Warsong Gulch revisited

It's a rather hefty post and should help a lot of players decide on what tactic to employ when running WSG premades (as you can't obviously expect PUG groups to follow any real strategy with coordination). Slorkuz explains that Warsong Gulch is a Battleground where team composition is critical, something that holds true here more than other Battlegrounds (or as in the case of Alterac Valley, not true at all). With such a small team, having no form of crowd control or healing can and usually ends in a loss.
Slorkuz proceeds to break down each popular tactic and breaks down what he finds as apparent weaknesses to each one. In the end he recommends a tactic I myself find rather effective (even when I'm in a PUG, which is to say almost always) -- control midfield. With one or two people to slow down the enemy flag carrier in your flag room, a couple of runners which usually consists of a healer and a class with improved mobility, the rest stay midfield and... kill things. Kind of the bastard love child of all the other tactics.
It's a pretty decent read, but it doesn't quite address the one concern I have about the Battleground. It's the only Battleground that can extend indefinitely. With Strand of the Ancients introducing the timer concept, a Battleground that can last for hours for minimal Honor and, worse, little to no reputation (more on that later), is an antiquated idea. Sure, Warsong Gulch was revised so that flag carriers are easily tracked, and a debuff is applied to the flag carrier -- Focused Assault after 10 minutes and Brutal Assault after 15 minutes. It's a great mechanic, really. So great that I extolled its virtue in a lengthy post last year.
As it turns out, it's actually not that great. Not when the timer for Strand of the Ancients makes it so that games never last for more than twenty minutes at the worst. First of all, ten minutes is a long time before the debuff is applied. Even then, this doesn't guarantee a capture. Sometimes, it even lengthens it, as flag carriers are killed over and over (the next person to pick up the flag within a certain period gets the debuff, as well). I know I said that people just need to learn to play in order for Warsong Gulch to work. But I'm sorry, people are stupid. Or to quote Tommy Lee Jones, "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it."
That means Warsong Gulch needs to be revised again. No, really. Because even though they no longer happen as often, games can still last an excruciatingly long time. In a new environment of Wrath where everything is fast and fun -- Strand of the Ancients, heroic instances, one boss raids -- Warsong Gulch is a dinosaur that can't keep up. So how do you solve a problem that's been there from the very beginning?
Personally, I think the debuffs are a great idea. They just take too long to take effect. Under the current milieu of fast and simple content, I don't think it's unreasonable to bring that timer down to three minutes. After three minutes, the flag carrier will get Focused Assault. After another three or even two minutes, Brutal Assault pops up. In a ten-person Battleground, that timer should be just about right.
Here's another idea that might work into that mix... after ten minutes of no flag captures, a new condition should pop up: the flag can be captured even when the opposing faction is holding your flag. This should turn the game into a frantic race to the finish. With a 10 minute timer on the condition, players should already have jostled into position to capture the flag. Oh, and it should allow ties if both carriers step on the capture point at the same time.
Lastly, and this is my biggest gripe about this Battleground... why is reputation gain for Warsong Outriders or the Silverwing Sentinels so freaking hard? With every faction rep being made easier to grind (gray mobs and low level quests giving full reputation gains, numerous daily quests, tabards, etc.), why hasn't Warsong Gulch or Arathi Basin, for that matter, been revised to give better reputation? I mean, come on, Blizzard! Give us something to do with those Marks of Honor. See, it just doesn't feel very good to fight for an hour or more in a losing game and those stupid Outriders don't even give you an A for effort.
So while Slorkuz gives some good advice for people who actually want to play the game, sadly the Battleground is designed such that it can drag on indefinitely when idiots (or even more sadly, evenly matched teams) are on the field. With most content being raised to a faster pace, Warsong Gulch needs a second look to be brought up to, er, speed.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Blizzard, PvP, Battlegrounds






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Gil Feb 11th 2009 6:26PM
I'm not sure how they should change Warsong but it needs some help. I think the buff idea is great but it's not quite enough. I still love playing Warsong sometimes, but my biggest issue has got to be the lack of rep. achieved. What's the point in playing Warsong if you aren't even rewarded with some reputation gains. If I want to grind honor I'll go play the other WG.
PS: isn't it "E" for effort :p
Mcdreamy Feb 11th 2009 6:53PM
I had a 49 twink healing priest early last year. Had a great time with him but WSG was the straw that broke the camel's back. I played a match that lasted over an hour and horde had no caps, so I got 0 bonus honor/rep. That day I went ding to 50.
Mike Feb 11th 2009 6:27PM
I think too much of the games integrity have already been sacrificed for the fast and dont like to think crowd. The best solution is too remove the WSG mark requirement for the turn in quest and leave WSG as is.
WSG is a very fun BG for organized players at 80 and the lower twink brackets.
On a related note, since AV marks are no longer required can we get a petition going to have the original AV reinstated?
SaintStryfe Feb 11th 2009 6:30PM
"Or to quote Tommy Lee Jones, "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it.""
Sorry to Nitpick, but it was Agent Kay who said that, not Tommy Lee Jones. Just like how Johnny Depp didn't complain about Rum, Capt. Jack Sparrow did.
That said, I fully agree with your conclusions. What would be great fun is rep-per-kill, or every 5 PKs=Rep. Boosting winning honor rep and granting loser rep would be nice, as would of course a turn-in (how about grinding Frostweave for a
Lemons Feb 11th 2009 7:13PM
Hate to nitpick...but...technically...Tommy Lee Jones DID say that as those were words that came out of his mouth.
SaintStryfe Feb 11th 2009 11:49PM
/facepalm
Reygle Feb 11th 2009 6:31PM
Healing and defenses have become far too powerful for Warsong Gulch to be fun on my server anymore.
Standard practice for alliance around here is all about a protection paladin or warrior running flag and 4 healers on them, with 2-3 dps classes just making sure the healers don't die.
The debuff doesn't even matter, as the -Prot- classes can take double damage and still survive 3 people on them easily.
AutumnBringer Feb 11th 2009 6:48PM
I know, the whole tough defensive class joined by healers to keep them alive and some DPS to defend them is really just something people do when they can't do any better and have to cheat at the game. Teamwork hax!!!!
VSUReaper Feb 12th 2009 4:13AM
Thats what I do.
GO GO 30k prot warrior and lets kill everything in my path on the way to the flag cap.
Zeplar Feb 11th 2009 6:33PM
I thought I read something about turning in marks of honor for rep in 3.1.
T-Dogg Feb 11th 2009 6:48PM
I think that was in the spoof patch notes that were posted by someone.
Gulbrandt Feb 11th 2009 6:53PM
I think the battleground needs a Sudden Death clause. If the battleground goes 15 minutes without a win, first side to capture the flag wins/gets a point--regardless of whether their own flag is being held. If it results in a tie, then the next capture wins the game.
Or, just remove the stipulation of having to return your own flag to base. Every time you make it back to the base with the other team's base, it counts as a point.
Dan Feb 11th 2009 9:26PM
But....
Then there would be lots of ties in WSG. If this is implemented the flag carriers are going to sit on the cap point until 5 mins or whatever has elapsed. There will be lots of 3pts-3pts games.
What happens then???
Savant Feb 11th 2009 10:34PM
Just remove the need to have your flag in base *and* make it so that the team that caps FIRST (when both flags are out) will get the point, and then the other flag disappears. So both teams would only be able to get the point if they somehow capped at exactly the same moment. (Or in the rare case when both teams cap at the exact same time for the 3rd point, it could nullify both caps and force the teams to try again.)
This is where slowing the flag carrier would really pay off, and hiding the flag would never happen again.
Tarin Feb 11th 2009 7:00PM
It really does need something to control the time. Maybe a Reinforcement cap like AV.
zetathran Feb 11th 2009 7:05PM
I desperatly want "Conqueror" for my Blood Elf. As it currently stands, it's nearly an impossible goal given the rep rewards. If Blizzard wanted the Conqueror/Justicar to truely not be Feats of Strength, they definitly should be somewhat easier to obtain.
Lemons Feb 11th 2009 7:10PM
All the ingredients you need to whip up one extra long WSG match is a semi-premade consisting of one tank, and his cadre of 2-4 healers.
It's even worse in wrath because tanks aren't just tanks anymore, and an epiced tank is also quite good at dealing damage. This means that instead of dps coming in a few at and eventually piling up on the tank, they come in a get demolished (provided there is no heals on the dps, which for some reason there nevers seems to be).
This is not fun for anyone but the annoying tank and his discipleship. Finally after 10 mins you maybe have a chance to take the tank out. This should definitely be cut down (like the article said), because no one likes turtleing, and it's really a lose/lose situation when it happens.
Also in order to keep up with the fast pace of pvp I think the the trinket cd should be cut to 1 min 30 secs. This game has turned into nothing more than a flurry of stuns and fears and every other possible type of cc you can think of, and I hate being stunlockable/fear-chainable for a whole 2 mins after I pop my trink, it's really just annoying at this point.
Azhariel Feb 11th 2009 7:18PM
Totally agree. WSG can be the best BG for me, when it finishes under 20min.. It feels like a simplified EotS, and better. Unfortunately, time is of the essence..
Rochmoninoff Feb 11th 2009 7:49PM
You want it fast?
Just allow scoring whether your own flag has been captured or not.
It would run kind of like a 2-flag version of EotS, but I guarantee you it would be fast.
Forget the debuffs etc.
Jeff Feb 11th 2009 8:58PM
^ This.
It would change every strategy out there about WSG and make it, dare I say, fun.
Maybe there could be a score/rep bonus for keeping control of your own flag while capturing the enemy's.
I understand the people who want to stick with the familiar, but I've been in way too many WSG turtles to guarantee that I will never wax nostalgic over the current setup.