Knights one of the most resilient classes in the game.
As a baseline ability, Death Knights have Death Strike, a melee strike that heals them as long as they have stacks of diseases on their target. Once Death Knights have set up, it becomes very difficult to stop them because they'll wear you down while they pump themselves up. Then there's Death Pact, the legacy Warcraft III ability, that sacrifices an undead minion such as a ghoul or gargoyle in exchange for health. Note that Death Pact works off maximum health and not current health, which means it's an excellent ability to use when their pet is about to die.
Blood has access to Rune Tap, as well, which when improved can heal them for 20% of their health every 30 seconds. Prior to the nerf, the most popular PvP builds were a mix of Blood and Unholy which had access to frightening healing as well as mitigation. Blood / Unholy Death Knights will use either Scourge Strike or Death Strike depending on whether they need healing. Because both strikes use Unholy and Frost runes, this leaves a Blood rune or two for Rune Tap at a moment's notice. That's not even the best part. Rune Tap is off the GCD. Insane? Sure it is.
While not a popular build for PvP, some pick up talents like Bloodworms, Blood Aura, and Vampiric Blood, which add to self-healing. Vendetta is awesome for a continous grind -- not just for mobs, but in Battlegrounds PvP or Wintergrasp. Sure they'll need to land the killing blow to proc it, but they're Death Knights. Killing blows are second nature to them.
Now, although Unholy is still the PvP tree, it's now more common to complement it with Frost all the way up to Killing Machine. Players speccing Frost / Unholy pick up Lichborne along the way, which is an incredible anti-CC ability on a three minute cooldown. Aside from breaking Charm, Fear, and Sleep effects, it provides immunity to it for 15 seconds. Guess what? Just like Rune Tap, Lichborne is off the GCD, as well. Here's another Death Knight trick -- when under the effects of Lichborne, they can heal themselves with Death Coil. So you can add that to the list of effective self-heals.
Understand that these heals can tick for a lot. Death Strike can crit, which sometimes results in heals upwards of 5,000 hp. This means that while they're dealing damage, they're healing themselves at the same time. Because Unholy Presence cuts the GCD by .5 seconds, Death Knights can blow two Death Strikes in quick succession to heal themselves for a considerable amount. If they have a lot of diseases stacked, that's a lot of healing. Ten seconds later, they'll be able to do it again.
The best (or worst, if you're up against a Death Knight) part is, all of these heals are instant. None of them have a cast time. Rune Tap is an instant heal off the GCD on a thirty second cooldown. Death Strike is a heal that is part of an attack, usable twice in succession every ten seconds. Death Pact is instant on a three minute timer. Bloodworms just happen. All Death Knights will have access to Death Strike and Death Pact, while the others are talents. Instant, uninterruptible self-healing on one of the most devastating DPS classes is equal to PvP godhood.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, PvP, Death Knight
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Reader Comments (Page 4 of 4)
Vix Feb 11th 2009 8:31AM
Hey guys. Just wanted to put my 2 cents in.
I play a dK in the arena with a pally. We win probably 80% of the time, and I think that the 20% we lose is because I'm still pretty much in questing greens.
I love my DK!!!
BL Feb 11th 2009 1:26PM
You must be a pretty awful player if you think DK's are autowin. My partner is a holy pali and I have a DK. We win perhaps half of our matches on a given week (we play between 150-200 matches a week). We are easily killed by double dps like mage/rogue or lock/dps. Hunter-lock give us fits, never been able to beat a one. We are not in greens either, we have mostly blues and some purples (I have 4 purples). And although I'm not the best pvp'er in arena, last 2 seasons was at mid 1700 rating on my warrior. I have a reasonable idea of how to play the game and arena since the 2nd day it came out.
There are tons of ways to counter us and we are surprised sometime s at the comps that beat us. I've been stunlocked completely out of the match while my healer dies. I've been burst down in double dps in the first 6 seconds of the game while my pali has been unable to heal me enough. My pali has been killed by a warrior while I was trying to take down their druid and when when it was just me and the druid, game over, druid pwned me.
If you think DK's are opd, you need to l2play. We have a lot of utility but skill and counter comps are the way to beat us.
Naix Feb 11th 2009 9:22AM
Death Knights are fine.
Nurf Mages/Shamans
jerzz80 Feb 11th 2009 9:23AM
DK and Pally to an extent have all but ruined PVP.
Self healing, plate wearing, OP Burst DPS with CC immunity is flat out garbage.
Death Grip is a joke. I laugh every time i see it in PVP. Its not even OP, its out of this World OP. No move dominates your toon like DG. Cant be avoided, cant see it coming, cant Trinket out of it. Just bend over and take the OP.
As for Pally's. Bubble is the main problem. Bubbled is meant to be a PVE emergency button. But is is ABUSED all the way to 2000 in the arena. Arena is generally a race of DPS and Heals. The bubble is a 10 sec. garantee the match will not end and everyones health on the Pally side will be reset back to 100%.
I laugh every time a Ret Pally, bubbles > heals himself > nukes me. I literally can do nothing but run.
Self healing, plate wearing, OP Burst DPS with CC immunity are the Death of PVP until nerfed. Plain and simple.
Valanar Feb 11th 2009 9:46AM
Blizzard has messed up their priorities a tad if you ask me.
I know it sounds cliche, but they should get a grasp on how MMOG's classically work, especially established MMOG's in which PVP played a large role, for example: Dark Age of Camelot, one of the best PVP games even today.
My point is: If a class has great offense, he will lack defense. If a class has a lot of utility (including crowd-control) then he will also be limited elsewhere, be it offense or defense.
Blizzard gave some classes: A- Good offense; B- Good defense and C- Utility, whereas other classes - such as the Shaman - have been stripped of most of their unique utilities (buffs through totems), do mediocre damage at best and have no survival skills whatsoever.
Paladins and Death Knights should be resilient. But their damage should be LOW.
Shamans (Enhancement and Elemental) have little to no survivability, but some utility, most of which is shared by other classes. They should have a high damage output.
Mages have a ton of utility abilities, crowd control and such. They survive through those skills, but are fragile otherwise. Their damage output - especially burst damage - may be too high for PVP at the moment.
Et cetera.
But I guess it makes sense that a very mobile class with near perfect immunity on a timer, self heals, instant heals, stuns and lots of utility also dishes out intense amount of damage...
/sarcasm
falcon Feb 11th 2009 12:15PM
Turn evil > lichborne
You just sit and lol at a feared DK
JustSomeGuy Feb 11th 2009 12:50PM
Mages are still amazingly overpowered, they can kill DKs in some circumstances (especially if they get first attack- they can almost instakill anyone).
Aside from that, it's hard to say. The BG's I've been playing lately, the horde has been almost DK and Mage exclusively, because those two classes are far and away more overpowered than everyone else.
JustSomeGuy Feb 11th 2009 12:54PM
"I laugh every time a Ret Pally, bubbles > heals himself > nukes me. I literally can do nothing but run."
Maybe you should get some distance instead of laughing. Pally is horribly slow, and have no ranged attacks. That bubble doesn't last forever, and the pally only does half damage while bubbled.
Healing takes a long time... so that's a lot of distance you can be putting in, instead of pounding on his bubble and hoping it pops.
L2P.
Angelus Feb 11th 2009 2:07PM
My feral druid says Death Knights are fine, and taste just like everyone else.
Bouillestfu Feb 11th 2009 11:27PM
All I hear is QQ.
Rune tap is a talent. LichBorn is a talent. Blood Worms also. So on and so forth.
The only important heals you've mention that are available to all DKs are Death Pact and Death Strike. Everything else needs you spec into it. Now ya it's easy to say double DS = Win = Profit. But DeathStrike deals such little damage that it's more of a "WTF I'M ABOUT TO DIE" ability. Other than that Frost DKs will use Howling Blast and Frost Strikes and Unholy DKs will more often use Scourge Strike in PvP simply because of the burst damage it offers. I've used Howling Blast more often then Death Strike and will use Death Pact before anything.
In my 2v2 arena I'm teamed with a hunter and when ever someone sees me low health it sort of distracts them away from a deterranced hunter on to me, thats when I pop Death Pact and fight on. If you stay full health anyone goes towards the squishiest class available (not the DK).
Dist Feb 13th 2009 1:18AM
Im sorry guys.
Playing my disc spec in PvP lets me especially kill 3 sorts of pvpers: Paladins, Rogues and DKs.
Dks have a marginal chance over a priest, but truth be told; They are sworn enemies, and more often than not; the light wins.
George Feb 17th 2009 5:22PM
I own DKs on my feral druid. He is specced into tanking but most of the time they're piece of cake.
rlivi Feb 12th 2009 10:05PM
Ok so first of all lets get this straight every good team consists of 2 good players, what class you are doesnt win you the match. Also mages aren't op just get a shaman to rip us to shreads or do one of the silence spells and if you don't have a silence just laugh when he/she runs outta mana and is QQ'ing. Dk's are amazing at pve and ok at pvp and like i said it's all relative to player skill.
Dékay Feb 22nd 2009 2:56PM
A very vague and incorrect post that gets more and more biased. Someone was kind enough to link me this on the EU forums, my reply is here:
http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=8136624988&postId=81356833738&sid=1#12
bellzbub Mar 13th 2009 2:10PM
Ok i'm seriously sick of QQ you guys complain about dk's and pally's all the time but don't mind me for saying
Rogues = Invisible repeatedly and stun lock
^^^ that is teh truly OP thing in PvP yes death strike does heal DK's but imo you have a horrible DK attacking you if they are just spamming that when scourge strike can kill things twice as fast. Yes healing while attacking stucks but Rogues being able to kill you without you attacking seems more of an Overpowerment than anything Dk's you at least have a chance