WoW botter tells all part 2

Yes, absolutely. Counting up, I had eight max-level characters in WoW. I hand leveled someone through all the new content first (whoever my main was at the time) and the rest were mainly botted up, including my DK (no, Outland quests aren't that fun.) Most of these were created to play with friends on other servers or test the class out in PVP and Arenas. I was always content with playing a Healer in PVE -- yet another reason to have a bot on the side to bring in some cash.
When you botted, was it primarily AFK, non-AFK or a mixture of both?
Generally AFK but with some capabilities to respond via IM programs. When I was unable to monitor it for long periods of time, I'd be sure to pick something safe and low-key, to not get into any trouble.
The list of things you say your bot program allowed your character to do sounds absolutely incredible. Did your character actually do all those things with no supervision?
At the end, yes. You have to give credit to the Glider community -- there are some brilliant, dedicated minds working there for free. The biggest advancement for botting has been the addition of the intelligent pathing tool I was talking about. It has taken a lot of the clunky movement out of the botting and has allowed for a truly intelligent system that actually knows, by code, where everything is in the game. It eliminated the simple "You are at point X, go to point Y" system and replaced it with a system that knew where every texture and object was in the game.
Developing my bot's character was a little more challenging. I'm a technical person as well, with a hobby of delving into artificial intelligence, so I admit that my personal bot was probably the EVE to the normal Glider's WALL-E. It was really just about tweaking certain functions to behave more human-like. The biggest problem I always had was context. It was hard to determine exactly what the person wanted from a strictly conversational point of view. For example, someone just saying "hey" doesn't tell you much. The best approach I always found was to set everything up to be as nice and unobtrusive to people in my physical proximity. Also, botting on a class that no one wants to group with helps a lot. DKs are a perfect example.
Were you ever reported?
I don't think so. There is a botter code of conduct that is usually followed, which is: "If someone else is there, come back later" and "Don't report fellow botters." Not everyone follows that, of course. On the server I played on mainly, I knew of at least 10 to 12 botters (mostly on the other faction; those are always more noticeable), and I never reported any of them. Many deserved it, but I stuck to the code.
You mention having children. Did they ever watch your character botting? If so, were they aware that this was against game ToS?
Interesting question. My kids are young (1 and 3 years old), so they're not at a level to understand something like that. Children are very impressionable, and I try to limit their exposure to video games at such an early age.
That said, though, my son (who is almost 3) is the sole and only reason I got so many vanity pets. He has a huge vocabulary of animals, thanks to WoW (I'm ashamed to say). He loves to see all the different animals I can pull out. He's learned dragon ("day-gone"), cockroach ("roshe"), firefly ("fi-fi"), moth ("mott"), owl ("lewl") -- just from seeing my pet. He wasn't that excited to see the skunk you get for 50 pets, but he was overjoyed to see Bambi at 75.
Let's talk about your thoughts on the recent Glider decision.
The entire legal battle has been unnecessary, from my point of view. Like it or not, Blizzard makes a ton of money from bot users. Getting rid of it will either open the door to other avenues to do such (think MMO Glider with the same support structure as now but with no cost), or it'll cost them a ton of money. They've already spent a huge sum in legal fees to try and stop it. The judge in the trial is either clueless by choice or on Blizzard's payroll -- possibly both. It's opened a whole can of worms in regards to ToS and the end-user responsibility.
If Blizzard was really serious about stopping botting, they'd stop it. All they need to do is get a trained botter on their staff to jump through some bot hot-spots. Botting off and on for over 2 years, I guarantee I can spot a bot with a 99% accuracy, and so can most other bot veterans. I think this trial is just Blizzard's official action against it -- enough to make whoever cares happy -- when deep down, they know that gold farmers and botters just bring them more revenue.
As for the future of botting -- well, it won't stop here. People will always find a way. Unless Blizzard somehow gets a full rootkit on your computer, it will always be a possibility. Good thing it's not Sony running this operation, or that might be a reality.

I wouldn't rule Glider out quite yet. Even if they officially go down, I'd be surprised if the legend didn't live on. The project needs to stay closed source, but it'll still be developed in the future. The only change is users might be downloading it via BitTorrent instead of a U.S.-hosted web server. In fact, MDY losing this battle might bring in more bot users in the future, due to easier availability and cheap/no cost.
What's behind your recent decision to quit playing WoW?
Like many other PVP junkies, the latest PVP and Arena changes were the nail in the coffin. Wrath took some baby steps in order to improve PVP (like Wintergrasp and upcoming dual specs) but really failed with the latest Arena changes. In particular, the new "spooky hidden rating" system was poorly implemented and made the game a lot less fun. WoW has always been a bit of a joke of a game in regards to PVP (let's not delude ourselves), but the class balance and overall direction that WoW has taken since patch 3.0 has not been good overall. Blizzard should have followed their "Bring the player, not the class" in regards to PVP as well. At the moment, it's "Bring the Paladin, not the player" (incoming Pally hate in 3 ... 2 ... 1 ...).
Of course, on the other side, the PVE aspect of the game is just stale. The treadmill progression system (raid to get loot so you can raid to get loot, ad infinitum) is a core design feature, and it's hard to get worked up about. The PVE encounters themselves can be fun but come down to learning and rerunning a specific tactic. I know playing a healer in PVE isn't the most interactive role, but playing whack-a-mole with health bars is a serious problem in the game that won't be addressed any time soon.
Lastly, Death Knights. The class, the mechanics, the lore -- everything about the "hero class" is just a bit silly. Azeroth was better off without them.
Now that you're no longer in WoW, are you playing other games?
I'm back to playing Counterstrike, Left 4 Dead and some RPGs like Fallout 3 and King's Bounty. The great thing about these is that you can play for short periods of time and have fun. An hour here, an hour there -- very hard to do in a persistent MMO like WoW. I suppose when a game starts to become a burden, it's time to rethink priorities.
I need to play and study MMORPGs for some aspects of my business. I do investment consulting in Europe for groups and companies that want to invest in the MMO field. They call me in to get my thoughts on an upcoming or proposed future title. I try to stay up to date and in touch with what people want so I can make good, sound decisions. I've even gone as far as working on some core game design and providing feedback to development teams.
And of course, I also write. I've done some work for The Escapist Magazine and 1up.com, but I mostly do stuff for Euro-based security outlets and magazines. Trust me when I say when you have to write dry stuff like that, it's a pleasure to be able to write about gaming every once in a while.
Would you have continued playing WoW if Glider had not been shut down? What about the "other ways to bot" that you mention in your article?
Me quitting at the same time the Glider case is about to close is just a coincidence. I'd have kept playing, sure -- from a personal point of view, I've gotten everything I need from Glider/botting, at least in the current state of the game. As far as other ways to bot, I'm sure they're out there. I'm not to knowledgeable on those, though, so I'd have to leave that to the experts. ;)
Filed under: Cheats, Features, Interviews, 15 Minutes of Fame
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Reader Comments (Page 5 of 9)
Mognet T Feb 17th 2009 9:16PM
That was a very interesting article. This has actually made me rethink my position on botting altogether.
Trygg Monson Feb 17th 2009 9:18PM
Yes the money you pay to Blizzard for the PRIVELEDGE to play WoW is indeed your money. If you read the legal mumbo-jumbo WoW is their game, your characters, their gold and bank contents and the very 1's and 0's that make up the game are Blizzard's, which means when you use a program that interacts with that code and is not approved or condoned by Blizzard you are messing with something that is not yours. So if you don't like the stance Blizzard has taken don't pay them your money anymore.
Lemons Feb 17th 2009 9:19PM
Wow, this guy is the biggest db I've ever seen in my life. This entire article made me want to puke. There's no justification for botting, but he seems to think of it like some sort of simple time saving measure.
I feel bad for this guy's kids. He's obviously some1 with a screwed up moral compass, and I hate to see what his kids are going to be doing in the future.
"So...going to work?"
"Naw, like my daddy always said, why work at something when you can have a bot do it for you? So I just send my android look-alike"
"Wow...you're a...you're a real db aren't you?"
"Yea...yea I am.."
Daedren Feb 18th 2009 4:10AM
While I appreciate feedback, let's not start bringing family into this.
You call me a douchebag and then somehow contort that into my moral compass and how my kids will grow up? That's a stretch.
Here's a tidbit: I was in the US Military for 10 years. Iraq twice. Allied Force. I met a European girl and fell in love. I live in Europe now, have my own business, and think I have a handle on things. Sure, I'm not perfect, but what the hell?
Kylenne Feb 17th 2009 9:21PM
What a selfish entitlement whore. And I'm not at all surprised there are other selfish entitlement whores defending this kind of egregious behavior. I've always believed that WoW's best asset and worst nightmare are its players.
If leveling is so HARD and BORING (QQ), don't frelling do it. If your hobby is oh-so-bloody tedious and awful you feel the need to resort to cheating then maybe it's time to find a new one. It's really that simple. This game is so damn easy anyway that if you need a bot to play it for you, you're too pathetic and stupid to be playing it. I work in financial aid for a tech school and was pulling down 10-12 hour days when I started playing WoW, during what was an absolutely hellish summer enrollment period at my school. Grinding levels/rep and chatting with friends as I did it after work was immensely relaxing. And somehow I managed to faceroll to 70 with a minimum amount of effort, on two different toons, while also having a social life and planning a cross-country move.
What kills me is this douchebag has the audacity to be giving investment advice. Cheating at a video game in and of itself doesn't necessarily mean he's an unethical scumbag in his professional life, but his BS justifications for it pretty much tell me everything I need to know about his character (or lack thereof). Seems to me this "me first", "eff the rules and everyone else, I'm getting mine" attitude in the finance community is a big reason why the US economy's in the crapper. There is far too much green-eyed monster and not enough caring about ethics.
Plastic Rat Feb 18th 2009 12:19AM
Great post by the way. Very well said. It's amazing how many people completely miss the concept of ethics.
Or, as your average botter does, twists it. You'll get the usual "Well I AM ethical because I choose to spend time with my family, not grinding at some video game!"
Point is simply that the mentality behind botting is the root cause of a LOT of other problems out there in the world, not necessarily WoW related.
WoWeconomics Feb 17th 2009 9:33PM
One of the prime issues with botting if it were completely accepted by Blizzard would be the effect on the WoW economy. With botting your source of gold would be 10 times what it is as a casual player. This would cause prices in the auction house to sky rocket until casual players had almost no choice but to bot. It would also cause every farming area across Azeroth to be filled with individuals botting. The reason you rarely see bots now is for their own security. As the 15 minutes of fame responder said, he had to avoid peak hours. If botting became legal this would no longer be an issue. Respawn rates for mobs would also have to be dramatically increased just to allow players to gather materials for themselves. Botting has its advantages as an underground activity but it has no place in the mainstream.
Lilithsblood Feb 17th 2009 9:37PM
Games were made for entertainment. Fun. Hanging with friends, doing something they enjoy. You go to out at night play some pool, you go on a vacation with your friends, or you enjoy a hobby you can do when your by yourself. Entertainment. Plenty of us are playing Wow and enjoying it. Some people have gotten so wrapped up into the 'Must do everything, complete everything have it all' that they don't have fun. Why would run a program to do gaming for you while you go to work. You can't just enjoy the game? If its no fun don't play it. Don't complain about people spending so much time doing things you hate just to get somewhere you don't like more if your going to be paying 15 bucks a month. No ones forcing you. If you don't enjoy it, go spend your 15 bucks somewhere else.
Besides the fact of botting defeating the purpose of enjoyment, too many MMO players start this endless cycle:
-Alright this leveling is boring, can't wait to get to max level I'll have fun then
-Ok max level, gotta get some gear so I can raid, then I'll be having some real fun.
-Nice, got into some raids, need to get my full sets of gear, then I'll have fun.
-Got the highest gear in the game, I think I'll make an alt, that will be more fun than this, I'm bored now.
-Alt time, learn a new class, gotta level up.. then I'll have some fun..
-Rinse, repeat.
If your in this cycle, regardless if its PvE or PvP you probably shouldn't be playing the game.
If your playing it for the social aspect and you get on at night and have a blast, GREAT!
If you get on for PvE or PvP and get on at night and have a blast, GREAT!
Whatever the hell you do, if you get on and play it a lot, and have a blast, GREAT!
If you get on, get stressed out over raids, times, problems, gear and drama. Waste your time, and decide to try again next time, and it repeats itself over and over again. Stop playing, and read a damn book, go out with your friends, or get laid.
Xigageshi Feb 18th 2009 4:15AM
will you be my new god?
Lilithsblood Feb 18th 2009 2:12PM
lol
mr.gerbz Feb 17th 2009 9:40PM
"I need to play and study MMORPGs for some aspects of my business. I do investment consulting in Europe for groups and companies that want to invest in the MMO field. They call me in to get my thoughts on an upcoming or proposed future title. I try to stay up to date and in touch with what people want so I can make good, sound decisions. I've even gone as far as working on some core game design and providing feedback to development teams."
Hm, sounds like a job I'd really like.
Daedren Feb 18th 2009 4:16AM
Yeah, I would too. I apologize that this isn't very clear in the "interview" here, but that's not my primary job, it's just a secondary business aspect. There isn't enough interest in MMO's and online gaming to really do it full time.
So, day to day, I get to work with boring stuff like e-commerce and international banking. Sometimes we get groups or companies interested in online gaming, and they're sent my way. It's my job to explain to people what MMO's are and discuss marketing and economics with them from an investment point of view. WoW is usually 50% or more of the conversation as it's "the MMO" when it comes to money.
datt67 Feb 17th 2009 9:44PM
I pay someone $20 to come into my house once a week and clean. In the great game of life, is that 'cheating'? Should my neighbours, who do their own cleaning, be upset? Should they rail against my refusal to do my own dusting? It's not affecting them, in any shape or form. What I do with my $20, and how I manage my leisure time, is up to me. If what this guy says is true (that his botting isn't affecting my enjoyment of the game) then what the hell do I care? That he's paying a third party to gather vendor trash makes a kind of sense. Now, excuse me, I've got to go load my dishwasher.
Hoggersbud Feb 17th 2009 10:03PM
Ah, sloppy analogies for the lose! Cleaning your house isn't really something you compete with your neighbors with.
That's your business.
Same as you're allowed to program a robot in your own games, or any other non-MMO. Your playspace, you are allowed to do as you like.
You want to play an MMO and Bot? Ok, play whatever MMO allows that. Me, I think I'll pass on that myself.
And believe it or not, rules like that are imposed in a variety of endeavors. Auto-racing for example. There are racing leagues that let teams install automated speed limiters for driving on pit road. Others don't.
What would you think if you obeyed the rules, and somebody else didn't?
Seriously though, botters, you want to make bots? Do it in environments that accept botters. Don't bring your bots into places where you're not wanted.
And for those complaining about the tedium of leveling, suggest to Blizzard that they offer a system to auto-level new characters if you like. That's a valid response to the problem you have.
Oteo Feb 17th 2009 10:36PM
With his line of thought, athletes should just take steroids because who has time for any of that crap like exercise and strength/endurance training? They're only doing it to play the actual game, so who cares how they get there. It totally doesn't give them an unfair advantage over their opponents who follow the rules. Besides, there are things they could do with the time they'd normally be training, like binge drinking and throwing up in the women's bathroom. Wewt!
Orbit Feb 17th 2009 10:57PM
All this "Once you've leveled once, you don't want to do it again" trash just pisses me off.
NOBODY is forcing you to level 7 characters to the max level.
That's something called "personal choice."
That's in NO way an excuse for this botting crap. And to add to it, I wish that the cheating, pieces of crap that botters are, just wouldn't feel the need to ruin games for other people.
Daed Feb 17th 2009 11:24PM
To circumvent the one constraint that defines the reward system in a game is simply cheating. If you have no moral objection to cheating, then I guess botting is for you. I happen to find the practice morally repugnant.
Rattlegear Feb 17th 2009 11:36PM
Despite the arguments for botting to save time, I still think it's wrong. I'm not a hardcore player either and I only usually get to play 2-3 times a week for 4-6 hours a session, AT MOST. Botting DOES cheapen the experience for both botters and non-botters alike.
Burn the witch, DRAWN AND QUARTERED!
(grrrrrr)
Gallifrei Feb 17th 2009 11:48PM
So basically, this is the guy that decides if your new MMO gets invested in. Don't piss him off Blizzard, he might be the David to your Goliath.
Xigageshi Feb 18th 2009 4:07AM
yea because blizzard is clearly in dire financial straits and needs investment for their next mmo.
oh wait...