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All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsGhostcrawler on the success of "bring the player not the class"
by Amanda Miller 
Feb 27th 2009 at 9:30AM
You have heard Blizzard's motto for raiding in Wrath of the Lich King, "bring the player not the class." The intent is to steer away from strict raid composition and shake things up. Encounters are being designed so that no one single class is necessary, although the 25-man Razuvious fight currently requires at least one priest, preferably two or three, with at least one specced shadow.
Classes are being designed so that many necessary buffs, such as Replenishment, can be acquired through a variety of classes, rather than just one.
The rigidity that came with Sunwell is one of the reasons that development has taken this direction. The motto sparked high hopes, and not all players are convinced that the implementation has been successful.
In response, Ghostcrawler points out that just like everything in WoW, it is a process. It's not going to be perfect, because things are always changing.
In fact, the development teams learn a lot about class balance by watching us play the content. GC mentions that they expect Ulduar, specifically in heroic mode, "to shine a much harsher light on class balance."
This equates to admitting that they do not intent for content to be perfect on first release. It should work bug-free, ideally, and be balanced fairly well, but new raid content liek Ulduar is also an opportunity for study.
GC expects "great debates" about the necessity of various buffs, debuffs, classes and specs, and while it will be "interesting, perhaps a bit rocky...we're also prepared to make whatever changes we need to make."
I don't know about you, but this has renewed my excitement for patch 3.1 and Ulduar's release. This sounds tough, challenging, and our own performances will directly affect class balance and raid composition.
On the bright side, Ghostcrawler confirms that there is no current trend where certain classes are being shunned out of raid slots, and that classes that used to be ignored by raid leaders in BC are now working competitively alongside their raidmates.
Finally, he reminds us that the motto "does not mean class is irrelevant." What it does allow for is increased flexibility and creativity. Raid composition shouldn't be an exact science.
Patch 3.1 brings us Ulduar, dual specs, significant changes to all the classes, and more! We've got you covered from top to bottom with our Guide to Patch 3.1.Filed under: Patches, Analysis / Opinion, Instances, Raiding, Classes, Wrath of the Lich King, Forums
Reader Comments (Page 4 of 4)
breaklance Feb 27th 2009 2:00PM
from what I hear off the US ptr, Hodir is a walk in the park, when people have had the time to pull him.
WTB TANK EQUIVILANCY. of the guilds downing sarth3d how many are doing it with warriors and paladins??? and how many are with dk's and druids. The druid health buff has a clear cut advantage, combine that with superior tank dps while tanking, and superior offtank dps(rawr kitty form) I'm suprised I don't see more bears on my server. Warriors are in a choke hold talent spec, do bottom of the barrel dps, just keep pace on tps with other tanks, and have the lowest health. QQ
SimpleSurvival Feb 27th 2009 3:23PM
a health bar isn't the only thing that a Tank brings to the table...
Pallies don't even stack stam, their HP has traditionally been lower than other tanks. Warriors shouldn't be stacking stam either...
The only reason why druids are favored as MT for 3D is because of the sheer volume of AOE damage. DKs have mitigating mechanics that allow them to avoid much of the damage, and druids are the only guys physically capable of soaking it.
This doesn't imply that a palli or a warrior is inferior. In most other fights, a palli would be preferable over other options due to their consistent mitigation. Pallies are easy to heal (when geared properly) compared to a stam stacking bare.
I really should roll a warrior... I can't speak authoritatively on their mechanic... but I believe it is something similar to a pallies (tank wise). Their damage intake should be a bit more spikey than a pallies, but the overall mitigation should be equivalent.
Granted that DKs win the DPS game, and bares (as kitty cats) will come in second, but we'll put pallies at a close third (mine pulls 1700 on patchwerk). I am bothered that warriors are stragglers in this... but Warriors are better vs casters than pallies (spell reflect) and have much more buttons to play with while they are tanking.
You can't argue "Tank Equivalence" based on a single fight. That fight is a raid stack hardcore challenge... it is not your run of the mill scenario. In 3D, who do you have tanking the adds? I betcha that a warrior or pally might be found standing there.
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To solve your personal tanking problems, i suggest you try stacking mitigation instead of trying to compete with bares on big bars. You want more threat? Stack shield block... nothing pisses off mobs more than hitting them with your board. You want to live longer, put that board between yourself and the big baddie.
Deal with the fact that you can't soak a fully buffed Sarth breath... neither can I... Thats why we have an entire raid there to throw in the assist... Warriors and Pallies have MT'd 3D.
max_bmw Feb 27th 2009 8:54PM
Actually, I don't have a problem with the buff system as a whole, though I wouldn't say there aren't things that could be improved.
While those statements are contradictory in that GC said that they wanted to get away from buffs that were so important that it guaranteed a raid spot while simultaneously adding a new buff (replenishment) that he has said is mandatory as all current encounters are designed expecting your raid to have it, I think the point I was trying to illustrate was missed.
The point those quotes were meant to demonstrate is that as much as people like to say/think/wish/demand (as evidenced by the title of this post) that "bring the player not the class" is the new law of Azeroth, it simply is not the case.
As for the classes, DKs are given the shaft on my server - random pug, organized regular pug, guild run - it doesn't seem to matter. In my guild run, we have a DK tank and we aren't looking for any other DKs. While there is certainly an apprehension concerning most DK's ability to preform in the roll they join for (there are so many DKs saying they can tank and haven't the slightest clue what they are doing), the flip side of that coin is that the good DKs aren't getting a chance to prove themselves due to an overabundance of "established" (pally/war) dps plate.
As far as warlocks go, yes, they fill the ranged dps role beautifully. My lock is always high on the meters if not leading. As I said, I don't know if they are being shunned, just that I don't see many in raids. I don't know if that is because raid leaders feel they only need one lock to provide utility, or that in this new world of DKs and ret pallys there just aren't many locks left.
The point of those class evaluations was that when I see the lead developer state that "We aren't seeing anyone sidelined on raids or being stacked in raids...", I have to look at the situation on my server, and come to the conclusion they are missing some portion of the reality what is happening.
*Sarcasm inc* Perhaps on other servers 25% of the population didn't roll ret and 75% of the warrior tanks didn't go dps and 95% of the feral tanks didn't go resto. Maybe elsewhere everyone loves DKs, classes are balanced and Danita Stonemantle, the mysterious vault manager of Ironforge, gleefully distributes everyone's Gnomish bailout gold. If this sounds like your server, please let me know so I may transfer immediately.
uberminion Feb 28th 2009 12:18AM
I think what most people are missing when blizz says "bring the player, not the class" is that they mean there are multiple classes that can fill a role (admittedly some will be better suited for particular situations than others). They don't mean, as many people seem to think they do, that you can throw together a raid willy nilly with no regard to who you choose. For example, replenishment is a mandatory buff but there is more than one class that can provide it. So as long as you bring one of those classes you are good to go. The main things to keep in mind are that not all classes can/should be equally good at all things (too much homogeneity is a bad thing in my mind) and that this is a major shift from blizz's previous mindset and it is bound to take quite a while for them to get it all sorted out.
artifex Mar 1st 2009 6:08PM
max_bmw: dunno what server you're on. For everyone I know in Alliance faction on Bloodscalp, warlocks are important to the mix. Sometimes I get requests to join raids because I'm the only free lock left. Locks work well running up just behind the tanks (avoiding AOE of course), and I frequently find myself higher than offtank hunters or pallys on meters, as the #2, with the #1 being a level 80 dk. Especially with a few trees around, so I don't have to stop and bleed to get mana back. (I'm just a 72 pure demo lock. So that may mean certain hunters and pallys we play with just plain suck.)
/hugs his trees
artifex Mar 1st 2009 6:37PM
Sorry, was not clear about something: I'm that high on meters when I'm in groups, not raids. Still very squishy in raids :( But I do get requests to be in them because they need locks, not just DPS in general. And by pure demo, I mean I'm 0/63/0 right now, for reals. I'll make an affy hybrid build my secondary spec, probably.