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All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsPlayer reactions to dual specs
by Mike Schramm 
Feb 27th 2009 at 1:00PM
Just in case you haven't been following what people have been saying about the dual spec system lately, Slashhug has a terrific post up covering all of the concerns and thoughts about the new system and how it will affect groups and raids. It's long, but he covers all of the bases, from how hybrids with two specs will affect which players get chosen for groups, to loot and how that will work (the same -- main specs first, offspecs if needed), and even soloing and why dual specs will be a blessing for classes who are normally built more for group play.There's not a lot of new complaints or answers in here -- lots of it has already been discussed on the forums and in our own posts. But Slashhug does a great job of wrapping it all up into one big tasty dual spec sandwich, so you can catch up on all the thinking about dual specs so far. The bottom line, in terms of player reaction, is that dual specs will allow you to do more with your class than you can with just one spec. If you want to heal, you can still heal, or if you're built for tanking, you can still do that. But in groups where things don't quite fit (you've got a few tanks and your DPS is a little low, or your Priest could use a little extra help healing for this boss fight), dual specs will let you make the necessary tweaks right then and there, and excel that much more.
Patch 3.1 brings us Ulduar, dual specs, significant changes to all the classes, and more! We've got you covered from top to bottom with our Guide to Patch 3.1.Filed under: Patches, Analysis / Opinion, Classes, Talents, Wrath of the Lich King
Reader Comments (Page 2 of 3)
Pyornthe Feb 27th 2009 1:27PM
This enables me to go Enhance for my dailies and flights of fancy, and stay resto for raids.
Flights of fancy = lower level instances, exploring, rep grinding, farming, and times when I don't want to pay attention to health bars in instances and raids.
adam Feb 27th 2009 1:38PM
I'm really looking forward to this for my druid. I just got to 80 on that character, I leveled from like 75 to 80 as feral and I planned on going back go moonkin or resto after.. but I love feral now so I can keep it for pvp, and go resto for PvE.
I doubt that I'll buy dual specs anytime soon after the release on my lock, because I love affliction. I'm looking forward to the buffs we're getting. Especially the life tap glyph.
FenSat Feb 27th 2009 1:32PM
How about linking directly to the blog he's responding to in which dual specs are taken to task? You know...give equal time to the opposing point of view?
Seriously, Slashhug in no way has me convinced that pure DPS should be compensated for dual specs, since hybrids by far get the most benefit from the system.
Adequate compensation in my eyes is by balancing to insure that hybrid DPS is marginally lower than the DPS of an equally geared and skilled pure DPS. I'm not saying that hybrid DPS should be gimped; they should do acceptable, even impressive, DPS. But given the versatility offered to hybrids by dual-specs, a warrior should not consistently out-DPS a similarly geared, optimally spec'ed rogue, a druid should not consistently out-DPS a similarly geared and optimally spec'ed warlock, etc.
If not, then all pure DPS classes might as well go roll hybrids as well, because given a choice between doing 5000 DPS and doing 5000 DPS plus being able to heal/tank at the click of a button between fights, the choice seems pretty clear.
Nick S Feb 27th 2009 1:47PM
I rerolled Paladin from Hunter.
FenSat Feb 27th 2009 1:36PM
WTB edit functionality
I meant to say, "Seriously, Slashhug in no way has me convinced that pure DPS should NOT be compensated for dual specs, since hybrids by far get the most benefit from the system."
Oh well, that's what I get for responding at work and typing quickly.
Treason of Farstriders Feb 27th 2009 2:17PM
I'd prefer you go reroll hybrid if you think this unfair to you as pure DPS. Then we'd have more tanks and healers!
I'm tired of having to play my tank or healer rather than my enhancement shaman or ret pally or dps DK.
anonymoose Feb 27th 2009 1:47PM
Newsflash for all those who are whining:
I play a healing hybrid class. Every class I have at 80 is a healing hybrid. I have alts. Guess what, they are healing capable hybrids as well, however in order to level them, I level as dps.
Would you like your pure dps alt to find a healer for your next 5 man? Of course you would.
Stop complaining because my leveling alts will all have dual spec purchased for them, and they will be healing your whining, complaining pure dps butt in the next 5 man you are in.
Unless of course you would like me to NOT purchase dual spec ability as a way to protest this great injustice...in which case you have my blessing to stay in LFG for another 30 minutes - 2 hours looking for a healer for your 5 man because I'm not going to level as a healer.
Mpmagi Feb 27th 2009 3:23PM
Way to put the pu- healer on a pedestal. Healers need 5-mans too.
anonymoose Feb 27th 2009 4:15PM
I think your comment is clumsily side stepping a very important point I was trying to make. I don't know about you, but while I'm leveling as dps and can't afford to constantly switch specs because it's too expensive--95% of the time I have to forego 5 mans or find them delayed by a wait of upwards of 30 minutes to hours because of lack of healing.
If you think that is pedestalizing healers, then you must have exceptionally limited experience.
Many other healers like myself also have *healing alts*. If you want healers for your groups, since you as the mage can't respec and pick up this duty, then support dual specs. DPS is plentiful and easy to find for 5 mans. Healers are not.
ChasW Feb 27th 2009 1:54PM
I have this feeling that the term "off spec" will be obsolete in a year or so. Especially for those who end up spending half the raid in one role and half in another. "Off spec" will become a relic of the past that has no bearing on how the game is actually played and will, thus, be either removed from the lexicon or become a term for a spec that isn't in one of the two main duals.
I mean, for someone new to the game who hits 40 and can switch between two specs for most of their WoW career, which is the main spec and which is the alt spec? Having a differentiation makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, especially if new raids are created with the dual spec mechanic in mind, which I can't see not happening.
numbersguy Feb 27th 2009 2:02PM
Your opinion on Raid Spots is totally subjective. I'll give you an example of why this sucks for pure DPS classes. I'll use a 5 man to keep the math simple. 5 man is typically 1 tank 3 dps 1 healer. Pre-dual spec the pure DPS has a 3/5 chance of answering the call, the holy priest has 1/5 and the prot warrior has 1/5. The sum of these is 5/5. This gives the dps a (3/5) / (5/5) chance at the spot. Now assuming dual-specs are available. The dps has 3/5, nothing changes. The priest now has 2/5, DPS or heals, the warrior now has 2/5, DPS or tank. The sum for these three is now 7/5. This now gives the pure dps (3/5) / (7/5) chance. That's probability amigo. It's a difference of 60% vs. 42%. I realize this is an over generalization but when the sum of the chances increases your initial probability of a spot goes down.
Treason of Farstriders Feb 27th 2009 2:24PM
1> What spec you are at the moment the loot drops, IMO, should still be the one you /roll on against people for mainspec for. I'm going to advocate this with the group I raid with.
2> I don't *want* an offspec for my ret pally. I have both a tank and healer and don't want him doing either.
3> You think we *want* all that gear? No, lots of us view that as "Yet another weapon we have to enchant with beserker" or "Yet another pair of tank bracers we have to enchant with +40 stam" for when we're used in that weird roll. You think Offspeccing as a tank will be a passive loot gathering activy? You think wrong. Epic level tank gear has *no where near* the amount of +def required to be uncritable. You have to start with a base set of all def gear, which you have to buy and enchant to swap to tanking usefully.
4> You think we Want to tank or heal? You know that crap is going to be forced on us. I WISH I could make my pally pure dps. Healing is often vaccilating between boring and terrifying, and tanking between ZOMG hard and feeling helpless cause you're only putting out 1300 dps and have no way to heal yourself.
AyaJulia Feb 27th 2009 2:10PM
Everyone who's bitching about hybrids and dual specs with respect to raid specs seems to think that every single hybrid is going to rush out and equip their more useful offspec in raid-ready gear to take their spots. Come on, kids. Really?
Not everyone LIKES their offspecs. I'm leveling a druid, for example. That druid will never, ever heal except in a severe pinch, because I already have a healer and don't want more than one.
Also, not everyone will spec both of their offspecs for raiding. There are a lot of people who love PvP and will be speccing accordingly -- raid spec/PvP spec. Some of your utility members (tanks/healers) have a hard time soloing in that they're either too squishy or kill things too slowly (or both!) and will be speccing raid/solo.
Finally, if you get to Ulduar and pull out that enhancement shaman's healing offspec for the very first time, chances are it's not going to be well equipped and you're going to wipe it up a few times, or just squeeeeeze through at best.
People who spec for two raid specs, are epicced out on both, and are knowledgeable enough about both to perform their function in raids ARE PLAYERS YOU'D BRING ANYWAY NO MATTER WHAT BECAUSE THEY'RE AWESOME.
Stop whining.
fauxgt4 Feb 27th 2009 2:29PM
I disagree with your concept that it won't change raid composition.
1) Most people, by the time they hit 80, have played at least two specs well enough to know how to do both (DK's being the major exception--- they never raided in BC).
2) For even a casual raider, its pretty easy to get into a group thats farming naxx so most people who have an offspec are probably already decently geared for it.
Given these two things, as a raid leader, why would I want a pure dps for a slot when I could bring a hybrid? Blizzard believes that pure classes should do the same DPS as hybrids. And hybrids can multi-spec.
Thus, given a mage that is decently geared, and knows his class, and an spriest that is decently geared, and knows his class, from a purely practical standpoint, if they are both competing for the same spot in a raid, there is NO REASON WHATSOEVER to choose the mage. Why have just dps, when I can have the flexibility of dps and heals?
That being said, even with my hybrid classes I plan on speccing one pve and one pvp, so I don't care that much. Then again, I'm not a hard core raider. For pure classes who only want to do pve, the dual spec can do nothing but hurt their chances as groups and at gear.
I'm not QQing (particularly notable by the "so I don't care that much." part) I'm just trying to lay down a well reasoned argument to support some of the claims being made.
AyaJulia Feb 27th 2009 2:55PM
"1) Most people, by the time they hit 80, have played at least two specs well enough to know how to do both (DK's being the major exception--- they never raided in BC)."
I disagree on the basis of personal experience. I'm still leveling new alts, and I don't instance until 80 because I find it much slower exp than if I simply soloed my quests. As a result, I only ever know one spec. I suspect there are many people who do the same thing, though by no means am I claiming to be a majority.
"2) For even a casual raider, its pretty easy to get into a group thats farming naxx so most people who have an offspec are probably already decently geared for it."
I do pick up offspec pieces here and there when NO one in the run needs it, but as a holy priest, "offspec" consists of anything with +hit on it, which is rarely unneeded. I've seen druid/shaman/pally get some good offsets, but it's not always the case.
Here are some example NEW raid compositions using Naxx as an example.
10 man: 1 MT, 1 OT hybrid, 2 healers, 1 healer hybrid, 5 pure dps
25 man: 1 tank, 2 OT hybrids, 4 healers, 2 healer hybrids, 16 pure dps
This next part is very important.
Ready?
If you've filled all of the tank/healer spots and are trying to fill out your dps... you have ABSOLUTELY no reason to choose a hybrid over a pure dps. Those hybrids you DO bring specifically to change function are hybrids that you ALREADY need, but who sit around bored off their asses and may as well dps when they're not needed. If you're bringing a shadow priest over a mage when you still need your two extra heals for Patch or Sapph or whatever, you're SMART. If you're bringing a shadow priest over a mage when you have your healing roster filled, you're not.
ckipel Feb 27th 2009 2:24PM
Google's cache of the page (click Text Only Version if it still doesn't load):
http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:8XJor4dTTHMJ:www.slashhug.net/dual-specs-an-anti-rant/+slashhug+anti+dual+spec+rant&hl=en&client=firefox-a&gl=us&strip=1
Poop Feb 27th 2009 2:29PM
I think 1,000 at L40 is not only unrealistic but self-defeating because players will need to choose between buying skills, developing profs, or dual speccing. Not eveyone has an 80 to take the cash from.
Ktok Feb 27th 2009 2:47PM
And I think that the 1K price was meant for level 80s, as was the dual spec feature itself, until people QQed enough and got the level lowered to 40. Now people want the price lowered too? Come on, people... this is a handy feature that is in no way required for you to play the game. It's convenience... like paying someone else to cook your food for you and clean up when you're done.
You pay for convenience, remember?
Just ask yourself whether or not you spend 1000G in normal respec fees and changing glyphs. If you do, you'll save money with dual spec. If you don't, then you will only be saving time.
Magetastic Feb 27th 2009 2:37PM
Well being "Pure DPS" i'm all for it. Gives my Mage more versatility.I can switch between the 53/0/18 and 18/0/53 specs I use on the fly,depending on the situation.
I also play a Druid. I quest Moonkin during the week and go Restro onweekends to do instances. Sometimes during the week i'll see LF healsfor an hour from the same group. I just keep questing. Not gonna pay50g for a respec for one or two instances, then respec again toquest. Dual spec will be awesome. 1000g will be worth the versatilityfor me and the LFM heals crowd.
Enough QQing, go roll a hybrid and help out.
Cyriot Feb 27th 2009 2:47PM
I'm personally looking forward to the dual-spec system. I am a mage who wants to raid and do PVP, and I feel a lot more comfortable with the frostfire spec for raiding. So with this, I can spec frostfire and then go arcane for arenas and bgs without all the hassle re-glyphing and changing my action bars all the time.
Plus, I'm not very big on alts, so this really won't matter for me.