More Druid changes on the 3.1 PTR
The above headline is a polite, succinct means of saying "I went AFK for a few hours yesterday and returned to 2/3 of the Druid class wanting to throw itself in front of an oncoming train."Additions to the latest PTR build aren't extensive for Druids but include a 10% nerf to stamina returns from Heart of the Wild in the feral tree, and a doubling of Lifebloom's mana cost (and reworking of its bloom mechanics) in the Restoration tree.
Well, no point checking our watches waiting for the next harbinger of welcome death by way of light commuter rail. Let's take a look.
HEART OF THE WILD: Stamina bonus changed to 2/4/6/8/10%.
Ouch, baby.
Before I write anything else, a quick note to the people spamming the Tanking and Druid forums with End-of-the-World proclamations; it's the frigging public test realm. None of this is set in stone. Calmez-vous.
I can finally stay on the PTR without disconnecting every 5-10 minutes, so I hopped on and started comparing the character sheet to my main's live version. The biggest problem right now is that the HotW change (in addition to the Survival of the Fittest armor nerf) has gone live on the PTR without Savage Defense going live alongside it. If you get any toons copied to the PTR or can just finally log on successfully, you'll find yourself down several thousand armor and several thousand HP without Savage Defense active to compensate.
How big is the nerf? In the comparison below I'm running the exact same gear set and the exact same talent build with the exception of Primal Gore's substitution for Omen of Clarity for testing purposes (neither talent has any effect on the numbers below). I am not rocking full best-in-slot gear due to abysmal luck with drops and giving the initial drops of Noth's bracers and Loatheb's boots to our Rogue (having to compete with Rogues for tanking gear is one of the most irritating facets of our collective Wrath experience). I'm also running a fairly stam-heavy set as much of it has to be used in my Sarth 3D tanking kit. While I'm not particularly pleased about that, I'm also not a Jewelcrafter or Leatherworker, and we don't have a Death Knight tank for Sarth 3D, so...yeah.
As an additional note, the small "buffs" you're seeing on the PTR version to dodge, attack power, and crit are the result of the new 2% stat increase from Improved Mark of the Wild. So, yes, unbuffed I have an additonal 13 AP, 0.29% dodge, and 0.20% crit as a result of IMotW. If you run a spec with 5/5 Furor instead of 2/2 IMotW and 3/5 Furor, then your attack power, crit, and dodge will not change between the live realms and the PTR.
UNBUFFED LIVE BEAR
33,853 armor (68.97% physical damage reduction before Protector of the Pack)
36.45% dodge
4854 attack power
35.06% crit
35,237 HP
UNBUFFED PTR BEAR
27,910 armor (64.69% physical damage reduction before Protector of the Pack)
36.74% dodge
4867 attack power
35.26% crit
33,427 HP
To Toskk's we go. Toskk's TTL calculator has been updated to reflect the contribution of Savage Defense (but not the HotW nerf, so I'm using 2/5 HotW at 12% stamina contribution here -- the difference between the 12% and 10% contributions doesn't have a statistically significant effect on TTL for the vast majority of current Wrath bosses), so it's safe to start running Theory Bear through her paces.
Her TTL calculation now clocks in at 10.842 seconds, with a Savage Defense shield proc of 1216.75 damage. That's pretty respectable, but if the HotW change never goes live, the TTL calculation clocks in at 11.429 seconds on an average raid boss. Essentially, the difference between a pre-nerf HotW bear and a post-nerf HotW bear is a little more than half a second to live in the same gear.
The problem isn't so much that we were nerfed; Savage Defense is going to be pretty damn good, especially if we find more +crit itemization on Ulduar gear. It's that we were nerfed without the intended compensatory mechanic going live. SD doesn't quite make up for HotW's stamina reduction, but half a second either way seems to fall pretty squarely into what Blizzard's willing to work with for tank TTL % differences. What I don't understand is why the armor nerf would go live without it, and then the HP nerf piled on top of it. The cumulative effect on bears is significantly nerfed mitigation on top of a lower HP pool, with Druids unable to make up the difference on the current PTR build in the absence of additional cooldowns or improved talents.
One reasonable explanation might be Blizzard's desire to see how much damage Druids actually take from progression raid bosses on the PTR before SD is actually implemented. Then again, bears aren't a particularly attractive choice for competitive raiding guilds on the PTR with both nerfs now live, and that may negatively affect just how much data emerges from this. So far I haven't seen a PTR kill with a Druid main tank, although it's possible I've just missed it.
What honestly worries me more than anything else is that we're being nerfed at the same time that healer mana regen mechanics are being changed so dramatically, to what ultimate effect concerning the ease of tank healing I'm not sure. Our avoidance is going to stay the lowest of all four tanks no matter what, and that necessarily bleeds into the total mana consumption of our heal teams. Our armor is going to be comparable to a decently-geared Death Knight in Frost Presence without their avoidance or cooldowns: our health is going to be comparable to a Blood-specced Death Knight without their avoidance or cooldowns: our physical damage mitigation is going to be comparable to a decently-geared Warrior or Paladin without their avoidance or, in the Warrior's case, their cooldowns: and our magic damage mitigation will continue to be worse than a Death Knight or Warrior's. On top of that, there's no buff or nerf (outside of the new Glyph of Berserk) that's aimed at addressing Bears' relatively weak capacity for burst or AoE threat.
Without additional cooldowns or tweaked talents, Bears are in kind of an iffy spot entering Tier 8 as things stand right now. Healers can afford to spam you with whatever they've got on current content, but when mana management becomes an issue, I'm somewhat concerned that the tank who is still designed to gobble most of it is going to be a significantly less attractive choice on top of providing less margin for healer error with a reduced health pool.
We'll see. I'm still interested to see if the new weighting or itemization toward +crit for Savage Defense assists with the threat issue, and we're still not far enough into Ulduar content or achievements to figure out whether bears are at a disadvantage (or advantage) in relation to other tanks.
Filed under: Druid, Patches, Analysis / Opinion, Features, Guides, Classes, Wrath of the Lich King






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Gelinna Feb 28th 2009 8:19PM
Dang
Maarick Mar 4th 2009 11:39AM
I thought i read somewhere that blizzard didnt want to force people into playing a certain way. lies? all lies? really?
I dont want to heal like a paladin, if i wanted to spam noursih, id be a paladin, but im a druid, i want to HOT
This change is terrible
how am i supposed to heal in pvp? like a paladin?
can i have plate then?
no,
cause im not paladin
DONT MAKE ME HEAL LIKE ONE!!!!!
seriously blizzard this nonsense better not go live
just cause you created a bad spell in nourush, the answer isnt force it to win by attrision,
either we use it cause its better or we dont cause it sucks,
seriously, what happened to not forcing people to play your stupid way
QQ
this game may have run its course
its just getting worse and worse and worse, do you guys work for Obama too?
Luis Feb 28th 2009 8:34PM
lol
Gutter Mar 1st 2009 4:59AM
Druids, the class that can be everything, compete for top charts, and still whines for every time balancing is doneĀ®
Soon whining in the guildchat near you!
Joester Feb 28th 2009 8:59PM
I'm soo going to laugh when the Druids that adds +16 Defense gems or Parry (AND YES THEY DO!) Will be QQing and adding +24 Stamina Gems :P
PeeWee Feb 28th 2009 9:10PM
I met a hunter who gemmed his pieces with +Spirit gems. Never underestimate the power of stupidity.
skrimyr Feb 28th 2009 9:33PM
fooooooo
fooooooo
thats the sound of me blowing the dust off my moonkin set
Zeplar Feb 28th 2009 9:47PM
I don't usually say this, but if it goes live like it is right now I'm probably going to cancel my account.
This Patch:
10% Stamina Nerf
33% Armor Nerf
Lifebloom Mana Nerf
Mana Regeneration Nerf
Regrowth Nerf
OUCH
Anyone flashing back to the start of BC? Great Bear Nerf?
Shisho2k Feb 28th 2009 11:28PM
Well I suspect they over-dialed it again like they usually do. They really just are happy to give druids insanely scalable %'s then when the top tier gear finds their slots they finally figure it out.
Ichabod Mar 1st 2009 4:47AM
Soon coming to Moonglade: The Great Bear Nerf Spririt a.k.a. Ghostcrawler.
jerzz80 Mar 4th 2009 2:27PM
your not the only one. aparently if u didnt create a Pally or DK, you shouldnt be viable.
Im a rogue and run arena with a druid. spare me your laughter.
it's bad enough that HOTs arent viable in Burstcraft. But a druid is as squishy as a priest - check that, even MORE squishy than a priest.
Ok, so druid HOT healing is gimped, armor/survivability gimped. What about CC? LOLOLOLOL....let.... me cast....this.....cy...clone......interupted....(dead).
cant kite anymore....every class has some kind of slow mechanic. and legts not forget that 50% of the arena toons are DK with death grip!
WOW is joke these days. its like Blizz has a contest on how to ruin it. Apparently the Pally and DK were implanted to start kick off the process. Nerfing Rogues, Druids, Locks, etc just phase 2.
I heard 2009 was going be the best year for console games anyway.
Kael Feb 28th 2009 11:11PM
I'm not going to say anything either way right now. Though losing 4k armor hurt, and I'm sure I'm not going to like the HP hit. I'm not going to judge it until after I see how SD works.
It could very well make up for it... that, or my dual specs will change from Tank/Resto to Boomkin/Resto... or maybe Boomkin PVE/Boomkin PvP
Evi Feb 28th 2009 11:14PM
It's the TEST realm. Stop freakin' out so much and give it some time. If you're actually on the test realm, testing the content, post about it on the PTR forums.
F.Denoms Feb 28th 2009 11:25PM
**GROWL**
Yep, I'm one miffed-off Chick! Seriously, I am tired of busting my big bear butt to spend hard-earned DKP, on what I manage to win from rogues, so that I can enjoy them and suddenly watch the "rules" change and my gear to SUDDENLY become useless vs what was full on heiny whoopin the day before! (sighs)
1. Already having to compete with "plate" tanks for main. (Regardless of how good I am, how quick I learn, how many hours I devote to learning the instance, how much gear I bust butt for, etc... In the end I am still a bear and that isnt good enough for hard core raiding.)
2. Already our avoidance is the lowest, hrm... (My dodge, stamina, and agility is through the roof, but wait, they CHANGED it all ALL OVER AGAIN. So, now, its Crit and AP, awesome here I go again. Musical Gear games with rogues... (*big sigh*))
3. Blizzard could work on something HELPFUL, perhaps give us an idol for tanking past lvl 74 that is practical to attain. outside of arenas, etc. (I realize Im asking so very much!)
If Blizzard doesn't want us to tank, pull our bear form... point and laugh. Just STOP pulling the change game on we bear tanks. This madness is nothing but an ILLUSION in the name of "balance," perhaps akin to trading freedoms for the illusions of safety and security! (*snarl*)
**FUSS**
~This is a vent brought to you by BB from Alleria's Strange Allies~
Yoyoma Mar 1st 2009 1:13AM
Whine like school girls, druids - you kids needed this nerf/balance tweak, whether you care to admit it or not. I've main-healed 50k HP bears in Naxx on flash heals alone during boss fights, even finding time to DPS in between, with no problem in the least.
And don't even get me started on the how much of a powerhouse a decently played druid in BGs and arenas is. Really, this balance tweak was much-needed, like it or not. Don't like it? Jump on the DK bandwagon, or roll a Moonkin, or hell, cancel your account.
Ferf Mar 1st 2009 3:04AM
@Yoyoma
WWS, screenshots, or it didn't happen.
None of the raid groups I run with and none of the hardcore guilds on my server use a bear as a MT. OT maybe if they're lucky, but never MT. That's always given to pallys, warriors, or DKs.
A powerhouse? As what? Feral? Boomkin? Resto druids haven't been a powerhouse in BGs and arenas since BC.
That being said, keep yer hats on people. It's still WAY early in the PTR. Although I will say if this thing goes live as is, I'm changing my main. Doubtful it will, just saying.
nadda Mar 1st 2009 1:56AM
Really? I only hit over 50k hp if i use the full frost resist set stacked with all hp gems. I take a huge hit to my threat and dodge, and i only use that set to tank sarth with 3d up. You must have run with a sub par dps group. How long did it take you to kill a boss? If you're druid was wearing that during a naxx run, he's a fail druid.
I agree with F.Denoms. I'm getting tired of being yanked around and regearing due to a mechanic change in each patch.
censorman Mar 1st 2009 1:23PM
says a paladin.
haha.
Frapter Mar 1st 2009 4:57PM
Well perhaps Yoyoma didn't put it the most delicately he could have, but he wasn't lying about the health of druid tanks. They scale hugely as it is now (our bear tank has from 50-55k HP in regular tanking gear with buffs, not pure stamina gear), but maybe that IS necessary to make up for survivability losses through avoidance and reduction.
Remember that 3.1 also introduces Ulduar, with another tier of raid gear. That means even crazier health levels, and Blizzard may just have decided that with 20% more stamina, bear tanks are getting to points of invincibility. I have absolutely no idea, but with gear from Ulduar I'd think druid tanks could have up to maybe 60-70k HP with the very best gear. That would be a nightmare for any PVP situation and probably any PVE situation.
None of us have numbers yet, so the argument is kinda silly, but I'd think that Blizzard would prefer to sacrifice scaling in Naxx to keep druid tanks from getting too powerful.
Nocturnal Mar 1st 2009 3:08AM
"Druids, the class that can be everything, compete for top charts, and still whines for every time balancing is doneĀ®"
Gutter, and what do you call Paladins? Aren't they too a class that can be everything... and usually, they are much more appreciated than druids - as tanks and dps at least.
When it comes to the healing point of view, it seems like Blizz want to force us into using Nourish... and, that takes us one step closer to leave our HoTs and become Paladins and Priests in tree form.
With the spirit changes, and the double cost of Lifebloom it looks a bit dark at the moment for restoration druids, I agree. And I do understand people being angry with Blizz for even coming up with such ideas - even though it's only on the PTR.
For you who haven't ever played as a druid, it's actually not the fact that they want to balance our class, it's about changing
the whole playstyle (and that there is a risk that they're throwing our new WotLK items out the window).