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All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsQuests added to mob tooltips on the PTR
by Mike Schramm 
Mar 3rd 2009 at 5:00PM
The Godmother over at ALT:ernative ducked into the PTR recently, and noticed something new: Blizzard is apparently testing adding Questhelper-style notes to tooltips of the quest-related mobs you come across. This looks so familiar that I thought it was an addon, but no, apparently Blizzard really is planning to tell you when a mob you're looking at happens to be the target of a quest.It shocked me for a second -- not only is this dumbing down the questing game even further (maybe someday we will have a large red arrow pointing out a quest target from zones away), but it seems to be an awfully big break in immersion. Blizzard is basically telling you that "this is the mob you need, right here," and actually reading the quest text becomes even less necessary.
But then I realized that tooltips themselves aren't exactly paragons of game immersion -- it's already a little jump in the reality of the game to see a box with a mob's name and level whenever you mouse over it. Tooltips are already where the UI meets the road, so to speak. And as for the "dumbing down" of the game, most experienced players already had this functionality through addons like Questhelper and MonkeyQuest anyway (and if you do plan to complain that this makes things way too easy, make sure Questhelper is out of your Addon directory before you start typing). But if the tips stay in the game when the patch goes live, questing will be that much easier for people who stick to the basic UI.
Filed under: Patches, Items, Analysis / Opinion, Quests, Leveling, Wrath of the Lich King
Reader Comments (Page 3 of 4)
bunny Mar 4th 2009 4:57PM
they skip the second half of the article, and then make fun of others for their reading comprehension of quest text...probably the same people who complain over and over in trade chat that people everyone else is wasting space by not posting WTS/WTB ads. disclaimer: i do think trade chat should be used for trade and that general chat should be made capital-wide in cities.
i think it is a nice feature, especially since it can be toggled for the purists. but personally, i got sick of reading most quests a few levels in when i realized there were only a couple quest formulas for the majority of quests. there are very few quests that are truly unique, which i also think is understandable...the game has a huge number of quests at this point.
Aiggan Mar 3rd 2009 5:33PM
Maybe you can turn it off it you wanted to quest without it.
seanfury Mar 3rd 2009 5:36PM
Every person I play WoW with uses QuestHelper. You know why? Because we don't play on RP realms.
Eversor Mar 4th 2009 5:40AM
I play on an RP realm and use Questhelper. I am lazy and like to be pointed the way, however I RP as well.
mirilene Mar 3rd 2009 5:46PM
I read the whole thing. I think some of the other comments about his attitude are spot on.
I don't buy for a single minute that "hardcore" people read the quests. I know a few dudes who have 4+ level 80's that are raid ready and not a single one of them has read a quest in 2 years. they get those MFing addons that do exactly what he's complaining about (big arrows they can follow around and exact coordinates, etc) so they can level in the least amount of time with the least amount of effort and/or they've simply done the quests so many times that they don't have to read it, they just remember where to go.
This is a total "get off my lawn!" moment. Its very nice that he can admit it might be a useful feature for some people, but clearly the first thing that comes through his head about changes to the game is "newbs, dumbing down, omg, end of the world!" And thats kind of sad.
mezpin Mar 3rd 2009 5:54PM
As long as you can turn it off (for the people who don't like it), that's a great feature. While I love what QuestHelper does, I could live without the bloated codebase.
Dreadskull Mar 3rd 2009 5:54PM
Is it really surprising that they're dumbing this game down further with the average audience they're aiming at?
Grendalsh Mar 3rd 2009 6:03PM
Never used quest helper. Have a guildmate that used it soloing.. once she joined our guild she turned it off. Her biggest complaint about it now is she has no idea what was going on for those levels - she just followed the marching ants. So, when we discuss lore or storylines from those areas, she's clueless.
I guess if all you want for your $15/mo is to skip thru 70 levels of game so you can farm raids, that's your money. Me? I want a quest to be a QUEST! I already have little lines in the road to follow and project plans to blindly follow in real life.
Worcester Mar 3rd 2009 6:47PM
Quest HELPER, not Quest DOER.
Just because you use it does not mean that you have to blindly run through the quests without paying attention to the detail. You can, in fact, do both. You can at least skim the quest details, even with addons and the fast quest text.
While I might agree that GPS style arrows on the screen are (for me) a bit too much, the ants on the map don't bother me. Why? It's a freaking magic map to begin with! It knows exactly where you are, and the names of all the important places around you. Who drew this map anyway? And why is it blank until I go someplace new?
Anyway, my magic map just happens to have an extra enchant that marks nearby points and people of interest. It also suggests a travel plan, which I routinely (intended) ignore.
PopeJamal Mar 3rd 2009 6:09PM
"It shocked me for a second -- not only is this dumbing down the questing game even further (maybe someday we will have a large red arrow pointing out a quest target from zones away), but it seems to be an awfully big break in immersion. Blizzard is basically telling you that "this is the mob you need, right here," and actually reading the quest text becomes even less necessary."
Dumbing down? Dumbing down?!? This, from a website that PRIDES itself for releasing a guide for...EVERYTHING. You're kidding right?
"Big break in immersion". yeah, like the gnome rogue named "poopsnatcher", "lolsausage", or the countless Nelfs named Sephir doesn't break immersion. Or the countless mobs glitched into logs or walls that "EVADE!" everything, or the fact that a large portion of the Horde population are BULL PEOPLE. Do you know what kind of skeleton you'd need to allow a bull to walk upright and give it THUMBS. Yes, they have thumbs! Not to mention all the Tier-X shoulder pads with floating planets, and lava rocks, and stuff like that. But you want to complain about "breaking immersion" as if this is supposed to be some ambulatory bovine simulator "for realz".
Give me a f'ing break...
I've already got a job and I don't need another one. Bring on the built in mods I say. And if I want to experience something "realistic", then I go outside and pretend that people aren't morons instead of staring at my computer screen in my pajamas.
It's a game, not a religion, not a simulator, and not a way of life.
Shen Mar 3rd 2009 6:24PM
There is a difference between immersion and realism. Your examples of "poopsnatcher" & "lolsausage" were good examples of breaks in immersion. But taurens are part of the game, part of the lore, part of what brings you into the game.
shawn Mar 3rd 2009 6:33PM
I'm glad to see this sort of thing be implemented. Of course I'm probably in a very small minority when it comes to my opinions on grind in mmos. Coming from Guild Wars, where the max level is 20 and you can hit it in a day, I longed for the ability to just create a pve character which starts at the max level, just as you can with pvp-only characters. Why waste a day going through content you've already seen? Just create a max level and map-travel instantly to the start of the real content. (Three expansions + free content updates full of level 20 content. The game only starts at max level, there's no need to raise level caps or grind.)
This grind "problem" is made worse by my rl-friends/guildies all being level 80, whereas I only started playing in January. Where it not for the pointless timesinks, I could be having a hell of a lot more enjoyment in the game, because collecting murloc heads on my own sure isn't the best of pasttimes. Due to that, in terms of gameplay and quests/grind, WoW feels incredibly archaic sometimes, and anything that can speed that up those boring bits is welcome. - Speaking of which, hell, how about removing the blatant timesink of flight, and include an option to double the cost of a flight path to teleport there instantly? Seriously, what does having to go afk for 5-10 minutes while you fly around really accomplish? Immersion? To hell with that, I'd much rather *play the freaking game I'm paying for.*
But I digress. Long story short: Good addition. Let's hope Blizzard continues adding more fun content, while minimizing the time spent on grinding and timesinks. I already have one job - I'd rather not pay to play something that feels like a second one.
Palerider Mar 3rd 2009 6:41PM
I'm reading a lot of comments directly comparing this new addition to Quest Helper, and I'm seeing one very important distinction.
This new addition is a part of the mob tooltip. You not only have to be near the mob in question, you have to mouse over it. Not only does this mean you have to have already found the general location of said mob, you have to actually find the mob itselfso you can mouse over, not even /target can save you.
This is a far cry from a big red arrow telling you "Go over there and kill 12 of those." It is essentially just an improvement to the already standard quest tracker, it is a streamlining of functionality so that you no longer need to keep flipping through your quest log to see how many Hungry Worg's you still need, only to find out that you were supposed to be going after Starving Worgs.
This is not quest helper. It will not help you find your objective unless your method of searching is running around blindly and mousing over everything you find. Stop complaining, stop panicking, this isn't dumbing down, it's streamlining.
Braundo Mar 3rd 2009 6:45PM
Agreed. I would be very glad to have the tooltip indicator as is shown in the screenshot, but I think that Mike was overreacting by calling this "dumbing down the questing game" when all it's doing is keeping you from having to open your quest log all the time. You still have to find the mobs on your own :)
Manatank Mar 3rd 2009 6:49PM
"I never said most people don't use Questhelper. What I was protesting was their assumption that Questhelper is one of the indicators of an advanced player, which they were making."
You quoted the specific line where the post mentions: "Most experienced players use Questhelper..." and then stated they were wrong. So, you in fact did say that they were wrong when they stated that most experienced players use Questhelper.
I understand that neither you nor the original poster care much about facts or absolutes, but you are undeniably wrong here.
Manatank Mar 3rd 2009 6:50PM
"I never said most people don't use Questhelper. What I was protesting was their assumption that Questhelper is one of the indicators of an advanced player, which they were making."
You quoted the specific line where the post mentions: "Most experienced players use Questhelper..." and then stated they were wrong. So, you in fact did say that they were wrong when they stated that most experienced players use Questhelper.
I understand that neither you nor the original poster care much about facts or absolutes, but you are undeniably wrong here.
Cephas Mar 3rd 2009 11:52PM
3.1 is seriously going to break a lot of addons.
Ametrine Mar 3rd 2009 7:38PM
I find this to be quite helpful. Can't tell you how many times I've been grinding on a pack of identical-looking mobs only to learn later it was the Rotting Zombies to the southwest and not the slightly-differently-named Decayed Zombies to the southeast that I needed to kill for the vaguely-identified quest I'd been given.
Skyshot Mar 3rd 2009 8:25PM
The argument that this new addition will make the game too easy, lose immersion, you will never have to read your quest log anymore, and that having to do all of those things is enjoyable because it is difficult, I can't agree with.
I like reading some of my quests when I am in the middle of a chain and I notice something about it that makes me go: "Whoa never had to kill these guys before, wonder whats goin on here". sometimes it is enjoyable. But when you are on your 8th lvl character thats lvl 70+ it gets old.
lets not forget that not every quest has some beautifully told story behind it. There are quite a few that are simply 'kill x' or 'collect y' just becasue it will give you xp or cash.
I have found that the best way to easily find quests worth reading are ones that have a very complex way of completing it. too complex for quest addons to help you with. the ones where you have to read it just to know HOW to complete it usually have a pretty awesome reason behind doing it (or a funny one, which is also good). Also, quests that you recieve from items that you get off of looted enemies can lead to some pretty awesome quest chains.
despite all of that, though, after doing the fun quests several times you tend to not care anymore. and if with all the quests you do its easy to forget one you have comepleted before. Its not like this new tooltip will have anything to do with that though because like someone said earlier all it does is streamline completion of a quest that you have probably already read, located, and started trying to complete.
as far as immersion goes, the tooltip is already out of that becasue of the very concept of what a tooltip is. if it was directly over the mobs head and never left even while not selecet then it would take away from immersion. as far as for veteran players, while i cant speak for all of us, i havent been 'immersed' in the game since after my first year of playing. That immersion thing wears off after youve raided MC 50 times to get the last peice of your raid set. I just kinda stopped thinkin about that aspect of the game a while ago (that doesnt mean i dont fully enjoy some of the new locations and quests put in every expasion, but i dont get immersed in it like when i first logged in after watching the vanilla WoW cenimatic).
FifthDream Mar 3rd 2009 8:28PM
A UI/HUD is just a game's way of telling you what your character already knows. Your toon knows s/he needs 5 more mobs to complete his/her goal. The tooltip is just there to remind *you*.