Breakfast Topic: Nostalgia vs. reality -- fight!
by Allison Robert 
Feb 21st 2009 at 8:00AM
There's an interesting post on the forums that's become a catalogue of what old-time players miss most about classic WoW. While it's become a pretty thorough compilation of iconic moments, there are admissions that, well, maybe some of the stuff that's fun to look back on wasn't actually that much fun at the time. The examples include trying to get past a 40-man raid of the opposite faction into Molten Core, the boredom of raiding as little more than a glorified Decurse-bot, the countless guilds who broke up on Vael, and the fun of Tarren Mill/Southshore PvP that had the ancillary effect of making leveling in Hillsbrad such a nightmarish experience.I'm seeing the first glimmers of such nostalgia for BC content start to emerge, and hearing a Sunwell PuG advertised as a "fun run" the other day left me speechless for a moment. It's equal parts compelling and unnerving; part of me misses the struggle to down bosses in Tiers 4, 5, and 6, but I also remember ugly M'uru wipefests. Everyone likes looking back on the first boss kill, nobody likes remembering the 45-minute trash respawn timer in SSC, and I like to think that as the game has "grown up," it has also gone resolutely forward.
But then, I'm not an old-school WoW player on the level of these forum posters, and I'm also not sure that the nostalgia for BC content will ever approach that for classic content. Is, say, Black Temple going to be looked upon as fondly as its classic counterparts like AQ40 someday, or is the classic "classic" and irretrievable for a reason?
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Breakfast Topics, Raiding, Forums, PvP
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Ataxtoulis Feb 21st 2009 8:14AM
There is a fundamental truth about human beings:people forget the bad parts of anything and stick to the bright side over time.
People forget the countless wipes on stupid bosses,forget the boredom of mc,they forget carrying double dead weight than they do know just to get the numbers for a 40 man raid.
Instead they remember the funny moments of vent or how epic 40 ppl together look liked.
Its the nature of us,not only as far as the game goes,but on everything we do.
Liel Feb 21st 2009 10:26AM
Yup exactly I spent a year in Iraq in 2004 and guys/gals in my Guard unit like to look back fondly sometimes. Until I remind them how fracking hot it was during the summer, filling sandbags, etc, etc.
Anyways the old 40 man days was a recruiting nightmare. People would get geared up get burnt out, we had to replace them. We always had to do older raids to help gear up some replacements, etc, ugh.
Novead Feb 22nd 2009 4:25AM
But you can't use the nostalgia argument on everyone claiming to have enjoyed pre-BC over the expansions. The game has changed a lot in most parts, to become something that's more of a sequal than an expansion. It would be strange if there wasn't people who prefered the original game. Surely everything can't have gone for the better - for everyone?
Nostalgia is involved in everything humans do, but I highly doubt you can blame it, and only it, for the cryouts for pre-BC servers and such.
Falcrist Feb 21st 2009 8:15AM
I do wish I raided back during Pre-BC era, but I'm glad I didn't have to put up with the crap involved. finding and organizing 40 competent people sounds like a royal pain in the ass, but raiding with 40 in a well organized group would be amazingly epic.
Ah well, there's always the private servers if I ever feel the need to turn back time.
Slowthar Feb 21st 2009 10:05AM
Actually, for the most part 40 man raiding was less difficult than 25 man TBC raiding, mostly because there was a much higher tolerance for failure. While our guild was midway through BWL, we found we were able to clear MC with as little as 25 good players. The ratio was much higher in TBC -- 25 man content took at minimum 20 good players.
RetPallyJil Feb 21st 2009 8:22AM
It isn't game mechanics that we remember; what we remember is that wonderfuly shiny newness of it all.
Jyotai Feb 21st 2009 1:40PM
Yep.
I have fond memories of the first time I managed to reach Dolanar... :)
- After hours in that level 1-5 night elf starting zone, I figured out how to get that antidote to the guy before the 5 minutes ran out... and then... a whole new zone. OMG!
(Now I can get from toon creation to Dolanar in, well... 30-60 minutes I'm guessing. Mostly only that slow because of all the walking back and forth.)
I have fond memories of the first time my troll shaman stepped foot in Orgrimmar and I heard that drum music. OMG! That music sold me on Horde.
- Then I started walking around, and it was just awe-inspiring.
Now it feels like being asked to make a grocery run at 3am for some Ice Cream...
When I got my first, ever, level 20. A month or so into my account, and started that quest for a Succubus, it felt epic. Now that's a day's work, especially on a warlock, to ding through 1-20 and get a succubus.
BUT IT WAS NEW.
- so I remember it with a certain rosy perspective.
Kind of like all the screenshots I have of my first toon standing at the portal to Outlands before, and then after, going through it.
Sinnara Feb 21st 2009 8:22AM
My "Classic" raiding experience is sadly limited to Zul'Gurub and UBRS. I, like many other people, am kinda sad that I wasn't able to see the 40man content when I started, which was a few months before TBC was released. That being said, however, I remember what a pain it was getting 20 solid people together once a week for ZG and how utterly confused I was at first with so many people in the group, and running a 40man at that point would have been a nightmare to me, most likely, and soured me on "big" raiding forever.
Going back and doing the content at 70 (or now at 80, we just cleared MC last night so some people could get the achievement) isn't the same as running it "for real" would be. Still, it's nice that people like me get to see it (damn, why didn't I start a Naxx pug at 70?!) and enjoy it, and it's nice to group up with people who put up with 39 other people at 60 and did it for real.
zweitblom Feb 21st 2009 8:22AM
I haven't played long enough to really have an impression of pre-BC times, but there are things from BC I miss in Wrath.
I miss having a city that is right in the world and its conflicts and not some lala-wonderland.
I miss landscapes that actually invite to stay for a while, maybe to fish or just to talk with someone. Something like Nagrand.
I miss being able to gear up properly outside of raids. I prefer 5mans, but after a month in Wrath there really is little to no point running those.
I miss meaningful grinds like Skywing, Ogrila, Netherwing, Aldor/Scryer, and for awesome profession epics.
I miss something being out of my reach. I can heal through anything in Wrath. In BC there were those almost mystical places like TK, SSC, MH. Places I never got to see, but I loved to listen to others talking about them. It was something to strife for.
This list is getting too long. I am not stating there is anything wrong with Wrath. It just is different, and I simply have not adapted yet. I hope.
sephirah Feb 21st 2009 9:10AM
I agree.
IMHO It seems that in LK, compared to BC, there's simply less stuff to do that can give some rewards.
Maybe it's cause Naxx is so easy, but faction rewards aren't good, instances are an AoE feast you farm for badges that again have few uses for.
No factions (and no quests) tied to raids.
There're no opposite factions (Frenzyheart vs Oracles? really?) to side with.
Professions crafted items are bad: no random BoP patterns, nor awesome BoP items.
I like LK, but probably some BC ideas could be kept in it.
Holgar Feb 21st 2009 11:44AM
I am about the complete opposite of you I love the lack of moronic rep grinds, love the fact that a ten man raiding guild can beatdown big name bosses, love dalaran because it is MUCH better laidout than the "3 tier horror" that was Shat, din't like the whole crystalized insanity look of several zones, Nagrand was ok but I LOVE the look of grizzly hills (Reminds me of home) and Howling Fjord (reminds me of my old home). Zul'Drak is awsome, Ice Crown is Mordor mixed with Hell frozen over.
Harlequinne Feb 21st 2009 10:13PM
Skywing, Ogrila, Netherwing, Shattered Sun weren't patched into WoW until TBC was well over 6 months old.
Zones that invite people to "stay awhile and listen"? Hell no. I'd rather not have another Barrens / Westfall in the game.
TBC is (now) done and finished, Wrath is far from finished.
Anaughtybear Feb 21st 2009 8:25AM
You = douche
Kyoghin Feb 21st 2009 8:27AM
Need more C'thun trash.
Kretic Feb 21st 2009 8:35AM
I agree.
I fortunally have had the opportunity to do all content in exsistence, and I miss the god times of "classic" the most.
If I could bring back the old days back of when Tier gear was drooled upon by lower levels, server only premade PvP and when Epic truly ment Epic Id be happy.
The players make world of warcraft not the content, but when you loose good people over the content or what brings people to enjoy world of warcraft that is when the good times fade.
R.I.P Classic
~Kretic Lightning's Blade US (Alliance Shaman 80)
DayJi Feb 22nd 2009 12:47AM
As a mid bc dropout, i have to say that vanilla 40 man raiding was epic AND epic pain in the a..
But in these moments where you had 40 people focusing and one-shotting Ragna or Vael (never finished aq or naxx) it was pretty damn near orgasmic (remember your first ragna down ppl ?)
The pvping was also pretty neat...
Sorry to say, BC never quite did it the same for me...
Greenfield Feb 21st 2009 8:29AM
oh i so miss BWL and MC, i remember my old computer with GeForce 2MX in BWL i got 5-10 fps :D no way to raid, but then i bought a GeForce 5500fx that was soon to TBC, but then raiding was awsome! when TBC hit i started form begining, and i never raid in BC. Now i cant play WoTLK cos i cant chose what to play with i wana all classes, but i cant chose :D
belligerent Feb 21st 2009 8:47AM
"It's never safe to be nostalgic about something until you're absolutely certain there's no chance of its coming back."
Radiophonic Feb 21st 2009 8:48AM
I miss things that were unique and challenging such as the Kael'thas fight in TK or even, Mag (click damn you!). All we have now was on farm status within a month.
Wrath of the Casual King is a good xpac, it just lacks real challenges and you can't make up for that with nice environments.
I encourage the devs to walk in front of C'thun's door for a sexy buff.
Skippy Feb 21st 2009 8:52AM
I was around during WoW classic, and while I had fun I don't think it compares to BC and WotLK. It certainly was a ton of fun to fight in SS/TM for hours on my rogue. I'd perform little stealth mission and 'scout' out for my raid and I would savor the sweetness of a oneshot stealth kill on someone. I remember feeling like a Gdamn king atop my epic land mount geared out in mostly blues and 1 or 2 epic items. I recall slogging through Molton Core and BWL suffering wipe after wipe, but feeling the 'real' progression of the experience. However I still think BC and WotLK are better-why?
Because raids and epics are more accessable to the causal player. This means that I can game with my friends who are not as into the game as I am. I can sit down with my real life friends and do a pickup Naxx10 and actually clear some content. Back in Classic I had to abandon my friends to attend raids, and I had to adhere to a strict raiding schedule if I wanted to keep going in the endgame. Now I can grab 3 or 4 people and starting a pickup raid whenever I want. I, for one, think that's awesome.
Not to mention that the Wrath fights are alot more interesting than previous raids. They require more interaction between players, and a few of them make people stay on their toes the whole fight. Back in Molton Core I could read a book during 90% of the fights as long as hit my hotkeys and deeps the boss. And all of the fights seemed almost abitrarily hard. I reject the argument that classic fights required 'more player skill'. It just required more player patience. You had to slog through soul-crushingly hard bosses that would probably wipe your raid most of the time even if all of your players were doing their best.
This comment is too long now. Basically, my point is that the classic WoW is not the paradise you think it is. Take your nostalgia goggles off and enjoy the game.