Giving Engineering a little self-buff
by Mike Schramm 
Feb 23rd 2009 at 5:00PM
You may think, as I did upon first seeing this Engineering thread in the forums, that Engineers have nothing to complain about. They get some of the coolest and most-wanted items in the game exclusive to their profession. In fact, as a LW/Skinner, I'm thinking about dropping Skinning when I hit 440 LW just to pick up Engineering, and pour a whole ton of gold into it just so I can get the Roflcopter and all of the other great stuff they get.But after Wryxian gets everyone to settle down and give out just one suggestion for how to help Engineers, they all make a pretty good point: Engineering doesn't have that one self-buff that all the other professions seem to have lately. My Leatherworker can put a nice enchant on my bracers, Blacksmiths can add sockets to some of their items, and Tailors have spellthread that can be weaved into certain pieces of gear. Ashram, the original poster in the thread, actually has some good ideas along those lines -- "Electrified Armor" (reflect damage to chest) or "Laser Targeting System" (a +crit or +expertise head enchant). Other Engis just ask for their current "enchants" to stack with other enchants already on their gear.
The flip side here, of course, is that Engi can't be overpowered One person asks for Engineering to have a "significant advantage" in some bit of gameplay, and that's not the way Blizzard is handling professions -- different classes may play better or worse in different situations, but since every class can choose any profession, they've got to work across the entire spectrum (yes, even Rogues with Tailoring). But it does seem like Engineering is missing that extra self-buff that other professions picked up in Wrath.
Filed under: Engineering, Items, Analysis / Opinion, Odds and ends, Blizzard, Classes, Enchants, Forums
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 4)
lodcan Feb 23rd 2009 5:07PM
lolwut?
sephirah Feb 23rd 2009 5:08PM
Cough cough... Hyperspeed Accelerators?
Nadril Feb 23rd 2009 5:10PM
Won't stack with the other glove enchants.
Aldheim Feb 23rd 2009 5:12PM
Fur lining from Leatherworking doesn't stack with normal enchants either. What's your point?
Rayeth Feb 23rd 2009 5:14PM
Neither do Inscription only shoulder enchants or LW only bracer enchants. So not stacking is not a problem.
SaintStryfe Feb 23rd 2009 5:16PM
cough cough suck cough
I asked the guys on EJ to look at HSA for ENH Shaman.... and they nearly laughed me out of the thread. They ran the numbers and found it woefully underpowered, especially considering other buffs.
Engineering is broken bad. It's tinkers don't stack, and aren't that useful. The profession itself is hard to level, the Goggles are replaced in Naxx, the tinkers are less desirable then standard enchants, one underpowered bomb, no seaforium, the Bike is not a profit generator ("Bike Combine, 20 gold!"), ammo is going away, everyone and their sister has a gnomish pocket knife, and then on top of all that, there's no prospect for any improvements.
Engineering has nothing, NOTHING worth it. Do not waste your hard-earned gold leveling it just to find nothing at the end game. I'm waiting till the patch notes, but if they don't WOW me with something new for Engineering, I'm dropping in favor of Alchemy or Blacksmithing.
sephirah Feb 23rd 2009 5:18PM
Other stuff don't stack (tailors embroderies, lw fur lining, inscribers shoulder enchants)
sephirah Feb 23rd 2009 5:21PM
SaintStryfe, my warlock would trade his Lightweave Embrodery for Hyperspeed Accelerators any day of the week.
dupe Feb 23rd 2009 5:23PM
@Nadril
Note that the Hyperspeed Accelerators give a higher stat budget than any glove enchant when you multiply the active effect with the percentage of time it can be active.
Haste isn't terribly helpful for all classes, but it's still not bad at all.
Now whether it compares favorably to the other profession bonuses, I have yet to calculate.
SaintStryfe Feb 23rd 2009 5:26PM
@sephirah: Yes, because you're a haste class. Anyone who isn't, well, it doesn't help much. Options would rule. But they didn't do that. They cheaped out. Which is why I say Engineering must improve or I'm just giving up.
Nick S Feb 23rd 2009 5:44PM
Hyperspeed Accelerators are great if you're a Haste class/spec. For my Hunter, they became fantastic once Survival rose to the top of the DPS heap. For BM, though, they were worse than even cheap AP enchants.
There ought to be a wider variety of glove enhancements to allow every Engineer a nice "personal" enchant. Say Haste, Crit, and Armor. (HSAs as they are, maybe 80-odd crit on demand, and an on-demand Armor Value increase.)
All of that said, there's really not a good reason to choose Engineering for the end game. It's a fun profession (though it could be more fun, Blizz!) but it's not "viable."
Lemons Feb 23rd 2009 5:45PM
boo hoo, for pvp engineering is the shiz. You've got goggles that increase your stealth detection, and you've got freaking rocket boots to get you out of sticky situations.
PLUS you get to make your own freaking helm. Sure it gets replaced in naxx, but hey at least your not running around in a blue like some ppl *cough* me *cough*.
Besides if they did give you something it's not going to be some awesome spell reflecting chest enchant, it's gunna be something that gives you the equivalent of ~64 ap, that's all it is for everyone else, but in different guises.
tagashi Feb 23rd 2009 7:40PM
@ Lemons-
You should correct yourself. For world pvp and BGs, engineering is cool. It is almost completely worthless in arena however, where some of the most useful stuff is not usable, such as frost grenades!
hagu Feb 23rd 2009 11:14PM
@sephirah - The issue is that the HSA replaces an enchant that is better than the HSA; so the engineer does not use the HSA. The fur linings are about +38sp better than the enchant they replace. Same for the inscription shoulder enchants. So someone with either of these professions or BS or enchanting or JC .. has about more 38 spellpower than someone who has a normal enchant but does not have a profession.
Engineering does not provide a level 80 with any net improvement to a stat. If Bliz wants all professions to be about comparable power, there needs to be some benfit for engineering.
jared.daniels Feb 23rd 2009 5:10PM
Yeah! what about tinkers? Engineers can add their own cool enchant stuff to their gear. They're not quite as good as some of the constant enchants offered by enchanters, but at least they're there. You can't overlook that.
SaintStryfe Feb 23rd 2009 5:23PM
Inscription shoulder enchants, Fur linings, tailor improvements, ect, are all best-in-class or at least equal to hard-to-get enchants. Tinkers suck for the most part. The only one that's better then anyone else has is the Flexweave, but that's not actually a help, it's just nice for running around.
Samuel Feb 23rd 2009 5:13PM
Yes, we have the boot jets and the hand rocket thing. Both, however, are likely to be put aside before you get to endgame in favor of generally available enchants.
We do have the goggles, which are way OP at level 72. However, once you get to 80 and the T-7's, you'll probably be replacing them, too.
We do have bombs, which I personally love using when tanking or offtanking to grab agro on some mobs when my other abilities are on cooldown. However, if you're a high-dps type, the bomb is probably not going to do as much damage as some other spell or ability you could use at that moment.
Something for the endgame would be nice. If nothing else, give us an improvement to the goggles as there was in Sunwell.
Riptidez Feb 23rd 2009 9:50PM
don't they get awesome engineering-only head pieces? how is that not good?
Impulse Feb 24th 2009 4:08AM
That depends on your definition of awesome I suppose. The goggles are certainly a good thing, but you could just as easily replace them with a BOE epic another crafting class could make, so I don't know about awesome. In BC engineering goggles were unusually powerful for a crafted epic. This is no longer the case. As say, a paladin, the only difference between my goggles and a titansteel helm is the model and the zoom in ability. Which is nice and I appreciate having, but it does not remotely compare to other professions. I could have as easily bought an epic helm on the AH.
Now when you take a look at the unique things Wrath professions offer the crafter, they're either self-enchants more powerful than typical enchants for that slot (leatherworking and inscription) or item enchants that stack with regular enchanting (BS sockets, jewelcrafter only gems). Engineering has self enchants weaker than regular enchanting, that does not stack with regular enchanting. To merely be competitive with other professions, they'd need to add something or change the tinker system.
tacjunkie13 Feb 23rd 2009 5:16PM
Coming from the BS side I don't see the comparison with socket items. We have weapon chains that work in place of weapon chants. I would love for chains to stack with enchants but they do not.
The BS does not have their Unique BoP items that Engineers have just look at your goggles, gloves and numerous other fun gadgets.
The sockets are great but your just not comparing them in the same light. Sockets = other trade BoP items.