Patch 5.3 interview with Ghostcrawler
Mystery of the Unborn Val'kyr
The latest patch 5.3 news
All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsA plea against vehicle combat
by Eliah Hecht 
Feb 17th 2009 at 6:00PM
Earlier today Blizzard posted a preview of Ulduar, the tier 8 raid coming up in patch 3.1 (which they promise will be on the PTRs "very soon"). Most of it looks really cool - 14 bosses, massive rooms, hard modes. However, there is one topic that Blizzard enthused about that really worries me: vehicle combat.
We've already seen some vehicle-based boss fights in Eregos (the final boss of the Oculus) and on the third phase of the Malygos fight. But Ulduar is, apparently, going to take it one step farther: there will be a vehicle-combat gauntlet leading up to the first boss, Flame Leviathan, and that boss itself will also be a vehicle fight, with players picking among three vehicles (Chopper, Demolisher, and Siege Engine) to command.
I know some people will disagree, but I also know I'm not alone here: I hate vehicle combat and would like to see it used as little as possible in the future. I play my character to play my character, not to use the clunky and boring abilities of a dragon, or a motorcycle, or whatever they shoe-horn me into next. I hate the Eregos fight so much that Oculus is the one heroic I flat-out refuse to do. Phase 3 of Malygos is better, but still definitely the least fun phase of the fight, in my opinion.
The good news, I guess, is that Daelo promises that after the Flame Leviathan fight there is "very little use of vehicles by players." I guess that's something. Blizzard, I know you guys are really excited about this cool new vehicle technology, and it was fun for quests, but for raids, I really think it's the wrong way to go. Please let us continue to play our characters; I didn't sign up to drive seige vehicles, and I don't appreciate being forced to do so in order to do Ulduar.
Filed under: Patches, Analysis / Opinion, Raiding
Reader Comments (Page 2 of 13)
DanH Feb 18th 2009 7:07AM
"So, the argument against vehicles is "aww, but I want to do the exact same thing I've been doing for the past 80 levels all the time, with no breaks or variety?""
In a word. Yes.
I play RPGs (of the computerized variety) because I want to create, progress and develop a character. Anything that overwrites that character defeats, for me, the entire point of playing an RPG.
If I want variety, I will **roll another character** or respec and try a different party role. Video game designers *in general* need to learn that "variety" should not mean "overwriting your core gameplay".
bundee Mar 11th 2009 11:20AM
Wait.... I thought raiders were all about skills and PVPers were welfare scrubs who sucked at this game...
kidandroid Feb 17th 2009 6:05PM
QQ Moar please.
Guido666 Feb 17th 2009 6:31PM
I agree. People seem to forget so quickly that they just complained 5 min ago about how boring everything else was. WoWInsider has posts all the time about how they need to make playing [insert class/role/boss fight here] more interesting.
Blizzard is trying to make some things different. Some people will like it, some will not.
Some things are always going to be boring for some. Every try tanking Curator? Or healing Gothik The Harvester? Or DPSing Four Horseman? They all amount to "stand there and button mash".
muffin_of_chaos Feb 17th 2009 6:44PM
Signed as well.
Sorry, but...when all classes/specs are equal and only our ability as players matters it adds an element of "you aren't just your stats and gear." I enjoy the fact that my character is suddenly in control of new weapons and methods of transportation that makes more sense to use in given encounters, it makes it feel slightly more realistic.
Docp Feb 17th 2009 6:50PM
Exactly, when you're with 24 other people the chances are at some point youre probably going to have to grit your teeth at some point and just play along as they get to do something they enjoy or find challenging, just like there'll be fights where they sit bored and you're having a fun time, that's part of the spirit of multiplayer games.
Personally I love vehicle sections in all their forms, it's nice taking a break from my character which I play for upto eight hours a day and it's also pretty interesting know there's going to be some fights where you will never be able to outgear the fight.
By all accounts 1/14th of a raid is not much at all and nothing to complain about really, especially when half your raid is probably looking forward to the vehicle events.
Tristrix Feb 17th 2009 6:05PM
I've gotta /sign this. I felt the same way about Oculus. I spend 80 levels and countless hours getting my paladin where she is, and I'm really proud of her. I think I built a pretty damn good toon. Then I get into that fight and I might as well be a level 1 for all the good all that work has done me. Maybe that sounds a little whiny... maybe it IS a little whiny... but that's just the impression I'm left with.
fishboy1111 Feb 17th 2009 6:54PM
You do realize that GC said that the vehicles in Ulduar will scale with your gear right?
Mattimus Feb 17th 2009 6:57PM
To be fair, I find my Paladin has an increased chance of survival if my drake dies. Instead of plummeting to my death, I can bubble and run down the middle into the portal so I don't have to eat repair costs.
That said, I think the entrance to Ulduar sounds awesome. I doubt that the Flame Leviathan will be little more than a loot pinata, and the experience of the vehicles will be more fun than challenging. The first boss of any dungeon is not going to be as difficult as a penultimate encounter such as Malygos, so I fully encourage people to just have fun with it. You'll have 13 other bosses to play your toon against.
VSUReaper Feb 17th 2009 7:07PM
Heres my thing about the vehicles, other than what Tristrix said: my custom UI doesnt support them. Either its the way its set up, or the mods I run, but when ever I get in a vehicle, my abilities are scattered and mixed up with my tanking abilities, if I have to build up combo points, I cant see them (even though its supposed to show them), and sometimes, I just plain cant steer: neither the mouse or the WASD keys will change the direction of my toon.
I have no problems with other vehicle style mounts/interfaces (chopper/mammoths) but as soon as you introduce a new set of abilities, it all goes down the drain.
But the main reason why I agree with Tristrix is that I worked my ass off to learn how to be a good tank, then I get in a vehicle where all that work doesn't show? No ty, I want to look at more demon/undead/titan crotch, as disgusting as it might be. Thats why I rolled prot.
Thomas Prescott Feb 17th 2009 7:28PM
@VSUReaper
Blizzard doesn't officially support UI addons. If they have a fight that requires specific UI elements found in the Blizzard UI and your UI is unable to show or replicate those features its not their issue. Either disable your addons before the fight (perfectly doable) or fix your addons so they work properly during that fight.
VSUReaper Feb 17th 2009 10:44PM
@ Thomas Prescott
Then please explain the addon button in the bottom left hand of the character selection screen. Please explain the fact that they have an entire website (seen here http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/board.html?forumId=11114&sid=1) where they basically explain how to set up your mods and such so you dont break the TOS and EULA.
I will admit that the forum page focuses alot on script commands (macros) but they also talk alot about how to fix buggy mods and find the really good ones.
So yeah, they dont "officially support them", but they also dont say you cant use them. They basically designed the game's code around being flexible enough to be altered with mods.
(BTW, not trying to sound like a smart ass -just my POV)
Thomas Prescott Feb 18th 2009 12:37AM
VSU
UI addons aren't illegal and they do not violate the ToS or EULA. What I am trying to say is that it isn't Blizzard's fault that a UI is broken, and they don't (nor should they) create encounters because of this.
jbodar Feb 18th 2009 1:58AM
Dominos has 0 problems with vehicle UI, as far as I've seen. Haven't done Malygos or anything, but Aces High, Wyrmrest daily, etc. all work as they're supposed to.
Maybe it's the addon.
Nokturnus Feb 18th 2009 8:38AM
@VSUReaper
It might not be your case, but this helped in most cases of problems with vehicles in UI i heard of:
Check your bar-mod settings for something called 'Posses Bar' or similiar and allow it on your Bar1 (maybe also other ones, but No1 should be enough)
Also, button for leaving the vehicle is first in Class Bar, if you need to keep that one disabled, use simple macro with '/run VehicleExit() ' to replace it.
Baldy Feb 17th 2009 6:13PM
Blizz also stated that the vehicles in Ulduar will scale with your gear level, so the better gear you have, the better your vehicles will be...
Dhryke Feb 17th 2009 6:06PM
I am in total agreement Eliah.
Mecivious Feb 17th 2009 6:05PM
Agreed.
It may add a little spice to the game...but the way it has been implemented so far makes me QQ. I can't speak for everyone...but I know that on my sever H Occulus is the least popular instance based completely on the last boss.
Mooghoul Feb 17th 2009 6:59PM
One big difference between the proposed Uludar fight and Maly/Oculus is Uludar will be fought on a 2D plane whereas Maly/Oculus is fought on a 3D plane.
Tell people they only have to move forward, back, left and right and people don't struggle too much. Throw in up, down and ask people to think about their location in a tri-dimensional space and they drool for a few seconds before facerolling themselves outside AOE heals into Maly's storm/Oculus orbs.
The last 50% of Kael in MgT shouldn't be hard. Yet some people just couldn't avoid the orbs, and only after many attempts did it click.
mayah Feb 17th 2009 6:05PM
couldnt agree more