One Boss Leaves: Eck pwns the ick
by Lisa Poisso 
Feb 26th 2009 at 10:30AM
It was kangaroo vs. 'shroom as Eck the Ferocious took on Amanitar in this week's Two Bosses Enter, One Boss Leaves deathmatch. The little Gorloc bounded to a fairly tight victory.
Reade Rhoz offered up a dissenting opinion on how this matchup would go down: "My vote goes to Amanitar, because his tactics seemingly counter all of Eck's strengths. Eck deals poison damage, and as a giant mushroom, Amanitar is likely to be highly resilient to poison. Eck jumps around, Amanitar entangles. Meanwhile, while Eck is rooted to the group, Amanitar's fungal friends are spouting up all over the place, damaging Eck. Since neither of these bosses are notable for their intelligence, by the time Eck realizes that the spores are ripping his body apart from the inside out, it'll likely be too late. Coupled with a powerful Poison Bolt Volley from Amanitar, and it looks like the Gorloc doesn't have much of a chance."
Filed under: Features, Bosses, Two Bosses Enter
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Wump Feb 26th 2009 10:44AM
Reade Rhoz seems to have a very good point actually. I voted Amanitar as well.
Hoggersbud Feb 26th 2009 11:29AM
Really? I think his points are rather bad reasoning. Normally Bosses are immune to CC, so Amanitar's Entangle would be a non-issue if we didn't say "Ok, let's let CC affect the bosses" as a general rule. But then, Ecks has his ability to jump, and it would seem unfair to me to assume that Ecks wouldn't be able to use that ability to get out of the root. I've also never noticed anyone complaining that nature damage didn't work on Amanitar, so ruling out Eck's Spit is a bit unfair as well. It's not really poison, but bile, which makes it acidic, and I don't recall mushrooms being resistant to that.
So maybe Amanitar can get some licks in, but Ecks can jump around, pick up a few mushroom buffs, go into a frenzy and rip up Amanitar with stacked berserks.
Rhoz Feb 26th 2009 12:13PM
The biggest flaw in your reasoning is that Eck is smart enough to go for the buffing mushrooms. As far as we know, Eck isn't an intelligent boss. We can assume this because he has no intelligible quotes or dialect.
Speech is a sure sign of intelligence, and even the Oracles, who aren't exactly geniuses, can speak. Most Gorlocs can't. More then anything, I predict that Amanitar's mushroom poisons would confuse and anger Eck. It'd jump around rather helplessly trying to avoid the mushrooms. Since there are a lot more mushrooms that hurt rather then heal, and Eck probably isn't smart enough to tell the difference, in this chaotic frenzy that Eck is characterized by he's almost gaurenteed to never actually attack Amanitar, instead focusing on the mushrooms since they're the ones killing him.
Hoggersbud Feb 26th 2009 12:39PM
You're assuming Ecks lacks the cunning to make such decisions, but it seems to me you're giving a huge advantage to Amanitar with his bash and entangle option? Seems a tad unfair to me. If you're going to assume that a boss is using their best available strategy, be fair and apply it to both.
Besides, I don't have to assume anything, since Ecks doesn't need to deliberately pick the healthy mushrooms. He can randomly attack them (though personally, my experience is that Ecks does pick somebody pretty well who to attack with his aggro dropping), and even with his AOE, he can get the buff, so it's not really a valid objection. At the worst? He kills a bunch of the poisonous mushrooms so he doesn't get hurt by them, then springs back to attack Amanitar, and eventually either kills some healthy ones, or goes into a frenzy on his own.
Sorry, but I just don't see Amanitar winning the fight.
Kirtan Feb 26th 2009 11:06AM
I had my bids on Amanitar as well.
Yish, some people are so bad at calculations these days. -.-;
david Feb 26th 2009 11:14AM
I agree had Amanitar as well...i think Eck is so dumb i could picture him eating poison shroom's and killing himself...
Jhestor Feb 26th 2009 12:20PM
Agreed, Eck isn't smart enough to win.
My vote was Amanitar as well.
Hoggersbud Feb 26th 2009 12:42PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall there being any penalty to killing poisonous mushrooms on Amanitar. Does something happen?
Rhoz Feb 26th 2009 2:49PM
One of the impressions I'm getting from your responses is that you think Amanitar is just going to sit there and /dance or something while Eck is bouncing around the field. He's not. He melees and casts Poison Sprays of his own.
Now, of course I'm not saying that Amanitar is a genius. He's pretty unintelligent as well in my opinion but the fact that he has AoE damage slinging around in addition to his normal Poisonbolt volleys means that he's going to out produce Eck's damage in many cases.
Another factor you're not counting on is Eck's own ability arsenal. Eck's Disgusting Spray is an AoE attack, making it quite possible that Eck will end up destroying some mushrooms, including the buffing mushrooms, in each attack. In my experience in the encounter, destroying the buffing mushroom isn't a mistake you can afford to make, and both Consecration and Desecration pop those suckers, so I don't see why Eck's spray wouldn't kill them too.
When it comes down to it, there's probably a lot more luck involved in this match up then either you or I'd like to admit. Where does the mushrooms spawn? Is Eck truly intelligent enough to discern the good shrooms from the bad ones. We all know what happens when you take a trip with a bad shroom. In my opinion, while I agree that Eck can make good judgments on whom to wail on, I don't think that Eck will realize that some mushrooms are good and some are bad in time. He'll probably try to avoid all mushrooms, and when he realizes he can't he'll panic and that will do him in.
I assume that Entangle works in Boss Versus Boss encounters because both of these bosses are relative nobodies in Warcraft Lore. I don't see them as "bad ass" enough to have avoidance Mechcanics in the Boss Versus Boss fights, as Boss Crowd Control is usually much better then Player Crowd Control.
Maiden's Repentance is AoE, Aran's Polymorph doesn't restore health, many bosses do an AoE entangle, and bosses with Frost Trap do it on a much shorter cooldown as some examples.
Now, if we were talking about Illidan or Kil'Jaeden versus Amanitar, I'd assume that both of them are bad-ass enough to break out of Entangle. Illidan is the Lord of Outland. Eck is a giant Gorloc.
Hoggersbud Feb 26th 2009 6:23PM
Well, that is pretty much how Amanitar acts when I fight him. Of course, that's true of most bosses, so it's something we ignore. In this case though, you've presented your position of how Amanitar would fight. I'm seeing some flaws in that, as well as a lack of consideration for Eck, so I'm saying how I disagree. Try not to make too much of what you think I'm not saying though. I may just see no reason to say what you've already said.
But if you wish me to explicitly concur that Amanitar could try to use those tactics, fine. He could, those would be wise things for the boss to try. Against some bosses, that might even spell inevitable victory. But Eck can use his own abilities to counter those of Amanitar. Jump out of the roots, close the distance to Amanitar. Vomit over nearby mushrooms, clear out the bad, get the buff from the good. Really, if you assume Amanitar can think of an ideal strategy to use against Eck, then why can't Eck think of a counter-strategy to use against Amanitar? Dumbness? But you've said they're both short on brains. So either put them on the same field, and don't try to make it some fancy strategic game, or give them the same advantage of strategy.
And no, nothing bad happens when you destroy the poisonous mushrooms, so that means nothing. And given that Eck is apparently able to produce quite a copious amount of rather powerful digestive acids, I don't think it's reasonable to assume he'd risk organ failure from biting the mushrooms either. Even if so, that'd be days later if not weeks. Which might make for a satisfying victory in its way, but outside the scope of the discussion. So at the worst, Eck gets some healthy mushrooms in his AOE but is too far away to get their buff. Fine, but he can jump to others around him if he gets mini'd. This also invalidates any particular bad luck when it comes to mushroom spawns, since he can jump to a safe location.
Sorry, but I just don't see your reasoning as persuasive, and also, I think you've missed a vital point about these discussions. The bosses are given a rough parity, so it doesn't matter whether it's Eck, Illidan or Van Cleef duking it out, at least in terms of power. In terms of their specific abilities, well, that is what matters, though in some cases we may need to make allowances. The trick is to keep them roughly equal.
In this case, I just don't see you being fair to Eck.
Hoggersbud Feb 26th 2009 6:25PM
Oh, and I don't know about you, but I've done just fine in the fights without caring much about the mushrooms at all. I don't think I've ever deliberately killed a healthy mushroom.
dean.speedway Feb 26th 2009 3:58PM
All of the above make very valid points.
What they overlook is the sheer fun factor of Eck.
Big mushroom guy (zzzz.....) vs the "WAAAAGH he's coming right for me!" of Eck
Eck wins