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All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsForum post of the day: Great idea, poor implementation
by Amanda Dean 
Feb 13th 2009 at 11:21AM
I'm still moderately excited for dual specs on my level 80 characters, it should be handy for switching between raids/instances and dailies. Cvarto of Proudmore began a thread about poor implementation about only allowing level 80 characters to use this feature. He fears that players will level as a single spec and have to relearn the other options for their class once they hit level 80.GC's reasoning is that MMOs are overwhelming for new players to learn without working with two specializations. Cvarto contends that it still more difficult to learn a completely new aspect of the game, such as tanking, at level 80. I'd like to add that most players have little patience for inexperienced tanks and healers at max level.
I'm kind of disheartened about GC's news that dual specs will require max level. Sounds like business as usual, respecs will still be a royal pain in the rear for up and coming tanks and healers. I was fine leveling my Death Knight and my Druid, but Shaman was downright painful. I was constantly switching between resto to heal instances and back to elemental to grind quests.
Zarhym assured the OP that expanding the level range that can use dual specs is still an option for the future. Some suggested allowing dual spec beginning at level 55. It never occurred to me that there would be a level requirement for this feature.
Do you believe the dual spec feature maintains utility with the max level requirement?
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Leveling, Talents, Forums, Forum Post of the Day
Reader Comments (Page 2 of 10)
percinho Feb 13th 2009 1:04PM
Duel Spec is used for PvP. ;-)
Rob Feb 13th 2009 11:29AM
For us players, something is better than nothing. But yeah I really wonder about their logic sometimes. It makes so much sense for hybrids to have two specs while leveling, and to be able to shift between them. Sure it will require a visit to a capital city, but its better than forking over cash and pain to redo your spec to do dungeons while leveling. It really seems that blizz has kinda given up on everything that isn't northend related, and just assumes that everyone will solo play until 70 or 80.
On a related note, I'm having fun going back and doing outland instances solo for achievement. These are not a cakewalk to me right now, I did crypts last night and it took an hour even skipping half the trash (only two bosses too). Was quite the challenge. My guess is that as gear improves I'll be able to do 70 instances and 70 heroics solo.
Dban Feb 13th 2009 11:30AM
level requirements for this feature are idiotic. New players won't be able to afford it so why would it 'overwhelm' them. And certainly those of us lvling alts will somehow be able to handle the thought of respecing conveniently
zappo Feb 13th 2009 11:47AM
Actually that's a good point. If it costs 1000g or so, then this pretty much bars people from accidentally stumbling on this and ending up confused. If I were new, I'd just assume that it was something I'd want when I was able to afford it - obviously towards endgame because I certainly didn't see 1000g until 70.
Watcherzero Feb 13th 2009 11:33AM
Looks like blizzard are using this much desired feature as just another end game gold sink that you will have to fork out thousands of gold to buy the abailty to do.
darian Feb 13th 2009 1:08PM
I suppose it's a gold sink, but at least you're getting something functionally worthwhile for it.
Different icons on Arcane Intellect? *That* is a true gold sink.
saint242 Feb 13th 2009 11:30AM
Most people I know, after trying to level as a healer or a tank, often give up part way to 80 and respec to DPS. I can't count the number of people I've seen moaning about how hard it is to level a Holy Paladin or Priest, or Resto Druid... well no kidding!
Is tanking or healing at level 40 really anything like tanking or healing at level 80 anyway? By the time you reach the level cap, you have so many more abilities, spells and variety of tactics, than you do when leveling.
I don't think it's unreasonable for dual spec to wait until level 80. While it would be nice to have a second spec in order to do low level instances "the right way" most of these instances are also easy enough that you don't have to be properly specced in order to fill a role.
Robert M Feb 13th 2009 12:04PM
The actual spells you use are different, but the mechanics involved are skill based.
Being a good healer is more than looking at bars and casting spell x. There's a certain skillset that comes with being a healer or tank that isn't just learned the minute you hit 80 grab some gear and step into a heroic/raid.
With that said, I will agree that you are partly right. One of the most annoying things are the elemental shaman/balance druids/shadow priests that think they cant heal a fjucking instance.
The other night a PUG, yes a damn PUG, 4 manned VH with a shadow priest healer because he knew what the hell he was doing.
Though holy pallies are a different story, every other hybrid spec does not need dual specs until lvl 80 anyway. All the warrior classes can tank, as can rets and feral druids.
I do think it's a stupid mechanic not to offer the dual specs earlier, but as far as needing them, no class really needs a second spec to level at a decent pace except the holy paladin.
Jeffy Feb 13th 2009 12:14PM
I agree with you on some points.
I leveled as a prot pali from 1-77 (switching to retloo to finish soloing) but I had a druid and warlock friend and we'd always group. Obviously that's the core of any group and we chose that to get easy leveling groups. Even in Outlands, I was still able to solo quests as prot, despite taking a little longer, but I would have loved to switch to ret when I solo and prot back to when I played with friends.
I understand the max level thing but I've never healed before and I have Naxx25 healer gear (that no one wanted), so I'd like to be able to heal if I get bored of tanking. If I had dual spec whilst leveling, I would have some experience in doing so. Not having healed before, healing a heroic is no doubt an intimidating aspect, especially if we wipe because of me. I'd like dual specs to be available at a lower level to accommodate such aspects that require experience to be able to do.
It's kind of like the job you want where you need 5 years experience and there's no way for you to get any experience because everyone relies upon experience.
darian Feb 13th 2009 1:05PM
Except you can get the experience you need. No one says your first shot at healing has to happen in a Heroic.
If you're worried about your performance, heal normal Nexus. No one's going to begrudge a 25-man Naxx geared healer the opportunity, no matter how inexperienced you are. If you fall asleep doing that, try regular Violet Hold. If you can manage that without problems try the level 80 instances on normal. If Halls of Lightning or Stone don't bother you in the slightest then you have nothing to worry about and can try a Heroic.
You can get the experience you need easily, you just have to settle for running instances that won't net you any reward *except* for experience.
Sarakin Feb 13th 2009 11:33AM
The 80 level require seems ok to me. Allthough I'm not a huge fan of dual specs to begin with. It always seemed to me (and while I'm new to WoW I've been doing some reading for a little while) that talents are supposed to be a kind of character customization.
Doesn't making it so you can switch between two specs instantly kind of ruin this thinking? Yes i understand people already switch because they need to heal or whatever the case may be but isn't the whole point that they shouldn't have to? Ideally there should be a bunch of people of each spec ready to do their job.
That's just my opinion
native Feb 13th 2009 11:32AM
I was really looking forward to being able to do this prior to 80. At 77 now so it won't really be relevant for me but the issue I have with this being a "max level" thing is this; I really like to hang out in the LFG channel while I'm levling and the number of "Need healer for ____" you see come across is astounding. Sometimes I don't feel like leveling as a feral druid and would enjoy healing as resto which I've done before a fair amount.
I was very excited about this since I thought it would provide a way to spice up your levling by mixing in some healing when you need a break or are in the mood, but it turns out that for the moment the dual specs will be completely irrelevtent to all levling characters.
Oh well.
Sayce Feb 13th 2009 11:32AM
My biggest issue with this is that it limits the very flexibility that is the whole goal of dual specs. I'm in a guild that is very alt friendly. A lot of that is because we like to have the flexibility to have an individual guild member be able to fill whatever role is needed at the time. Part of the problem is that we end up with groups of alts at various levels without the right supporting roles. We end up with 4 or 5 people at the same level, all leveling in a DPS role, so they can't really group together to complete group quests or dungeons without respeccing.
We don't just need this flexibility at 80. We need it earlier. Not just so that we can learn the various specs we want to play... but also so that we can support the people we play with.
And what happens the next time they raise the level cap? Will we lose the ability to Dual Spec then get it back at 90? I know they aren't looking to raise the level cap again soon unless they feel forced to do so... but what makes 80 the correct choice? Is that just what the wheel of morality landed upon?
IncubusHead Feb 13th 2009 11:33AM
Dual spec should be level 80 only. period.
Do you know anyone who is not max level who maintains 2 sets of gear? Neither do I. End of Argument.
percinho Feb 13th 2009 11:45AM
I'm percinho, nice to meet you. Now you do know someone, let's re-open that argument.
Small casual guilds with lower level alts who want to have flexibility in raids. Our guild has a suite of chacaters in the 40s and one in the 60s and would like to be able to switch roles for druids or priests so we can fill a five-man raid, meaning this would be extremly useful for us.
Why should this only be open to 80s? No-one's explained that to me yet. The game before 80 is as valid as the game after it.
Cetha Feb 13th 2009 11:45AM
yes i do know someone who maintains multiple sets of gear while leveling-me.
I am really dissappointed in this change as i was waiting on levelling my druid, shammy, pally, and priest for dual-specs so that I could quest with one build, and heal instance runs w/out having to respec every time, which gets really expensive when you have so many toons.
I can't really imagine what the disadvantage would be to having it be available earlier, and I hope they resconsider this choice before implenting it.
Hell, even my hunter kept a second set of gear while levelling for when I decided to change specs on him, when I get bored of one.
Jardal Feb 13th 2009 11:49AM
Maybe that's because it costs too much to respec before level cap?
Jamesisgreat Feb 13th 2009 11:52AM
Feral druids for one - always handy to have a tank set with you just in case....
Psnack Feb 13th 2009 11:53AM
I do, and I've meet plenty of other players who do.
Most people I've meet who maintained more than one set of gear at 70 continued to do so while leveling to 80. My level leveling-in-Northrend feral druid is currently maintaining a cat set, bear set and caster set. I also know that I'm not the only DK who started collecting and maintaining a tanking set as soon I stepped foot in Outland.
evankimori Feb 13th 2009 11:53AM
I know people who do. I did it when I was levelling so that I don't end up at level cap, wanting to heal/dps/be opposite from my levelling spec and be sans-gear with no idea what I was doing ontop of being badly geared for the role. Naked baby in the woods euphemism again.
The reason you keep some gear when you level is, and think about this: if you had 2 possible paladin healers, both holy but one's in ret gear and one is in proper caster gear BUT it's all quest greens and blues but you see that that player has done SOME legwork to get themselves prepared. I don't know about you but I'd take the half-geared player as compared to someone who doesn't even have an ounce of gear pertaining to the spec. So your statement there isn't too intelligent. You don't wait till 70/80 to start gathering gear for a spec. You do it while you level.