The Care and Feeding of Warriors: Dual spec madness
Dual specs. What will they mean for warriors?The short answer is, we'll all have two specs. However, I'm fairly sure if I try and stop there and go get a sandwich that Dan will come to my house with an army of trained marmosets. I don't want that, you don't want that, and Dan doesn't like to travel with the marmosets, so let's just spare everyone the trauma.
It is my opinion that when dual specs are implemented, almost all warriors will be expected to spec prot for one of their specs. We don't really have a tank shortage anymore with tanking generally more fun for everyone and there being four classes that can do it, but since warriors have one tanking tree and two dps trees, it's unlikely (possible, but unlikely) that we'll see a lot of deep arms/deep fury dual specs. Those of us with more than one warrior might try this on one of them, mind you.
Of course this is all complicated by the state of warrior talent trees at the moment. Since protection is one of our strongest talent trees for both PvE and PvP content and arms is underperforming in both, it changes what specs you might select. I'm going into this analysis of the feature and its uses assuming that arms will be buffed to be a valid option for a dual spec.
Protection/Fury is kind of a no-brainer at this point. Both specs work pretty well, and almost all warriors have a DPS set and a tanking set anyway. The only real issue is in the minutia of gearing: does the warrior have a suitable pair of 2h weapons? Gear is the real limiting factor in any and all uses of dual spec for warriors, with glyphs also being an issue, but since glyphs will change with the talents (after the initial cost) you'll at least only have to assemble your 'off spec' glyphs the one time, while you'll have to update your gear as you progress. This won't be terribly onerous, because you were probably going to assemble an off-set for tanking or DPS anyway.
Sadly, Protection/Arms doesn't seem as likely in PvE. Arms is underperforming, but I said that I would ignore that for the purposes of this analysis. Assuming that PvE arms catches up to fury in damage (honestly, I don't think it can without heavy work but that's for another day) arms offers some solid debuffs but none of them require a warrior anymore, other classes can provide them, and fury just has more visual oomph. Still, a PvE Prot/PvP Arms or even PvP Prot/PvP Arms set up makes sense.
Right now, with the state of warrior PvP being what it is (pretty bad) and with dual speccing still requiring an inscription-made item and several players to accomplish, I expect we'll see either prot/fury where the prot spec is used as a PvP spec or prot/arms with both specs used as PvP specs depending on where the milieu is. I've found arms can still be wildly successful in BG's and Wintergrasp (and by the way, I'm not happy that you people have somehow worked black magic to get me to participate in Wintergrasp) but when I arena I tend to go prot or a specific fury build with Heroic Fury and Furious Attacks in it. These are not talents I use in PvE, which does lead me inexorably to the idea that some players will actually spec PvE and PvP within the same spec. If I were more serious about arenas, I would probably spec fury (PvE) and fury (PvP) myself.
It may seem ridiculous to consider having two nearly identical specs, but we all know that a few talent changes can make a spec perform entirely differently. Just cobbling together two different prot specs, we can see how this would perform differently than this. Looking over both you can still see some glaring omissions (Imp Bloodrage, Imp Disciplines) that you might really want in some situations but not need in another. To use another example, this is a fury build aimed at DPS in PvE (it's the one I use, as my gear supplies all the expertise I need) whereas with the change of three talent points it becomes much more focused on mobility and debuffing opposing players with Furious Attacks. You could change it more by working Enrage back into the talent selection but with the current state of burst in PvP, if you're getting hit a lot you'll probably be dead before you can use it. YMMV, of course.
I wouldn't be surprised at all to see warriors with a grinding/heroic tanking talent spec and a raid boss tanking spec, or a PvE arms/PvP arms tree. It cuts down on the gear selection you'll need to make, for one thing. It won't last forever in the case of PvP/PvE specs... eventually Blizzard will find a way to make resilience gear work again, and then we'll see you with a full PvP set unless you PvP prot, in which case I expect tanking gear will still suffice with its gobs of stamina and defense. The main weakness of a warrior in PvP is magic, and prot's about as well suited to deal with magic damage as any warrior tree could possibly be with spell reflection. (Yes, any warrior spec can use SR, but prot usually has the shield right out and doesn't have to run a macro.) Warriors tend to go the extra mile in their talent selections, ruthlessly pruning away until they find the right bonsai for the situation, and the ability to choose between specs means that you'll definitey expect to see at least a few who have a job they really like to come up with ways to use this situation to their benefit. Let's face it: we all know some warriors who just aren't very good tanks, or who underperform as DPS, but who excel at their chosen task. Just because dual specs gives you the ability to more easily put a petticoat on a hippopotamus doesn't mean you have to.
In fact, this is something I worry about. We all know that in raiding we generally use more tanks on trash than on bosses and some boss fights require multiple tanks, while others require one or two at most. With dual specs, the pressure for warriors will be to have a tanking spec and a DPS spec, just because that's basically what a warrior can do in a raid, tank or DPS. Raid leaders tend to try and squeeze maximum benefit out of each player for the raid, it's their job. Raiding warriors will have to expect a certain amount of pressure to select talent specs that can most easily be used to benefit the raid. You can't really fault them for this, and to a degree the presence of so many potential tanks in endgame will insulate warriors from this pressure to some extent. Since you can expect paladins and druids to be pressured to spec healing as their offspec to some degree (unless they're already a healer) it probably isn't a major concern, but it does exist and should be mentioned. If you intend to use dual specs to have your 'raiding' spec and your 'me time' spec, be sure your raid doesn't expect differently from you.
In the end, at least for warriors, dual specs doesn't have a lot of down sides. At worst you'll be expected to have a tanking spec and a DPS spec for raiding, which for a lot of us is more or less what we want dual specs for, so it's like being sternly told that you're expected to eat all that ice cream. For those of us who don't raid, it still opens up a lot of possibilities in terms of freedom to run BG's and arenas all day and then pop out and tank a heroic for a friend, or even to allow a dedicated tank who could care less about fury or arms to have a spec for heroics and normal five mans that he outgears and another for tanking harder-hitting bosses (especially as Ulduar opens up), or a Titan's Grip junkie like myself can easily shift three talent points around for the ultimate in min-maxing.
And finally, the ultimate pro of the entire dual spec system, the feature they could have rolled out all by itself and I think every warrior (indeed, anyone who respecs a lot) would have said yay.
Ghostcrawler: With the dual spec feature, we are going to allow players who respec to configure all their talents before they get saved. They will be able to allocate the points, then choose if they want to use that as their spec, rather than needing to carefully diagram out their talents ahead of time. This will allow players a little more freedom when deciding on the talents they want to pick and avoid costly mistakes.
I know there are addons that do this for you. Frankly, any time the game automates something so I don't have to have an addon to do it, I squeal in glee like rubber sheets with the aforementioned hippo rolling around on them. And yes, I'm going to end this column with the image of a hippo in a petticoat rolling around on rubber sheets. No need to thank me.
Next week, or maybe this weekend if there's enough demand, hit and expertise for DPS warriors. Unless Blizzard announces that Titan's Grip is going to be a baseline talent or something. I'd probably just pass out if that happened.
Filed under: Warrior, Analysis / Opinion, News items, PvP, Raiding, Bosses, Talents, (Warrior) The Care and Feeding of Warriors, Battlegrounds, Arena
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Reader Comments (Page 3 of 3)
Random Feb 14th 2009 5:41AM
---->If you don't enjoy a game, why would you play it?
If you don't enjoy a role, why would you play it?
Random Feb 14th 2009 5:45AM
---->If you don't enjoy a game why would you play it? If you don't enjoy a role, why would you play it?
Grao Feb 14th 2009 6:19AM
I can't wait to be able to spec 14/57 pve holy and 57/14 pve disc?
Reynald Feb 16th 2009 3:20AM
Well call me crazy but if dual spec hits I'll spec 2 prot specs. Other than tanking dungeons and raids there isn't much else I like about wow.
Up untill 60 in vanilla wow I was arms but since I dinged 60 I've been prot even to level to 70 and 80.
I doubt dual spec will change much about the shortage though. There just isn't that many people who actually enjoy tanking. And you can't change how someone feels about a role. But to be fair any 25 man atm only needs 2 tanks and a lot more healers. Though in my guild we always end up looking for dps to fill slots.
Thesaur Feb 17th 2009 10:56AM
I'm usually open to change especially if there is improvment that comes with it. But I'm failing to see what duel spec will do to improve the game, I might have missed that answer somewhere in the sea of replies. There is a shortage of tanks/healers because people are playing their toons the way THEY want to. DPS is the sweet nectar of this game to the majority of players, hence the shortage. So tell me how duel spec is going to change this? My toon is a DPS warrior and has been since I loaded the game. Currently, I'm extremely happy with the new and improved changes for the Fury tree, thank you Blizz. I've tried tanking and I can say, it's not for me, at least the entertainment value isn't. There's more to being a tank then just having the gear, a lot more. Please don't tell me that having duel spec (for warriors) is to "save the day" on a potential wipe...please don't say that. I have invested the time, gold and frustrations of being a Fury warrior over the last two years and I assure you, you do not want me to tank solely on the notion of my toon being a warrior because of the duel spec concept. With that, I HAVE to say it...Duel Spec is like a box of chocolates...you just don't know whatcha gonna get!
bradv10 Apr 14th 2009 8:29PM
I think that people were leaning towards only dps builds was because it was more attractive to both pvp and pve during a time when pvp gear was attractive and easy to aquire.
Dual specs would allow people to more freely switch between their raiding specific roles and their solo/fun roles.
It makes the game better by opening up more of it to people who would otherwise rather stick with one versatile spec then a dedicated spec that is only useful on raid nights.
it also makes characters more flexable for filling spots in groups. Not to mention helps with frustration over loot needs. If there are too many plate DPS in a group then i would probably take the oportunity to collect some gear for my off spec.
Spartank Mar 24th 2009 2:03PM
Thank god! I'm tired of having to respec from fury to prot and prot to fury for raiding and PvP. Right now I'm my guilds MT so I'm always doing lots of raids, but then me and my friends like to sit back and do some arenas every once in a while.
I'm glad I won't have to spend 100g every time I need to respec lol. >_<
Anatole Apr 2nd 2009 12:18AM
I don't mind the responsibility of serving a needed role in Raids/5-mans etc.
Warrior main will be Prot Tank for PVE / Fury DPS for PVE + PVP.
Paladin Alt will be Prot Tank or PVE / Holy Healing also for PVE.
My guild's casual although we do Raid a bit more than usual now, and I want to be as versatile and useful as possible. There are many situations that call for solid Paly's ease with AoE tanking, and many that call for a good old fashioned mobile Prot Warrior Abrhams A1.
Droog Apr 14th 2009 8:00AM
Hmm, Patch Day is here... this article (and an excellent one at that) was written a month ago now and expresses grave doubts about the Arms PVE spec. Has anything in the patch changed your assessment since the article was written?
I've been a Prot Warrior since the beginning of BC and my guild would like me to go Arms for my off spec. The logic is that it is better to have a Fury and an Arms rather than two Fury warriors.
Thoughts? Comments?
Droog
Hydraxis Realm
Adnan Apr 14th 2009 5:57PM
PuG tanking there most likely always be a tank shortage, I can not stand being in a PuG with one DPS DK or Hunter saying, "go go go", and "go" every 10 seconds when I am trying to explain the fight to a person who does not know it. I feel like just pulling the boss and letting the DPS die. IMO it's hardly the mechanics for tanking that is the problem, tanking is a bit harder, but not by much. It's the attitudes a tank has to put up with in a PuG 5 man, since usually the tank ends up leading them.
deveyus Apr 14th 2009 6:09PM
I've leveled a lock, a druid, and now a warrior. Leveled the lock ass affliction of course, I leveled the druid as resto, with recruit a friend (prot warrior friend? Good players? Can you say two manning instances all day!) and now I've leveled my warrior, as prot, since that first talent point, and it's blatantly obvious to me why you can't find healers and tanks to save your life, it's a PAIN to level as those specs, and a lot of people follow the 'level what you want to play at endgame' idea. I know, in all reality it's stupid, but a lot of people do it. Regardless of leveling as a bad leveling spec, the DPS specs level faster, this gives a feeling of success, people like success, and thusly play these classes that give them that feeling.
Lor Apr 14th 2009 8:00PM
/crosses fingers for quad spec in a later update..
lets see:
PVE fury, PVP arms, Raid tanking, Fury AOE trash clearing
bradv10 Apr 14th 2009 8:20PM
what about PVE Tank & PVProt dual spec? I plan on trying this one out ever since i heard all the good things about prot damage. But the differences in the builds prevented me from commiting to one or the other.
mousie' Apr 21st 2009 9:10PM
i dont liek ur discrimination against arms warriors
i have a raiding arms warrior and i get better DPS as arms with my betrayer than as fury with a betrayer/titansteel desrtroyer
this was before 3.1
now after 3.1 i gain charge in combat that gives my next mortal strike/slam a 100% crit chance, another 50% reduction in healing effects to =75% (50% from mortal strike + 50% form overpower during cast thing), they have removed the chance factor for overpower to proc off rend, i get an extra 10% armor pen from being in battle stance and the cooldown of my bladestorm has been reduced thanks to glyphs.
fury has had a direct 10% damage nerf.
imho u should look at arms more closely before deciding that the spec is completely useless