Patch 5.4 patch notes
Virtual Realms feature revealed
The Proving Grounds are coming
The latest patch 5.4 newsUlduar vehicles will scale with gear
by Mike Schramm 
Feb 18th 2009 at 10:30AM
Here's a little consolation to those of you, like Eliah, concerned about the Ulduar vehicle fights: Unlike some of the other vehicle fights in the game already, Daelo says on the forums that the vehicles in the next raid will actually scale with gear. He says someone in blues will have a much harder time in the vehicles than someone kitted out in Naxx gear.Personally, I've only done Oculus, but I do agree with Eliah that putting us in vehicles takes away a lot of the achievement we've gained by leveling and questing -- it's not fun to fail on a boss just because you're trying to deal with a whole new set of abilities you've had no control over until you jumped in the driver's seat. But the fact that the Ulduar vehicles will scale helps a little bit -- players were concerned that every time you went in there, it'd be the same fight, but with new gear that should change. And obviously Blizzard has heard the concerns about the Oculus, so you'd have to hope they wouldn't make the same mistake twice.
Elsewhere on the forums, Zarhym promises, comically, that we'll all enjoy this (and that we'll forget to post how much we enjoy it on the forums afterwards). He says that the fight is different from anything else we've done in the World of Warcraft, and that when all is said and blown up, it'll be an epic encounter. We'll see.
Need more news about Ulduar? We've got updates, previews, speculation, and everything else you need to know about the next big raid coming in patch 3.1. If the Titans are hiding it up there, we'll tell you about it here.Filed under: Patches, Analysis / Opinion, Blizzard, Raiding
Reader Comments (Page 2 of 5)
Axlrose Feb 18th 2009 10:51AM
Yeah, this news took me from heavily pessimistic to guardedly optimistic.
Rugus Feb 18th 2009 10:52AM
Vehicles in any game can be lot of fun. In Wow, they're just poorly implemented. They still need a LOT of work before being something "fun" and reliable.
Ed Cote Feb 18th 2009 5:58PM
I agree somewhat. The real problem is the implementation.
I remember when I first heard about the vehicle combats, especially the drake riding in Oculus. I was pretty psyched to check it out. But it turned out to be garbage, and now I wish they'd just knock it off and stop shoving it down our throats.
The gimmick isn't working. Maybe Blizzard can fix it, but I'd feel better about that possibility if they would debug some of the extant vehicle combats.
Kraf Feb 18th 2009 10:52AM
well before this I was loving this encounter and now I'm still loving this encounter, and I'm glad to see there's not that many QQ'ers, yay >.>
Ronnie Feb 18th 2009 10:54AM
I personally like the vehicle fights. They're different and new and take people out of their comfort zones (which is usually just spamming). I do get frustrated however when we wipe on 3rd phase maly after doing damn well in the first 2 phases. I think the problem is that a large amount of people who play WoW don't play other videogames. They're not used to quick reaction times and adapting to different mechnaics on the fly. So while some people pick up the new abilities faster than others, the non-gamers really panic and have no clue what they're doing. There is a way to fix this though. Time. There is about 8 seconds of prep time for Maly for people to get acclimated with their new drakes. I know that there was the daily, Aces High, that was meant for people to get used to flying them, but the actual moving around parts and the buggy targeting really seems to have thrown people off. For the new encounter I hope Blizz puts in a "Starting Safe Zone" where the raid can practice, possibly on dummy's, and prep for the fight at their own pace before they go in. I also think it's a good idea to put the vehicle portion of encounters in the beginning of fights so there is less downtime for people to practice their new abilities than having to go through 1 or 2 more phases.
Arcaria Feb 18th 2009 10:55AM
I'm saddened to see that they're are going to be more bosses requiring vehicles and such. I really don't like them and don't have much faith that Blizzard will do anything to make them any better.
look at me in my cool vehicle! Feb 18th 2009 10:57AM
Vehicle combat is great. For SOME people. Which is why it should stay in the realm of quests or PvP and NOT raids.
Most raiders I know don't spend weeks/months levelling their toon, min/maxing their spec, min/maxing their spell rotation, just so they can watch it sit on the sideline, useless, while they pilot some silly, gimmicky vehicle.
We're being dumbed down from our usual several-spell rotation (plus x number of well-timed cooldowns) that we've worked hard to perfect, for a lousy 3-4 ability vehicle. Where is the fun/innovation/challenge in that?
Throw in all the bugginess and lagginess etc. that a lot of people experience with vehicles and I just don't see any reason why they should be in raids. Let me use them in quests if I want, but don't force them on the raiding community.
"New" or "Different" does NOT always = better.
There is a reason why Oculus is the least played Heroic. That alone oughta tell Blizzard something.
/votes NO to vehicles in raids
AyaJulia Feb 18th 2009 11:23AM
"Where is the fun/innovation/challenge in that? "
The fun, innovation, and challenge is in learning a new combat system in new raid configurations.
Before Malygos, my husband didn't know what a combat point WAS. I play the only healer on that fight in our 10-man once we go into dragon mode, and I think that's really cool. We have to get everyone to stick together in three planes, which is really difficult for some of our first-timers. Plus, it just makes it more epic from a lore standpoint--you'd have DIED if those dragons didn't intervene, how amazing is that?
In Oculus, I think the drain HP from aggressive target/drain HP to friendly target mechanic is actually really cool, though I won't do the instance because people have such a hard time with it and the dragons don't scale at all.
Where's the fun, challenge, or innovation? You're going to have to look at the abilities of each vehicle, sit down with your raid, and go "ok, group one, take motorcycles and see how it goes, try all their abilities, tell us if they're useful. The rest of us have done WG a lot, so group 2 and 3 take demolishers, group 4 and 5 take siege vehicles." Then after the inevitable first wipe, you'll have to sit down again and plan out a new balance, because 5/10/10 surely won't be right on the first try. You get to work out what each one does, who's good with which, and what balance you need to take down the boss in normal difficulty and any of four hard modes. How is that not a new challenge? And hell, I think it's fun.
meh Feb 18th 2009 11:48AM
Then let us just start at lvl 80 with no talents etc and just give us vehicles for every fight.
DanH Feb 18th 2009 11:52AM
"Plus, it just makes it more epic from a lore standpoint--you'd have DIED if those dragons didn't intervene, how amazing is that?"
Not amazing at all.
There is, in fact, nothing I hate more than being "saved" by the prescripted intervention of NPCs.
I'd also add that while *you* would have died without those dragons there, since the Dragon abilities entirely overrwrite your own, and since dragons are intelligent beings entirely capable of functioning without a rider, the *dragons* can clearly get by perfectly well without *you*.
gundamxzero Feb 18th 2009 12:17PM
Its 1 boss out of 14. Give me a fucking break, its an awesome idea and you can worry about not being "dumbed down" on the other 13 encounters meanwhile I will enjoy some cleverly implemented vehicle combat killing the first boss in ulduar.
Sinthar Feb 18th 2009 10:56AM
TBH i dont see why we have to have vehicles at all. Its meant to be a swords and sorcery type game, not a 'let your mount/vehicle do the work'. If i wanted vehicular combat - id still be playing road wars or something similar. Vehicle/mount combats are a complete dev cop out imo. Personally i think the whole idea of 'drop em on a mount' DURING a boss fight, and let em struggle with the controls,tactics etc more than a little off. Will i enjoy it? - i doubt it very much -more like be frustrated with yet another game mechanic (which will no doubt be bugged...again) introducted for no reason but the devs have no new ideas.
Fletch Feb 18th 2009 11:02AM
The use of vehicles seems to have vehemently split the community. I personally don't like them, though contrary to what people posted in the previous thread not because I need to 'L2play u noob'.
In my opinion, and contrary to what most of the supporters seem to believe, I don't think the use of vehicles favours skilled play - quite the reverse in fact. Once you have learned the encounter there is no variation. The vehicle flattens out variation caused by gear and differing skill rotations. Providing the strategy is executed correctly then you are guaranteed to succeed. Obviously this is also true of raid encounters without vehicles, but the point is there is far more possible variation and things that can go wrong when you aren't stuck with a very small and limited subset of actions.
I am in favour of the proposed vehicle scaling with gear simply because it will introduce more variation and more possibility for things to go wrong.
MasterAsh Feb 18th 2009 11:27AM
See, I used to think the same thing; learn what buttons to press to win and you're good forever. . .
Then I kept seeing people fail repeatedly in Occulus.
Now, this likely winds up being the case for folks with Maly, but then that just proves one thing: The folks snoring through phase 3 of Maly are better than the people struggling on Eregos. And if that's the case, then I suppose there's some truth to the sentiment I see in the official forums often:
A lot of people are just really, really bad at a really, really easy game.
Mindreaver Feb 18th 2009 12:16PM
Fletch is absolutely correct.
And I'll wait to give my final judgement to see what the encounter is like. But honestly, no matter how well done it is, this just ends up being the chess event.
Think about it. The first couple times your raid did chess:
1) fantastic design
2) innovative
3) fun
4) Needs everyone doing their job
But about 4 or 5 times through kara, what did you think about that event:
1) So easy
2) Free loot
3) Not fun
4) Could be done by 2 people playing well and the rest doing nothing.
I fear this is exactly what the ulduar vehicles will turn into. Fun the first few times, and then a boring headache from then on out.
I don't like the choice to make it the first encounter. I understand that chess was needed before getting to prince; so either way to HAVE to do it. But I don't like having to do it every week. This should have been the optional encounter. Fun the first few weeks, and avoided after it becomes stale.
Neodarkmatter Feb 18th 2009 11:03AM
I think this makes since. It prevents allowing just any level 80 character from going into Ulduar and getting some good gear.
Rosarra Feb 18th 2009 11:10AM
will my vechile be at a disadvantage because one of my trinkets is far lower ilvl than the rest of my gear? all of it is ilvl 200 and a few ilvl 213 bits, but my darkmooncard: blue dragon is ilvl 66, even though its jsut as effective at 80 as it was at lvl 60
sinthar Feb 18th 2009 11:12AM
Sorry but i disagree with you completely. The fights you so casually throw off ARE exactly what you say they are not - if you think they are so easy (ok ill give u a certain dance boss as 5 can beat him - just takes some time- and thats on heroic) then let see you bring 24 nude mates on each others chrs and down em 1st time. Not about gear or abilities - what is LEFT then? With no gear and no abilities - how the hell would you do ANYTHING. For example sath - wot u gonna do BORE him to death? Coordination needed - yeah a bit, gear and abilities - sure. If anything Patch is the least skilled encounter imo - u need gear - but at no time do you have to move or think as all you do it SPAM main attack. Saph - well im sure you have to coordinate, but with no gear - well take your no gear or abilities healers and enjoy your wipefest.
Arcaria Feb 18th 2009 11:26AM
????
Sinthar Feb 19th 2009 4:53AM
Sorry no idea how my post got here. was meant to be a rebuttal but somehow its got 'lost' - not even sure how you found it to reply to!