Lichborne: On Dual Specs for Death Knights

Welcome to this week's installment of Lichborne, where we're preparing to head further down the rabbit hole that is patch 3.1.
With the details about dual speccing becoming clearer, it's probably about time to start thinking about how it will affect Death Knights. We're probably a little luckier than many classes in that all of our trees are pretty solid for either tanking or DPS, but at the same time, some trees are better than others for certain roles, and you're definitely going to want to switch out some talent points for optimal performance in either role. Some Death Knights have actually been experimenting with "hybrid" DPS/Tank builds up until now, but with dual specs, it'll be a lot easier to just dedicate your time to one or another and go from there.
Essentially, There's 3 major ways I see most people going with dual specs: Tank/PvE DPS, Tank/PvP DPS, and PvE DPS/PvP DPS, depending on their interests. The complications will probably come in deciding which combination is right for you and your raid, and which trees to focus on.
Choosing Your Specs
Tank/PvE DPS is likely to be far and away the most popular combination. Those who prefer to DPS may still find situations where they're the only available tank or where they could be useful as an off-tank, while off-tanks may find they want to switch to their DPS spec for trash or bosses where their tanking isn't needed. This is also perfect for a raid DPSer who may need to tank to get together some 5-man runs on off-days.
Tank/PvP DPS is another one that's sure to show up. If you spend most of your raiding and grouping time tanking, you may find you don't really need a PvE DPS tree. Even a tank specced Death Knight can turn out respectable DPS, after all. So that second slot may be useful for PvP DPS. If you like to Battleground or Arena when you aren't tanking, the ability to switch over to to a spec that takes more PvP-oriented talents could be nice and convenient. Plus, your PvP DPS build might even suffice to do some decent PvE DPS damage in a pinch if needed.
PvP DPS/PvE DPS - If you really, absolutely abhor tanking, or if you're a PvE DPSer who enjoys a bit of PvP on the side, you may actually find a double DPS combination the way to go. It's not the way I'd go personally. I enjoy tanking a lot, plus I'm a proponent of being prepared and familiar with as many aspects of your class as possible, so I'll always want that tanking build waiting in the wings. If you're absolutely, positively sure that you'll always have someone to tank though, this may be worth it. Certainly, you should never underestimate the ability of a few talent points (Such as, say Endless Winter or Virulence) to make or break a PvP venture.
Choosing Your Trees
Once you have your roles picked out, it's time to start choosing which trees to use. It seems likely that it will be mostly wise to keep the same tree between your two choices. There's a couple reasons for this. First, there's the raid buffs. If you provide your raid with a certain aura or an AP or Haste buff via talents, people are going to notice if that switches off. If you're taking a dual spec with the intention of changing mid-raid, you'll probably want to take to your raid leadership and make sure your second build still has any group utility your raid will need to succeed.
The second reason is simple familiarity. While the playstyle of a Death Knight doesn't vary too severely from tree to tree, there are specific ability rotations for various specs and trees. Staying in the same tree means you have familiar abilities and can use familiar rotations. There will be tweaks even in the same tree, of course, but it's definitely more convenient not to be switching constantly between multiple similar-but-slightly-different playstyles.
That said, there's also arguments for switching trees between the specs. Take Blood, for example. You can actually get some pretty decent DPS out of a 51/20 Blood build, but when it comes time to tank, Blood is considered strictly 3rd-class in tanking. It has fewer AE threat options, and Vampiric Blood doesn't stack up well against Bone Shield or Unbreakable Armor. Likewise, a tank of any stripe may end up strongly considering a powerful dual wield DPS build of the 32/39 type. Even with repeated nerfs to Killing Machine, it seems to come out on top most of the time, and if you have two solid one-handers, you may just want to dive into being the best you can be.
Of course, if you want to stick with the same tree for both PvE DPS and Tanking, you probably can. Given current content, a solid build from any tree can at least hold their own. That may change in Ulduar, of course, but for now, it's not as much of an issue as it might be. The key is making sure you choose talents that are focused toward your role and finding a rotation that uses your runes and runic power as efficiently as possible.
On the Monkey Wrench that is 3.1
You may have noticed by now that I have talk somewhat in general terms this time around, and avoided linking builds. This is for a good reason, namely, that it's all going to change in 3.1. Even the builds I have linked will probably not look the same and will likely perform differently in 3.1. For example, we know that the Frost Tree will be switched up significantly. Not only should this affect PvP builds as Endless Winter gets moved to the shallow end of the tree, but I expect dual wielders may need to regroup after Killing Machine moves deeper. Likewise, Unholy's Gargoyle/Unholy Blight swap may cause Blood and Frost knights who take 21 in Unholy for the Gargoyle to reexamine their specs. Plus, there's sure to be more changes we don't yet know about.
So in short, while you can make some solid decisions now about which 2 roles you want your talent trees to fill, solid decisions on which trees and talents to take may need to wait until at least the 3.1 PTR. Change is coming, and we're going to need to take it all in before making an ultimate informed choice. Even the all-purpose Death Knights need some specialization, so dual speccing should be as useful for us as it is for anyone if applied right.
Filed under: Death Knight, (Death Knight) Lichborne, Patches, Analysis / Opinion, News items, Talents






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
NekoAli Feb 16th 2009 9:12AM
Well, I'm looking forward to it with my death knight, as well as my more hybrid characters. I've tanked successfully and well as Blood/Unholy and Blood/Frost in all the sub-level 80 dungeons except Halls of Stone at this point. Does anyone actually do that one? I was in once aside from runs to the Elder int he dungeon...
I do love the play style of Blood, but people tend to assume I'm just DPS when they hear my spec, so I'm more than happy to have a Frost spec for pure tanking when I hit 80, at which time the differences between specs will become more important than now.
Lolbro Feb 16th 2009 9:13AM
Uh, Blood can tank as well as the other trees in endgame content. If you're having trouble with aoe threat, you're not playing right.
I've blood tanked everything 10 and 25 except maly. 30 seconds every 60 seconds of Vampiric Blood is incredible.
Glad to see you've fallen into the ignorance that many others do - I have 33k hp but still get crap occasionally from people (like yourself) who don't understand that the trees are virtually identical for tanking.
Storm Feb 16th 2009 11:44AM
I've run all three trees in variation as a tank, and sure, Blood 'can' be just as good... but it is much much harder to pull off. I used Heroic Nexus as a baseline comparison in damage received, aggro control with the same group over three days (mobs and players), and all out damage.
What I found:
Blood = Excellent Offtank, Single Target when heals can be a little slow. I found Blood to be very good in supporting another tank through Blood Aura (that replaces/supplements Leader of the Pack), Glyphed Rune Tap, and Mark of Blood. (Excellent Vs Patchwerk as Offtank)
Frost = Excellent Single Target, Second best AoE (frontal only), with superior mitigation, kind of weak vs frost resistant bosses (Sapph, Kel) in threat production, but excellent vs magic users. (Excellent Vs Arachnid Quarter/4 Horsemen/Sapph)
Unholy = Excellent AoE (360 degrees), Adequate single target (sometimes not so ideal when yer really good at AoE tanking...) and the mitigation is ideal against same level mobs, not so much for single target raid bosses. (Excellent Vs Trash/Fearlina's Assistants/Zombie Chow/Kel'thuzad Phase 1)
All in all:
Frost = Single Target Boss Tank
Unholy = AoE Trash Tank
Blood = Single Target Off-tank.
muffin_of_chaos Feb 16th 2009 12:13PM
It just blows my mind how people don't understand the extreme overpowered nature of glyphed Vampiric Blood for tanking. It easily and far away makes Blood-specced Death Knights the best main tanks in the game. Given an uptime of 30 seconds out of every minute, combined with Icebound Fortitude for 15 seconds, for 45 seconds out of every minute blood DKs become harder to kill than all three other classes when only considering health, effective mitigation and flat damage reduction. Add in a trinket and/or Lichborn (in itself amazingly good), and those 15 seconds of only-about-as-squishy-as-the-other-tanks is reduced or extinguished. This is all ignoring the massive amounts (at *least* 10% higher than any other class) of mostly-undiminished total avoidance DKs have which is supposed to be what they're good at, and their needing the least amount of expertise of any of the other three classes (yes, even Paladins with their expertise glyph) due to their slow weapon speed and actually small number of extra attacks.
The fact that their AoE is lacking a bit compared to the other two specs doesn't even matter, given that glyphed Death and Decay is superior to either Warrior or Feral Druid aoe on its own anyway. You might want to spec Frost for the mere convenience of it in easy raids....
MightyMuffin Feb 16th 2009 3:35PM
@muffin_of_chaos
"Vampiric Blood easily and far away makes Blood-specced Death Knights the best main tanks in the game."
So...you're saying that a Blood-specced DK who is an adequate tank can beat ANY tank that is one of the best tanks in the game? If I remember...skills and a general understanding of your class/spec are the most important. Claiming things like this only show how ignorant and biased you are.
Blood may be a good tank spec for DKs, but no tank class is the #1 elite, must-have tank for main tanking raid content. You bring the guildie/pug player who plays the tank, not the class. If you're one of those blood DK tanks who thinks he's better than everyone else...chances are there's some warrior who'd pull aggro off of your (and I know plenty of warrior tanks willing to put you in your place), or some pally who will pwn you to no end. Maybe you should re-state it to say its the best DK tank spec, which is what the article and argument is really about, not the best Main Tank, which goes more into does the player (the living flesh and blood on the other side of the computers) have the necessary skills and understanding to play his class.
Oneiros Feb 16th 2009 8:45PM
I'm a recent convert to blood tanking and I have to say it really is fantastic. The sheer amount of bonus health I've managed to get out of my respec is ridiculous, especially as I've popped over to the unholy tree to pick up shadow of death. Blood has always suffered from the stigma of being the 'third rate tree' but anybody who's actually given it a proper chance will tell you that this is no longer the case.
Daelone Feb 16th 2009 9:20AM
This is great stuff to talk about, we'll need more talk once we get closer to the release. I have no doubt, we'll be hearing more on this.
Matchu Feb 16th 2009 9:28AM
My GL is blood spec'd for DK tanking and he's doing 25 man Naxx now with zero threat problems =/
Duck Knight Feb 16th 2009 9:28AM
Dual-Specs aren't even out yet and already I'm going to bet the first bug they'll be fixing in the PTR will be people going Unholy to summon a permanent Ghoul and then switching specs.
nbcaffeine Feb 16th 2009 9:52AM
Too bad when you respec it despawns any pets
oppai Feb 16th 2009 9:42AM
I would also disagree that blood is 3rd class when it comes to tanking. I've tanked all 10/25 man content as blood. I have 42k hp raid buffed, and can keep up vamp blood half the time giving me close to 50k hp and 35% increased healing. I don't see how boneshield / unbreakable armor could be better than 35% increased healing. I can also heal myself for 7-12k every 30 sec, and have no problems with threat generation. I also pull out 2k dps while tanking in raids. I don't see how that's 3rd class.
I feel as though we're still stuck in the early mentalities of wotlk, where frost is for tanking, unholy is dps, and blood is just spilloff. People that don't play DKs sometimes still don't even understand the difference between frost presence and frost spec.
On a side note...I think unholy's aura needs to be revamped to provide a more beneficial raid buff. Something that would actually encourage people to spec into it, and make raids want to take a DK from each tree.
extremesims Feb 16th 2009 9:46AM
I had hopes for the Lichborne series, but it looks like the author has fallen into the "parrot EJ" trap. I've tanked 25 man content on my poorly geared Blood DK just fine. Two of the MTs from one of the top 3 raiding guilds on our realm are Blood DKs.
L2P!
JALbert Feb 16th 2009 4:24PM
How is this parroting EJ? This is the first column where he gave Dual Wield the time of day, and nowhere on EJ do they abhor Blood Tanking.
Buck's DK tanking post outlines the pros and cons of all three trees pretty succinctly and doesn't judge any of them as inherently inferior, they just have their strengths and weaknesses. Blood has the worst AoE threat, and the best survivability (among other things). If one is more important to you than the other, you can switch your spec to adjust to your raid.
Aleksei Feb 16th 2009 9:57AM
I think there will be an interest in tank/tank builds too. Personally I have to respec several times a week depending on whether I'm tanking normally, or having to tank sarth 3d.
Gushon Feb 16th 2009 10:14AM
I Would actually go for 2 tanking specs - Magic tanking and Melee tanking maybe, or deep frost tanking with deep unholy or blood tanking.
not sure, depends what will be needed in Ulduar.
immen Feb 16th 2009 10:12AM
personaly im considering having 2 different pve dps specs. At least right now in raids there are some fights where its just way more beneficial to have the mobility damage that dw frost brings and on other fights well i can just put out more damage as blood.
Dunno what ulduar will bring but i like changing up my dps style every now and then anyways. Also i like being a loot whore when it comes to purple weapons.
omenscourge Feb 16th 2009 10:13AM
@ Daniel,
Thanks for linking my Hybrid spec. I fully agree that when dual specs become available this will go the way of the DoDo.
I also believe that if you are consistently filling one role, either tank or DPS, you should spec for it.
In my case I will MT or DPS within the same run on a regular basis so I willingly sacrifice some DPS and some mitigation to get as close to the best of both worlds as I can.
http://omenscourge.blogspot.com
Hyperplasia Feb 16th 2009 10:18AM
But what about glyphs?
Do we get to swap glyphs as we swap builds?
Fletch Feb 16th 2009 10:48AM
I think Blizzard have said that there will be a dual glyphs/dual gear system to match the dual specs
NekoAli Feb 16th 2009 11:25AM
There is a Q&A session about dual specs on the wow website now. Among other highlights is the fact that when you switch from one spec to another, you get separate glyph and action bar set ups. This is a little bad because if you want to use the same glyph in both your specs, you have to buy it twice. But it's much better than having to buy and keep glyph on you to switch out every time you change specs.
They are also adding in a gear swap system like itemrack (finally, sheesh). That won't be directly linked to the dual spec system though, so you are free to have several different outfits and switch between them freely, the way you can with itemrack, outfitter and other similar mods.
Oh, and for the record, back to my previous comment here, I never really had a problem tanking as Blood spec either. At least no more than I expected being a fairly new and inexperienced tank, since this is my highest level actual tanking class. People still tend to think of talent specs in the terms of absolute roles though. Blood/Unholy=DPS, Frost=Tank. Not true, but even among other DKs you see that bias. Any number of PUGs I was in the first thing asked was 'what spec are you? Okay, we'll have the lower level Frost DK tank instead of you then' when I'm geared up for tanking duties. Ah well.