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2-26-2009 @ 4:55PM
To put a little perspective on this, what you're essentially asking for, then, is to be able to faceroll the achievements in Tier 8 gear rather than doing them when there's a hint of challenge about them?Why should you be entitled to the same reward as those who put the time and effort in to get them while they were tough?Enormous steps have already been taken to level the playing field. Now pretty much anyone can see all available content provided they can find a few hours a week to raid.Let those who enjoy pushing themselves further enjoy what's left of progression-orientated raiding and be rewarded for going the extra mile.Nobody complains about the 310% speed PvP mounts only being available to people with Gladiator titles. What's so wrong with giving the PvE elite their own mount reward?Anyone getting really bent out of shape about not getting a 310% mount can either do the seasonal content for the Violet Proto Drake or up their game to complete the Ulduar meta achievement in time.The European thread is a complete contrast to the US one and is well worth a read for a less QQ perspective on things.http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=8137346923&sid=1&pageNo=1
2-26-2009 @ 5:03PM
Well by that logic, why are we able to solo farm a Skeletal Horse from pre-Tier 1 Stratholme in our Tier 7 or higher higher? Should they be removing the horse drop with the patch too? It may have a very low drop rate, but it's still easily farmed by someone in gear at least 5 tiers above the instance's gear level.
2-26-2009 @ 5:10PM
It's not exactly a legitimate comparison though, is it?The Glory achievements are based on skill/dedication whereas the Baron mount drop has always been about nothing more than blind luck. Complete Glory and you WILL get the mount. Kill Rivendare and you have a tiny percentile chance of getting it. They signify completely different things. The Baron mount is all about someone who was lucky enough to have it drop/crazy enough to farm it while the 310% Proto-drakes shows that someone was at the top of the raiding game in a given tier of content.Why is that so terrible?
2-26-2009 @ 5:21PM
Both are about having the patience to work through things to get a mount. The difference is that the Baron drop is easily soloed and you will not die. It is FAR easier and quicker to get the Baron's Steed than the Raider Protodrakes, even with a 1% drop rate. They're removing the protodrakes because it'll be easier to get right? Same logic applies to Baron's Steed. Can't get much easier than soloing an instance 4 times an hour for a mount drop. Wish I had 4 chances an hour to get the Raider Protodrakes.
2-26-2009 @ 5:42PM
You're completely missing/ignoring the point.The Baron mount looks cool, but that's it. There's no correlation between it and skill or dedication or anything else. Patience for time spent, yes but that's true of hundreds of other things in the game.Who cares that you can solo farm it, it in itself means nothing.By contrast, the 310% protos are status symbols. They show that you had the skill and dedication to complete all the achievements encompassed in the meta. You EARN it, you don't get lucky. By removing it in 3.1 all that's happening is that those who had the time, skill dedication or whatever to get it when it still meant something (i.e. before it's position as a status symbol was taken away by the achievement being trivialised) are being given exclusivity on the mount. That's fine and fair.If you disagree with this, I return again to Gladiator mounts, and PvP achievements generally. Do you think it's unfair that only the top 1% of PvPers get a Gladiator mount and title? My guess is no, because it shows that they're at the top of the PvP game. When Season 5 ends, would you complain that you didn't have time to reach 2300 rating or whatever the rating for Gladiator in your battlegroup will be? Again, my guess is no.Why should PvE content not have these exclusive rewards for those who are at the forefront of progression?
2-26-2009 @ 6:04PM
And pre-Tier 1, the Baron's mount was a status symbol. They still didn't remove it when it got easier. I could give 2 flying shits about the Protodrakes having a faster speed. They could have a -50% speed and I'd still want one. We casuals don't give a rat's ass about speed, we care about how they look.And the raider achievements are still a bit of luck. Some of these(particularly the ones about no one dying on a boss or during an entire raid) depends on RNG determining if the boss gets a lucky crushing blow or aoe spike. A bit of luck is always involved in bosses.
2-26-2009 @ 6:29PM
Rivendare's Deathcharger has never been anything more than a way to show off that you got lucky. Nothing more. Millions of people did Stratholme. It wasn't exactly hard to begin with. I see some DPSer come into my instance on the Deathcharger and faceroll their way to 800 DPS, I'm not impressed by their mount one bit. Everyone and their brother got run through Stratholme, it doesn't mean you're a great player, or even a mediocre one.The Proto-Drakes are different. Someone flys up on a Black-Proto drake, then I know they've got skill. It's not a matter of a lucky drop. I know exactly what they did, and I know how hard it is. They did it, and they earned it. They didn't win it on a roll.That's the difference, The Deathcharger was trivial to get in vanilla provided you were lucky. The Black Proto Drake is a challenge to get.
2-26-2009 @ 7:42PM
And why can't we let the Protodrakes be the Deathcharger in a few years? Keep the drakes in, soon everyone will have them and it'll be no big deal. You had to have a decent group to clear Strat pre-Tier 1, so Deathcharger was a big deal. What was one a status symbol is now a joke. Back in the day, being able to get 1000g to get your epic ground mount was a feat, now it's nothing.Is it really saying someone has no skill if they did Tier 7 raids in Tier 8 gear? They're not that drastically different. Like it has been said earlier, it'd be like Blizz removing the ZA bear when they introduced Sunwell Plateau, since it was a tier higher and people in that gear could steamroll through and get bears. But did Blizz remove ZA bears with Sunwell? Nope. They waited until the LK patch.
2-27-2009 @ 8:28AM
As someone who spent a ton of time farming the skeletal warhorse on my daranei shaman I can honestly say that post 3.0 changes and better gear totally changed it from a nice challenge (ud strat was tough for a lot of classes at 70 - especially elemental shamans with no pushback protection) to a cakewalk.I'm dedicated - I study strats, analyze logs min/max everything, but I have the unfortunate circumstance of playing with less skilled players. I'm even unemployed right now so I can pretty much play around the clock. I really think that the vast majority of these achievements aren't necessarily skill, but more being in the right place at the right time. In otherwords actually being given the chance I could finish these achievements, but its unlikely to happen soon. My biggest problem with removing this is - hardcore raiders seem to often be elitist pricks only interested in themselves.
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