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2-26-2009 @ 4:06PM
I'm a bit annoyed as I'm in a casual guild and was hoping to work towards it at our own pace. Looks like we won't be able to get there in time.
2-26-2009 @ 4:11PM
This wasn't intended as an award for casual players.
2-26-2009 @ 4:12PM
I already have H GOTR and N GOTR so I don't care...Can't wait for that awesome new drake though!---Blizzard doesn't want to screw over casuals, but it is just no fair we spend our pointless lives earning these while you don't. Anyways I don't think many casual guilds will be able to the Immortal for a VERY long time.
2-26-2009 @ 4:19PM
You see, I think this is a bad decision. There are a lot of guilds on my server that just can't make those kinds of achievements. My guild only raids 1 night a week and just like the war bear we are going to lose out on the dragons because "it would be too easy". Why Bliz do what they always do: when hardcore raiders cry about their rewards being trivialized, add new rewards!
2-26-2009 @ 4:24PM
Wow. I call that lame. I don’t understand why the hell Blizzard likes to cater to the selfish mentality of “We want that 1% to feel special so we take it out so no one else can have it.”I honestly don’t see the point. So WHAT if other people get the mount later. Why should it matter. Oh yeah, right. That selfish mentality where people feel they are worth something when they have something others don’t have.
2-26-2009 @ 4:33PM
"You see, I think this is a bad decision. There are a lot of guilds on my server that just can't make those kinds of achievements."That is why it is a good decision. If everyone could do it, then it wouldn't really be an achievement. It would be a work checklist. Besides, saying that the guilds can't do it sells them short. Achievements that are hard are something to work towards, and a way to see progress in the quality and effort of your team (guild).
Good! They should be removing these high end rewards so they continue to mean something in the future. People are going to be walking through Naxx after they get geared up in T8 gear and it's not really fair to those who completed content when it was a difficult and challenging task.
2-26-2009 @ 4:29PM
"I honestly don’t see the point. So WHAT if other people get the mount later. Why should it matter. Oh yeah, right. That selfish mentality where people feel they are worth something when they have something others don’t have."Why do you want a trophy you didn't earn?
2-26-2009 @ 4:43PM
I'm a casual raider yet I agree with Manatank.I would love to get those mounts, but as new raid instances (and the associated gear) come out the difficulty of reaching those achievements go down. Those mounts were intended as rewards for people who put serious energy and effort into raiding, just like the Amani War Bear was a reward pre-WotLK; it only makes sense that they go away as the next level of challenge appears.For casual raiders, there will always be the Violet Proto-Drake for [What A Long, Strange Trip It's Been].
2-26-2009 @ 4:52PM
And why should it matter to you if I do or if I don’t? Me personally, I don’t see myself as ever being able to have one because of the guild I’m currently in, BUT that doesn’t mean I don’t think it’s fair to penalize other people just because the few want to lord it over the others.And maybe I think they’re ugly and I don’t want it. The fact remains is the logic for removing them is unsound. So in order to make the minority happy, lets screw over the majority.
2-26-2009 @ 5:04PM
"BUT that doesn’t mean I don’t think it’s fair to penalize other people just because the few want to lord it over the others"This is what I don't understand. These are currently trophies. Not having them will not hurt anyone. Everyone having them will mean they aren't trophies that mean much. What is so wrong with a few very select things in the game being hard to obtain?I don't have one of these. I won't have one of these. No one on my server even has one of these.
Why do you want a trophy you didn't earn?BTW:Lets clear something up. I don’t want the mounts, but that does NOT mean I don’t think people who don’t raid at your Jedi pace should be screwed out of them too. Who made you judge over what I happen to earn or not? Who do you think you are? If I did want the mount and I got the chance to have it, I would have EARNED IT. I would have ran the instances, put my time in... but oh that doesn’t count because “I have better gear now?” How do you suppose I would have got that better gear? How do you suppose I would have EARN IT? By raiding. But I guess, you want any excuse to hold back others.
2-26-2009 @ 5:14PM
"But I guess, you want any excuse to hold back others."No. Not having a vanity item does not hold anyone back. I don't have it. I won't earn it. I've not been held back just because someone else was willing to work hard, and earn it.This idea of awarded mounts that are available for a short period of time make them awards for finishing a race in time. Why is it wrong to put a deadline on finishing the race? Do you think that everyone who runs a race is a winner?
2-26-2009 @ 6:23PM
I consider myself pretty casual.I was going to be angry when I saw the article title.Then I saw the Iron-Bound Proto-Drake.
2-26-2009 @ 5:16PM
agree'd. Instead of just removing it, how about putting an item limit or something on it, so they can still be attainable but not in Uldar rated gear?
2-26-2009 @ 5:28PM
@ManatankI think the point is that for some of us it wasn't a race. Different guilds are progressing at a different rate, and some people are just saying that they don't want to be penalized because of the speed at which hardcore players raid.I get that it would be too easy to do with post-3.1 gear, but maybe it would be better to limit those particular achievements to being completed with gear at or below Naxx25 iLevel, instead of just eliminating them entirely.
2-26-2009 @ 5:40PM
I actually have to agree with ManaTank here, though Kevin and Lilene make good suggestions.Achievements are just that - achievements. Not task lists. You should have to work extra-hard to *achieve* them. Raid Achievements, in my eyes, are there to give the hardcores something to strive towards while us casuals (and yes, I'm in a semi-casual raiding guild who just cleared Naxx last week) work through at our own pace. Once higher raid gear opens up, completing the achievements won't be much of an achievement any more. Why not reward those people who were able to put in the time and effort to get it done?That said, it would be nice if Blizz could implement a tracker of the max player lvl (for the ZA mount) or gear ilvl (for these mounts) in a raid group, and reward the achievements to groups for whom it is in fact an achievement.
2-26-2009 @ 5:44PM
"I used to be really into sports... then I found out you can BUY trophies".Ignoring the fact that the word "earn" prompts just a little too much silliness in a discussion about a video game...Leaving the mounts in would not trivialize the mounts to a degree remotely similar to allowing the ZA bear mounts to remain. The idea that after T8 comes out, ever casual player will run through and get all of those achievements is a bit absurd, for the very reason that it is predicated on the notion that those causal raiders will be decked out in T8. Even overlooking that, it is still completely incomparable to running ZA at 80, and yes, they removed the bear shortly before 80, but that was because the talents, balanced for level 80 (and thus correlative) were released.
2-26-2009 @ 5:57PM
"Even overlooking that, it is still completely incomparable to running ZA at 80, and yes, they removed the bear shortly before 80, but that was because the talents, balanced for level 80 (and thus correlative) were released."Actually, it was because they nerfed all raid instances with that same patch. When all the bosses had their health reduced by 30%-ish, things tend to be a bit easier.Being the original poster you're all responding to, I have to say that while I am annoyed, I'm not going to run over to the Blizzard forums and say, "ZOMG! U GUYZ SUK!" because that would be immature. I realize it is a video game, but that was one of the achievements I was looking forward to working on. I, however, wanted to do it on my own pace. If it's being taken out? I'll probably still complete it, but won't get the rewards that others received in the past. As part of a casual raiding guild, getting those achievements will be tough even with T8 gear and it will still be an accomplishment for us even though the hardcore raiders will have it on farm for enchanting mats. I also understand that hardcore raiders might be annoyed at their accomplishments being trivialized. However, they will be getting 2 new mounts to flaunt based on Ulduar achievements. It will be quite some time before my guild will have the ability to defeat those achievements and the mounts will likely be removed for those when we get to them. I'll live, but will still be slightly annoyed as I am now.However, the only achievement mount I'm actively hunting for is the Violet Proto-Drake. If that gets removed, heads will roll.
Manatank: "This is what I don't understand. These are currently trophies. Not having them will not hurt anyone. "But they do hurt people. They count towards the 50/100 mounts achievements, and not being able to get these means 2 more mounts casuals have to get elsewhere to get that achievement. So that very much hurts we casual achievement hunters who slowly do raids whenever we get a chance.
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