GC: Dual spec will not change design decisions
by Eliah Hecht 
Mar 2nd 2009 at 2:00PM
Maybe I should clarify: with respect to design decisions, they're pretending dual spec does not exist. Raids and talent trees will be balanced without reference to the fact that some players will be able to easily swap out. GC gives some specific examples of things the devs will not be doing, such as "Have a fight that requires 8 tanks, because you know, half the raid can change specs," or "Let Arms be the PvP tree and Fury be the PvE tree, because warriors can just switch out."
This is good news to many, including myself. Although if I had been asked to guess, I would probably have predicted they would take this direction, it's good to know that (for instance) raiders won't be effectively required to take spec X and spec Y in order to complete encounter Z. Dual specs are there to offer us more flexibility, not as another way the devs can make us jump through hoops. And I know I'll be taking it on at least a few of my characters.
Patch 3.1 brings us Ulduar, dual specs, significant changes to all the classes, and more! We've got you covered from top to bottom with our Guide to Patch 3.1.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
machoflaco Mar 2nd 2009 2:05PM
Still think that 1k gold is a little steep, but a great idea overall.
Deadly. Off. Topic. Mar 2nd 2009 2:14PM
It is pretty steep if you're planning to use it on a level 40 character.
I would have preferred it not being available at such a low level though... 70 would have made more sense ... possibly 60.
Jason Mar 2nd 2009 2:26PM
It's no worse than Cold Weather Flying. Get auctioneer, see what's selling best on your server and farm/craft that. I thought I'd never get the 12,500g I need to build the Chopper together, but after a month of working the AH I've done it.
If you don't like the AH there are daily quests all over Northrend that pay 9g to 13g each & you can farm rep while you're at it for most of them. A couple weeks of those alone and you should be alright for the 1K.
Horris Mar 2nd 2009 2:38PM
I think at 80 it will be worth the cost. I'm primarily a tanking warrior but lately I've been piecing together a DPS plate set from heroics whenever no one else needs the drops. Once dual-spec is available it'll be fun to be able to switch between tank and dps in the middle of a raid based on what is most needed.
MarkA Mar 2nd 2009 3:59PM
I think where they pain really comes in is for us with several characters vs. just one.
I have 7, two are 80 and the rest are either 70 or within three levels of 80.
I cannot afford to get dual-spec for them all. QQ more, right? Still, it would have been nice.
Then there's my friend with 9.5 level 80 characters. (He's still working on his DK.) Ouch.
Now, if they made it 1k and then unlock dual spec for the entire account... awesome.
machoflaco Mar 2nd 2009 4:01PM
Exactly the point I was making. I got a bunch of alts, but can't afford 1k gold each. Guess I'm gonna just concentrate on my pally and priest.
jerzz80 Mar 2nd 2009 4:08PM
1000K is jsut another way for Blizzard to keep the elite, elite and keep the average man down.
Blizzard Taxation with out representation is worthy of an outrage way bigger then the Boston Tea Party.
As if living in the World isnt expensive enough, we have to be taxed by Blizzard at every turn.
So, as in America, you have a rich class of people who will be unfazed by the 1000 gold tax, and you will have a middle class that will have have another feature breaking their bank.
Its sad when your government taxes its people but the hope is that in some way your contributing to a greater good. In this case WOW Gold, isnt real and thus only serves as monetary system that rewards those that enjoy the mini game of earing gold.
Its like Blizz pretends that everyone playing wow, has been playing since well before BC and has always been able to stack gold. Or they pretend that enchants, matts, repairs, re-specs, gear, mounts, item enhancements dont cost gold.
Placing 1000 Gold number on Dual Spec is just another way to force newer players to stop whatever they are doing to advance their toon to go earn gold. Unless, your one of the chosen people, that didnt have much to do during the end of BC so hunting gold everyday was their obsession.
When I quit WOW and never play another Blizzard game, its going to be because of these types of philosophies. way too much being dictated by an out of touch group of elitists that place way too much value in certain parts of the game and not enough value in others.
So go ahead. Tax the citizens of WOW for the sake of it. create more dissatisfaction. Keep polarizing the the leets and casual players. Its a joke. the obsessed leet, with no lives and 365 days of play time go unphazed while the regular player struggles to keep his head above water. It wouldnt be so bad if the leets didnt act like complete jerk-offfs to the casual players. But now its just another have and have not situation.
tomhennessy Mar 2nd 2009 4:27PM
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jerzz80 said...
1000K is jsut another way for Blizzard to keep the elite, elite and keep the average man down.
Blizzard Taxation with out representation is worthy of an outrage way bigger then the Boston Tea Party.
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You're kidding, right?
a. 1k gold is nothing
b. if you have 12 alts at 80, then you should have the gold just from levelling
c. your lack of perspective and understand of the history of our nation sickens and disgusts me.
max_bmw Mar 2nd 2009 4:42PM
Wow, since Wrath came out I have never seen such a bunch of whiners and crybabies expecting everything handed to them on a silver platter. 1000g is not steep. 5000g (as epic flying is) would not be steep.
I have no sympathy for people crying about their x number alts. Honestly, there isn't enough time in the day for more than 3 level 80s alts to be played to the extent that dual specs would even be helpful. If you disagree, then just run all 10 of your level 80 alts through all 25 daily quests everyday for a week before 3.1 hits, then they can all go buy dual spec.
My guess is that the people crying about dual specs costing too much are the same ones with multiple dps alts who never tank and never heal and just want yet another excuse to say "but I need it for my offset".
machoflaco Mar 2nd 2009 5:00PM
I agree there should definitely be a price, 1k gold isn't bad to get when you are 80 and well geared. But when you only got 2 level 80s and several alts, getting 1k gold for each gets expensive. And unlike most of you people leaving negative comments, I don't have 40 hours a week to farm that kind of gold. Even if I did, how boring is that?? If the price scaled with level I think it would be more fair, that's all. It's not whining, just wishful thinking.
jbodar Mar 2nd 2009 6:26PM
@jerzz80
I weep for the future.
@machoflaco
The game is perfectly playable without dual-specs pre-80. You're doing it right now. It comes down to how many alts can one invest time in to get 80, get geared, and start raiding -- where dual-specs will really matter? If someone only play a few hours a week, then why would he need multiple 80 alts with dual-spec? If you're completely new, skip epic flight until last -- just get Flight, Cold-weather Flight, and Dual-Spec.
Aaron A. Mar 5th 2009 3:40PM
max_bmw said:
"If you disagree [that not all of your alts need dual-spec], then just run all 10 of your level 80 alts through all 25 daily quests everyday for a week"
A week? More like three days. The most common cash reward for a level 80 daily is 13g 23s. Multiply that by 25 quests, and you get 330g 75s, not counting drops. My weekday routine includes a dozen Ymirheim/Skybreaker/Shadow Vault dailies, completed in about an hour, for which I net almost 200g. I figure most 80's can raise the money with 5-8 hours of income-producing labor, less if they know a good farming route. Surely you can spare five hours between now and whenever 3.1 drops (I'd say you have at least a month.) And if you don't have dual-spec on zero day, so what? Get it later, after somebody else deals with the inevitable launch-day bugs.
Les Bleus have said the same thing: if you can't put in the time to raise 1,000g for each of your ten alts, maybe you don't use all of those characters enough to merit dual-speccing.
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=15198918444&pageNo=1&sid=1#11
As stated in the article above, nobody *needs* dual specs. They're there for people who want the flexibility, or who are already spending 100g a week on respecs; they are not a requirement to progress through further content. They are not required for all of your alts. They won't be required in PUG's, unless the leader is a real control freak. About the only person other than yourself who can legitimately expect you to dual-spec is your guild's raiding or battleground leader, in which case he/she needs to clear the calendar a bit so you have time to earn some money.
Muse Mar 2nd 2009 2:05PM
I don't think anyone seriously thought that they would.
Jay in Oregon Mar 2nd 2009 2:20PM
The developers have said that dual spec is intended to be a convenience, not a necessity (see also: swift flying mount) and hearing them directly address the some-trees-are-meant-for-specific-roles possbility is reassuring to me.
I wasn't worried so much for things like the "we'll design an encounter that that requires 8 tanks" example, as a mindset developing along the lines of "Frost isn't designed to be viable for raiding; Mages should just swap out to an FFB or Fire/Arcane spec to raid".
I like being a Frost mage and I like to raid. I'm lucky that Frost has been a viable enough spec to run the current content with, and I don't want to be sidelined or have to respec/dual-spec in order to progress into Ulduar.
(Now if I can just figure out why this other Frost Mage I run with does about 300 DPS more than I do...)
Max Mar 2nd 2009 3:38PM
frost raiding is fail raiding. for only 50g, you can boost your damage by at least 500 dps. What are you thinking?
Jay in Oregon Mar 2nd 2009 7:53PM
I'm thinking that I like the Frost spec and I like to raid, and I'm trying to maximize my performance in the latter without giving up the former. I'm not hardcore and the people I run with are not either. I am well aware of the current limitations of Frost raiding, and I'm eager to see if the proposed 3.1 changes on the PTR are going to help.
The replenishment effect will be a snap in 10-mans: Blizzard has said they're now designing encounters with the idea that you will have replenishment in your raid, and saying I get replenishment when I cast Frostbolt is kinda like saying I get replenishment when I breathe since frost raiding consists 99% of Frostbolt spam.
From what people are saying, the new Glyph of Ice Lance damage on bosses isn't good enough yet to justify weaving it into a Fingers of Frost/Shatter combo. I haven't had a chance to test it because people seem reluctant to take someone who is only sporting ilevel 200 gear along...
If you have something constructive to add that doesn't resort to the very tired "fail" meme, I'm all ears.
Darak Mar 2nd 2009 2:14PM
I still imagine that while there may not be encounters that require people to switch, the new flexibility will be used. I think its safe to assume that most priests will have a healing spec and a dps spec, etc. Therefore, while it may not "require" classes to swap, there will most certainly be fights that favor healing over dps or vice versa. The presence of dual spec could also factor into encounter balancing rather than design.
To do so IMO would be a waste. Then again, I'm not the biggest fan of Dual Spec so my opinion is fairly biased.
Robert M Mar 2nd 2009 2:46PM
THANK YOU!!!
I thought I was the only one that believed this. No one expects Blizzard to adjsut encounters (or I didn't think anyone did, though Schramm apprently did on the podcast) that require 8 tanks.
People do expect certain encounters to be more healer intensive or off tank oriented. In this, there will continue to be min-maxing of raid slots for certain high end (and I mean the very high end) raiding guilds.
Though the idea in practice seems somewhat unfair to the non-hybrid classes, this decision (and others like it) do not effect the average non-casual wow player.
People need to acknowledge the tiers of players that wow has on the PVE side of the game. There are high end raiders, lower end raiders who make it a point to raid every week, but sometimes have real life things that can't be avoided, and then there are even lesser (if you want to call it that) until you fall of into total casual player who is on maybe a couple hours a week.
Most of these players cryign foul are like Joe the plumber and taxes. They are all concerned about the day they might be making 250K and be bumberd into another tax bracket that they dont understand that dual specs are intended to help them the most.
Let the min maxers do that, and everyone else should stop pretending like they are in that couple percent of players who saw Sunwell pre-nerf.
Aaron A. Mar 5th 2009 4:11PM
It's hard to make any general claims, but I know that at least a few raiding guilds currently swap players out between battles. If the next fight needs more healers, a DPS or an off-tank gets /kicked and has to wait outside, listening on Vent as the raid proceeds without him. Experienced raiders are used to swapping skills for each fight, but as it currently stands, they do it by swapping players.
If the group is really well organized, they can plan ahead: "For Tuesday's Zul'whatever run, we'll need 13 DPS, at least 6 ranged; 3 full-time healers; 1 MT; 2 full-time OT's; 3 healer/DPS; 1 OT/DPS; and two whatevers (CC would be nice, and I'd like to see at least two Shaman somewhere in the group)". Then people can step forward to fill those roles, knowing whether or not they'll be expected to switch.
Still, I can see how the "pure" DPS classes, like Rogues, might not benefit from this as much as other classes if they don't PvP.
Tim Mar 2nd 2009 2:15PM
Why is there no cooldown? That's the part I find shocking. Hybrid classes get gigantic functionality boosts, especially pallies. No fair.