Patch 5.4 patch notes
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The latest patch 5.4 newsGhostcrawler on the success of "bring the player not the class"
by Amanda Miller 
Feb 27th 2009 at 9:30AM
You have heard Blizzard's motto for raiding in Wrath of the Lich King, "bring the player not the class." The intent is to steer away from strict raid composition and shake things up. Encounters are being designed so that no one single class is necessary, although the 25-man Razuvious fight currently requires at least one priest, preferably two or three, with at least one specced shadow.
Classes are being designed so that many necessary buffs, such as Replenishment, can be acquired through a variety of classes, rather than just one.
The rigidity that came with Sunwell is one of the reasons that development has taken this direction. The motto sparked high hopes, and not all players are convinced that the implementation has been successful.
In response, Ghostcrawler points out that just like everything in WoW, it is a process. It's not going to be perfect, because things are always changing.
In fact, the development teams learn a lot about class balance by watching us play the content. GC mentions that they expect Ulduar, specifically in heroic mode, "to shine a much harsher light on class balance."
This equates to admitting that they do not intent for content to be perfect on first release. It should work bug-free, ideally, and be balanced fairly well, but new raid content liek Ulduar is also an opportunity for study.
GC expects "great debates" about the necessity of various buffs, debuffs, classes and specs, and while it will be "interesting, perhaps a bit rocky...we're also prepared to make whatever changes we need to make."
I don't know about you, but this has renewed my excitement for patch 3.1 and Ulduar's release. This sounds tough, challenging, and our own performances will directly affect class balance and raid composition.
On the bright side, Ghostcrawler confirms that there is no current trend where certain classes are being shunned out of raid slots, and that classes that used to be ignored by raid leaders in BC are now working competitively alongside their raidmates.
Finally, he reminds us that the motto "does not mean class is irrelevant." What it does allow for is increased flexibility and creativity. Raid composition shouldn't be an exact science.
Patch 3.1 brings us Ulduar, dual specs, significant changes to all the classes, and more! We've got you covered from top to bottom with our Guide to Patch 3.1.Filed under: Patches, Analysis / Opinion, Instances, Raiding, Classes, Wrath of the Lich King, Forums
Reader Comments (Page 3 of 4)
Gessilea Feb 27th 2009 10:17AM
Whatchu talking about? I've never done Gluth-10 with one of those classes/specs.
Mindreaver Feb 27th 2009 10:41AM
You tell the DK, ele/enh shammie, ret pally, or boomkin to do it.
It isn't hard.
Glossolalia Feb 27th 2009 10:46AM
I did it last night as a DPS-speced Unholy DK with minimal tank gear on.
Verit Feb 27th 2009 6:24PM
I've tried to do it on my elemental shaman, but the only slowing effect I have is earthbind - unless I'm specked relatively deep into enhancement it only has a 10 yard range...
steve Feb 27th 2009 10:08AM
When I compare current raiding with my BC experience and Vanilla experience, they have come a long way to "bring the player, not the class". Sure, there are exceptions -- a couple of people have noted Instructor in Naxx 25, and doing Sarth with drakes up favors at least some class stacking. But mostly what I'm noticing is the way that my own guild now talks about raid composition. Instead of saying "we need an x and a y to fill", they are saying "need a dps, preferably ranged and two healers." I don't remember raid comps being that loose before Wrath.
Gessilea Feb 27th 2009 10:23AM
Absolutely. I try and stay away from the "you weren't here in vanilla so you don't know what you're talking about" argument, but seriously, people who use one fight that requires two priests as proof that "bring the player" is a failure either never ran a 40 man or just have a really bad memory. Try finding eight warriors for BWL or five warlocks for MC, then we'll talk.
Also, this might be splitting hairs a bit, but I disagree with "this equates to admitting that they do not intend for content to be perfect on first release" - specifically with the use of the word "intend". I think that Blizzard intends to release the best possible product that they reasonably can, but that they are also experienced enough to know that it's going to be impossible for them to predict everything that could happen once millions of people start playing new content.
srhall Feb 27th 2009 10:40AM
I find something interesting in this thread. My experience may be contrary to many here, but as things stand currently, I have found 25-man content to be much, much more forgiving of group makeup than 10-man. It seems interesting to me that the designers would have group composition in mind "especially" for heroic content. When you've only got 10 slots, it seems choosing those players to be all the more crucial.
Personal experience with bring-the-player-not-the-class? I think it's obvious that it's working within the confines of guild runs, but pugs will (necessarily?) often rely on the dreaded equipment checks. My newly-80 healadin healed one of our guild tanks through 10-man OS and the spider wing of 10-man Naxx with blues and greens (but thank Blizz that a lot of healer plate dropped!), only to get booted from heroic Vault for bad equipment. That same healer healed another guild tank with blues and only a couple of epics (and unbuffed 24K life) through heroic HoL without much trouble . . . (okay, maybe with a geared elemental shammy helping a little) . . . but that tank tanked like a pro. Because she is.
Stuart
glossolalia Feb 27th 2009 10:49AM
Whoever booted you from Heroic Vault just seems like an asshole, Ive seen healers in completely crappy gear (for an 80 anyways) do just fine
srhall Feb 27th 2009 10:52AM
Yeah, it was amusing as only WoW can be. I was hanging around Dalaran, saw the message "Forming group for heroic VoA, PST." I was the first responder, and was the only healer for the first 15 or so slots. Then, they started talking about equipment checks . . . and suddenly, I was kicked. Such is WoW.
S
barakdorin Feb 27th 2009 11:11AM
"Razuvious fight currently requires at least one priest"
Not true, 3 hunters can handle it as well. Distracting shot rotation.
Jon Do Feb 27th 2009 11:11AM
Well, frankly, I'm not at all concerned about the question of "bring the player, not the class" in 3.1. That should be a rather easy thing to manage now that Blizz has homogenized the classes and has designed boss fights around a simplified and rather basic set of core abilities.
My real concern is another 'disaster' patch like 3.0.2 or 3.0.8, where parts of the game are unplayable, servers are down for two days, etc.
I'm not too charged up about “harsh” encounters, because that might simply be a code-word for “tune hard, nerf later”, like Karazhan etc back in TBC.
Verit Feb 27th 2009 6:35PM
Not really - the encounter didn't change at all in most cases they just didn't tune the encounter to the extreme edge of gear and player ability - the design didn't really change all that much.
I think with Naxx what you are seeing is a combination of things that make people perceive it as easier. One is - many players have done the instance - either at 60 or 70, players and gear has been buffed big time - dps is far more scalable than it ever has been and finally it is tuned for entry level players.
Noirin Feb 27th 2009 12:59PM
Actually you don't need any priest for the Rav fight in 25 man Naxx. My guild has cleared that fight multiple times with no mind-controls (We actually have a priest healing the tank, but not mind-controlling.).
Tauranes Feb 27th 2009 11:20AM
"Encounters are being designed so that no one single class is necessary, although the 25-man Razuvious fight currently requires at least one priest, preferably two or three, with at least one specced shadow. "
While I understand your point there are other ways to complete this fight without any priests at all. Afew raid lockouts ago I was in a 25 man that lost both of our priests right before this particular fight. We completed the fight by having our 4 hunters aggro kite Razuvious with Distracting Shot while a DK with 2 assigned healers tanked the adds. Afew priests is by far the easiest way of doing this fight, however, after 3 wipes I have to admit, the non-sequiter way in which we completed this particular right ranks ups as one of my fonder memories of 25 man nax... and all this from a pug!
Justin Feb 27th 2009 11:21AM
It's working so well that everyone advocates taking either all physical or all caster dps to 10man Sarth 3D (or any hard 10man encounter at your gear level really). Working as intended!
Deb Feb 27th 2009 11:29AM
I agree that bringing the player and not the class is a nice change up, but as a casual player I can't seem to find a guild interested enough to run me through end game. I missed it on BC and fully expect to miss it in Wrath as well.
KilgoreTrout XL Feb 27th 2009 11:54AM
We're underdogs, and I think that's why I like playing my rogue. This is a game after all, and it's good times to laugh at people who get mad at me in dungeons when they die and I vanish.
Seriously, to everyone upset about the lack of challenge these days, just roll a rogue- it's difficult and, more importantly, fun.
[Insert OP class here] is like being excited that you beat NHL '05 using Detroit. Yeah, you won, but you really shouldn't have lost anyways.
(Of course, we'll be better in 3.1. I'm ok with that ;) )
Doug Feb 27th 2009 12:08PM
I wish they would put some kind of queuing system like the battlegrounds have for raids. It still would allow a pre-made raid group but for more casual players they could still get into a raid without all the drama and time expenditure required to setup a raid.
Boo Feb 28th 2009 3:25PM
Blah blah blah... Bring the player not the class... I agree to a certain extent but not when the player is gimped by the class. As long as you can down the bosses then who cares what classes are in the raid right?
However, if it's a case of bring the player not the class wouldn't this (eventually) lead to all classes being practically the same? Every class could tank, every class could heal, every class could dps... not mentioning any classes... Cough cough Palladins cough Druids cough cough... Where's the differentiation?
If you are a DPS class but you want to heal then go a HEALER or pick a hybrid which can do both... BUT don't expect that class to DPS better than a pure DPS class... OR heal better than a pure HEALER class.
That is balance.
Personally, I'm tired of everyone wanting to be invincible. Look at the amount of people playing Pallas now? Nothing against Pallas... they seem to be the superclass at the moment.
I am still of the opinion a pure class should > hybrid class at their specific role. It is a specific role and they should be the best at it (if played right).
A specialist should be > than a jack-of-all-trades. In any situation when a jack-of-all-trades > than a specialist the specialist is then redundant/obsolete.
/wishes he didn't love his class so much atm and rolled a hybrid instead
crsh Feb 27th 2009 12:22PM
They still have a long way to go.
Healers are hardly all equal; a disc priest in PvE is a cheap replacement for a pally, a holy priest is a cheap replacement for a shammy.
Rogues are completely replaceable in raids, so much that there's zero reason to bring one. On the other hand, a DK is pretty much mandatory for Malygos to pull/freeze the sparks (when learning the fight, at least).
Mages are terribad right now, their CC is unused (we went from one extreme to the other); locks.. meh. Shadow priests lost the monpole on mana regen (good thing), but other classes with Replenishment do more damage, so you can easily skip Spriests altogether (bad).
Warrior tanks aren't as good as they should be, neither are bear druids. It's all about pallys and DKs.
Between what they say and what they actually do, there's a huge gap.