Shifting Perspectives: Tanks, "Wrath," and crushing blows, part 2
The former has the cooldowns to manage the new form of "crushing blow." The latter has the HP to survive it.
A cynical person might say that early raid achievements (particularly Sarth 3D) were designed to make the prospect of a Death Knight tank more palatable to the entrenched tanking corps of serious raiding guilds. A very cynical person might say that early raid achievements were designed to force a Death Knight tank down the throats of raiding guilds that wouldn't otherwise want them.
Warriors and Paladins get shut out because their classes were designed to handle the kind of burst melee damage that is no longer in the game. Indeed, the whole notion of stacking dodge, parry, and block is intrinsically tied to the now-vanished melee crushing blow. The only reason that Druids are able to compete with Death Knights is, while our magic mitigation is poor, stamina doesn't discriminate against the type of damage you're receiving. We do what we've always done -- soak the damage and pray our healers have had their caffeine for the night.

The Druid problem
This is why many Druids find it upsetting to read gloating comments concerning the upcoming Heart of the Wild change, and why the nerf is a frightening prospect. I would argue that the increased -- and increasing -- difficulty we have stacking armor is the logical result of a world without crushing blows, and that Blizzard was right to scale us back. With so much armor, Druids faced the real prospect of being insanely overpowered against melee damage that's piddling in comparison to what we once survived. It's depressing to be nerfed, and still more depressing that it seems to be happening little by little and patch after patch, but it is also the correct approach.
You could make a fairly compelling argument that item points spent on armor for Druid tanks are almost wasted outside of appropriate scaling, especially when those points could go to +agility, or +dodge, +stamina, or (with the upcoming Savage Defense) +crit. We keep arming and arming ourselves against a huge melee blow that's just never going to come, and those item points could have been put to better use elsewhere, especially given the Druid's continuing problem with snap and AoE threat.
Do not misunderstand me. We still need armor, and a lot of armor at that, in the absence of parry and block. We just don't need it to the point of surviving that 15% chance per melee hit anymore.

Druids still have too much health!
Druid tanks are not the problem. The real problems are that:
a). The most important content in the game is ideally tanked by the only class (the Death Knight) designed to handle burst magic damage.
b). Two older tank classes (the Warrior and Paladin) are not particularly well suited to how guilds "progress" in achievement-oriented content.
c). One older tank class (the Druid), while not optimal for this content, is capable of surviving it due to an accident of design. Our health is being nerfed in 3.1, the scaling of said health is being nerfed, on top of yet another armor nerf whose compensatory mechanic (Savage Defense) does nothing to address the Druid's already poor magic mitigation.
That a voidwalker can substitute for a Druid on Sartharion 3D (and arguably does a better job) is no great recommendation for the mechanics of Druid tanking.

Do we give Warriors and Paladins more health?
It wouldn't hurt, but Warriors and Paladins are also designed as avoidance tanks. Avoidance is vastly superior to health in TTL (Time To Live) calculations for nearly every situation, barring that of the burst magic damage described above. Over the course of most encounters, Warriors and Paladins take less damage than Druids and Death Knights (although the former takes less damage per individual hit, and the latter is more likely to avoid said hit), and if you picked any random encounter out of a hat, a Warrior remains the best overall choice for it with respect to Time To Live. This is one of the reasons why Warriors are still the default choice for the main tank position in competitive raiding guilds.
To significantly increase Warrior and Paladin health pools without altering anything else, concurrent to nerfing Druid health, would come within shouting distance of rendering the Druid tank obsolete. Druids have traditionally stacked health in order to compensate for not having the avoidance of shield tanks and approximate their Time To Live count. That this enabled them to live through main-tanking a Sarth 3D is, as I've noted, entirely an accident. The encounter is clearly prejudiced toward a Death Knight tank.

So change Warriors and Paladins. More health, less avoidance.
That is precisely the set of circumstances that have made Druids the least favorite healing choice, and it's a particularly risky move with mana regen mechanics being altered in 3.1. Druids are already in the unenviable position of being the tank who guzzles the most healer mana. Do we really want to spread this considerabe weakness to more tanking classes in an age where healers will have to watch their mana consumption and Lifebloom stacks are probably out of the picture?
Do we bring crushing blows back and nix burst magic damage?
No, at least to the former. Unless you completely alter the mechanics of Death Knight tanking (which I suppose is a possibility, but probably an unwelcome one to developers), there is no way for them to become uncrushable. They would need a significantly higher health pool, and/or significantly higher armor, to survive crushing blows without being destroyed if a physical mitigation cooldown isn't up. They are the tank with the least physical mitigation and smallest health pool on average, and that would horribly magnify this weakness. But Death Knights are already a nightmare to deal with in PvP without giving them additional health, armor, or cooldowns. Therefore it seems fair to conclude that the return of the crushing blow would be a nigh-insurmountable obstacle for Death Knight tanks, and that the most obvious solutions would upset PvP balance still further.
Reducing magic burst helps Warriors, Paladins, and Druids. Increasing melee burst hurts Death Knights. Reducing burst magic damage seems a little more reasonable insofar as 3 out of 4 tanking classes have serious problems with it, but also makes encounters less challenging and fun from the perspective of both tanking and healing. A compromise of sorts might be reached with more, smaller magic hits being dealt over the course of a fight, or giving the older tanking classes additional activated cooldowns to survive Wrath's version of the "crushing blow." Again, from a PvP perspective this is an issue, but the Paladin in particular is hobbled with respect to an incoming, unavoidable magic hit.

Can we rework existing mitigation/avoidance mechanics to be more useful for Wrath raids?
Assuming that burst magic damage will remain the rule rather than the exception in 3.1 and beyond, allowing dodge/parry/block to slowly increase magic mitigation strikes me as potentially useful. I do not suggest that it necessarily scales to the point of outshining the Death Knight's particular strength, but it would be a valuable contribution to the survivability of the 3 "classic tanks" in Wrath raid content without measurably impacting PvP balance, as +defense, +dodge, +parry, and +block are unattractive stats for battlegrounds and arena and are unavailable on PvP gear anyway. Additionally, if this also increased spell resistance, it would help the Warrior/Paladin/Death Knight problem of remaining defense-capped in resist gear. The scaling would need to be tuned carefully, as each "classic tank" values these stats somewhat differently (Druids in particular are not well served by scaling with nonexistent +parry and +block, and little to no +defense) but it might be a usable option outside of fundamentally altering game mechanics elsewhere or allowing the "classic tanks" to struggle in encounters with heavy magic damage.
Of course, if Ulduar encounters and achievements are not built around the kind of burst magic damage that characterize Sarth 3D and Malygos, then this is probably unnecessary.

In conclusion:
From my perspective as a Druid tank, the problems of Warriors and Paladins on important Wrath raid content arise from how dodge/parry/block are still somewhat oriented toward the obsolete crushing blow. However, in the absence of the crushing blow, magic burst seems to be the most obvious choice to make tanking and healing require skill in Wrath raids, thus unhappily prejudicing encounters toward the only tank capable of mitigating such damage. That Druids are capable of surviving an encounter that is most ideally tanked by a Death Knight is due only to the usefulness of stamina in the very narrow context of constant burst magic damage.
I do not think it is a good idea to nerf Death Knight tanks for PvE content, but I also don't think it's a good idea to allow the 3 classic tanks to perform so poorly against this damage, or to nerf the Druid's last defense against all forms of burst. How all tanks mitigate and avoid damage needs to change to reflect how encounters have moved past one unwelcome form of burst damage to another.
A cynical person might say that early raid achievements (particularly Sarth 3D) were designed to make the prospect of a Death Knight tank more palatable to the entrenched tanking corps of serious raiding guilds. A very cynical person might say that early raid achievements were designed to force a Death Knight tank down the throats of raiding guilds that wouldn't otherwise want them.
Warriors and Paladins get shut out because their classes were designed to handle the kind of burst melee damage that is no longer in the game. Indeed, the whole notion of stacking dodge, parry, and block is intrinsically tied to the now-vanished melee crushing blow. The only reason that Druids are able to compete with Death Knights is, while our magic mitigation is poor, stamina doesn't discriminate against the type of damage you're receiving. We do what we've always done -- soak the damage and pray our healers have had their caffeine for the night.

The Druid problem
This is why many Druids find it upsetting to read gloating comments concerning the upcoming Heart of the Wild change, and why the nerf is a frightening prospect. I would argue that the increased -- and increasing -- difficulty we have stacking armor is the logical result of a world without crushing blows, and that Blizzard was right to scale us back. With so much armor, Druids faced the real prospect of being insanely overpowered against melee damage that's piddling in comparison to what we once survived. It's depressing to be nerfed, and still more depressing that it seems to be happening little by little and patch after patch, but it is also the correct approach.
You could make a fairly compelling argument that item points spent on armor for Druid tanks are almost wasted outside of appropriate scaling, especially when those points could go to +agility, or +dodge, +stamina, or (with the upcoming Savage Defense) +crit. We keep arming and arming ourselves against a huge melee blow that's just never going to come, and those item points could have been put to better use elsewhere, especially given the Druid's continuing problem with snap and AoE threat.
Do not misunderstand me. We still need armor, and a lot of armor at that, in the absence of parry and block. We just don't need it to the point of surviving that 15% chance per melee hit anymore.

Druids still have too much health!
Druid tanks are not the problem. The real problems are that:
a). The most important content in the game is ideally tanked by the only class (the Death Knight) designed to handle burst magic damage.
b). Two older tank classes (the Warrior and Paladin) are not particularly well suited to how guilds "progress" in achievement-oriented content.
c). One older tank class (the Druid), while not optimal for this content, is capable of surviving it due to an accident of design. Our health is being nerfed in 3.1, the scaling of said health is being nerfed, on top of yet another armor nerf whose compensatory mechanic (Savage Defense) does nothing to address the Druid's already poor magic mitigation.
That a voidwalker can substitute for a Druid on Sartharion 3D (and arguably does a better job) is no great recommendation for the mechanics of Druid tanking.

Do we give Warriors and Paladins more health?
It wouldn't hurt, but Warriors and Paladins are also designed as avoidance tanks. Avoidance is vastly superior to health in TTL (Time To Live) calculations for nearly every situation, barring that of the burst magic damage described above. Over the course of most encounters, Warriors and Paladins take less damage than Druids and Death Knights (although the former takes less damage per individual hit, and the latter is more likely to avoid said hit), and if you picked any random encounter out of a hat, a Warrior remains the best overall choice for it with respect to Time To Live. This is one of the reasons why Warriors are still the default choice for the main tank position in competitive raiding guilds.
To significantly increase Warrior and Paladin health pools without altering anything else, concurrent to nerfing Druid health, would come within shouting distance of rendering the Druid tank obsolete. Druids have traditionally stacked health in order to compensate for not having the avoidance of shield tanks and approximate their Time To Live count. That this enabled them to live through main-tanking a Sarth 3D is, as I've noted, entirely an accident. The encounter is clearly prejudiced toward a Death Knight tank.

So change Warriors and Paladins. More health, less avoidance.
That is precisely the set of circumstances that have made Druids the least favorite healing choice, and it's a particularly risky move with mana regen mechanics being altered in 3.1. Druids are already in the unenviable position of being the tank who guzzles the most healer mana. Do we really want to spread this considerabe weakness to more tanking classes in an age where healers will have to watch their mana consumption and Lifebloom stacks are probably out of the picture?
Do we bring crushing blows back and nix burst magic damage?
No, at least to the former. Unless you completely alter the mechanics of Death Knight tanking (which I suppose is a possibility, but probably an unwelcome one to developers), there is no way for them to become uncrushable. They would need a significantly higher health pool, and/or significantly higher armor, to survive crushing blows without being destroyed if a physical mitigation cooldown isn't up. They are the tank with the least physical mitigation and smallest health pool on average, and that would horribly magnify this weakness. But Death Knights are already a nightmare to deal with in PvP without giving them additional health, armor, or cooldowns. Therefore it seems fair to conclude that the return of the crushing blow would be a nigh-insurmountable obstacle for Death Knight tanks, and that the most obvious solutions would upset PvP balance still further.
Reducing magic burst helps Warriors, Paladins, and Druids. Increasing melee burst hurts Death Knights. Reducing burst magic damage seems a little more reasonable insofar as 3 out of 4 tanking classes have serious problems with it, but also makes encounters less challenging and fun from the perspective of both tanking and healing. A compromise of sorts might be reached with more, smaller magic hits being dealt over the course of a fight, or giving the older tanking classes additional activated cooldowns to survive Wrath's version of the "crushing blow." Again, from a PvP perspective this is an issue, but the Paladin in particular is hobbled with respect to an incoming, unavoidable magic hit.

Can we rework existing mitigation/avoidance mechanics to be more useful for Wrath raids?
Assuming that burst magic damage will remain the rule rather than the exception in 3.1 and beyond, allowing dodge/parry/block to slowly increase magic mitigation strikes me as potentially useful. I do not suggest that it necessarily scales to the point of outshining the Death Knight's particular strength, but it would be a valuable contribution to the survivability of the 3 "classic tanks" in Wrath raid content without measurably impacting PvP balance, as +defense, +dodge, +parry, and +block are unattractive stats for battlegrounds and arena and are unavailable on PvP gear anyway. Additionally, if this also increased spell resistance, it would help the Warrior/Paladin/Death Knight problem of remaining defense-capped in resist gear. The scaling would need to be tuned carefully, as each "classic tank" values these stats somewhat differently (Druids in particular are not well served by scaling with nonexistent +parry and +block, and little to no +defense) but it might be a usable option outside of fundamentally altering game mechanics elsewhere or allowing the "classic tanks" to struggle in encounters with heavy magic damage.
Of course, if Ulduar encounters and achievements are not built around the kind of burst magic damage that characterize Sarth 3D and Malygos, then this is probably unnecessary.

In conclusion:
From my perspective as a Druid tank, the problems of Warriors and Paladins on important Wrath raid content arise from how dodge/parry/block are still somewhat oriented toward the obsolete crushing blow. However, in the absence of the crushing blow, magic burst seems to be the most obvious choice to make tanking and healing require skill in Wrath raids, thus unhappily prejudicing encounters toward the only tank capable of mitigating such damage. That Druids are capable of surviving an encounter that is most ideally tanked by a Death Knight is due only to the usefulness of stamina in the very narrow context of constant burst magic damage.
I do not think it is a good idea to nerf Death Knight tanks for PvE content, but I also don't think it's a good idea to allow the 3 classic tanks to perform so poorly against this damage, or to nerf the Druid's last defense against all forms of burst. How all tanks mitigate and avoid damage needs to change to reflect how encounters have moved past one unwelcome form of burst damage to another.






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 8)
Riotpills Mar 3rd 2009 9:39PM
Solution: Get rid of Dk's.
Racalvin Mar 3rd 2009 11:29PM
In what way would removing dks be useful? They offer another tanking class that, might I say, is very successful if your tank actually knows how to play. Whilst leveling my dk, I could never find a tank, so I decided to tank and love it. Too many ret Paladins and Fury Warriors out there, not to mention the LACK of feral druids that tank rather then dps.
So, in what way would getting rid of dks help?
Heilig Mar 4th 2009 4:04AM
"So, in what way would getting rid of DK's help?"
It would bring the tanking classes closer to par by not building encounters that require multiple survival cooldowns that only one tanking class can bring to bear. DK's were built specifically to survive magic damage. What is the primary damage source showing up in end game content? Burst magic damage requiring cooldowns to mitigate. What is the primary damage source showing up on the hard modes in Ulduar? Burst magic damage requiring cooldowns to mitigate.
DK's were the worst thing to happen to tanking in WoW's history. The combination of their survivability, DPS as tank spec, and the overall buff to threat gen from 3.0 make shitty players into good tanks if they're playing a DK, and GOOD players become GODS when given all the abilities DK's have.
Michael Mar 4th 2009 9:29AM
I can't agree or disagree with this. Our main tank for raids is a Druid, used to be a DK but he was been going more dps lately. The issue imo is that Blizz over buffed dps for the hybrid classes, this resulted in a ton of druids, pally's, and warriors going to dps instead of tanking. I do have a prot pally alt and enjoyed this article, of course I do not raid with my pally, only heroics :( but really enjoy tanking.
SimpleSurvival Mar 3rd 2009 9:14PM
This was a very well written analysis... I read it all
Helios Mar 3rd 2009 9:57PM
That was, as many others said, one of the most well-written and well thought out articles on WoW Insider. even though I do not play a Druid tank, I can definitely see where the need to increase the effectiveness of the Druid tanks comes from. You guys do need a buff in order to stay competitive with the other tanking classes, and I feel that your solution would provide the bear tanks with a decent way to mitigate the incoming spell damage inherent in many of the WotLK boss encounters thus far. Thanks again for the good read and I hope that Blizzard hears the plight of the Druid tanks out there who need to be heard.
shinken Mar 3rd 2009 11:12PM
I have to chime in on the quality of this article. Lately I have been disappointed in the articles. Usually I'm just a angry person but you made my day Ally.
Sentient Mar 4th 2009 12:11AM
I also have to say that this is one of the best written articles I've read in a long time. I don't even have a druid or a tank of any variety and yet I could not stop reading. Bravo.
Emma Mar 4th 2009 12:50AM
Jumping on the bandwagon but by no means forced to. An excellent article which escaped being another 'poor druids / warriors / paladins' cry and instead got right to the heart of tanking mechanics and the future, in an unbiased way.
This should be linked in the WoW tank forums, although I'm sure many Blizzard employees do read this site.
Neyssa Mar 4th 2009 4:41AM
Could you please reroll to a warlock and write articles for us? Pretty Please? :)
Eisengel Mar 4th 2009 6:40AM
If I was guaranteed that at least one article, every two to three days, on wowinsider would be this informed, well thought-out and full of careful analysis as well as so absent of gross mistakes in mechanics, skill function, grammar and spelling as this one was, I would have no problem actually paying for a subscription.
Beyond excellent. I was quite pleasantly surprised an article of this quality actually appeared on wowinsider. I guess in a quantum universe, all things are possible given enough time...
Jon Do Mar 4th 2009 11:17AM
Well done.
And ironically appropriate that this appeared at the same time as a "bring the player not the class" discussion on another thread.
Jesse Mar 4th 2009 7:48PM
this is one of the best articles I've read on the site. Additionally, it's one of the best arguments I've heard for why encounters shouldn't be made with specific tanks in mind...
replacing the "warrior is always the best tank" mindset of vanilla with "DK is always the best tank" is not exactly a positive change.
Adding a magic mitigation mechanic to existing tank stats is the most elegant solution, in my opinion.
Bringing all tanks relative EH in line only solves the issue if the total damage mitigation, not just physical, is similar accross all tanks. Otherwise, you're just nerfing druids (already basically relegated to being second best tanks on 2 encounters, and worst (relative) for everything else.)
Boomsplat Mar 4th 2009 11:51AM
I know this is redundant, but very good article. I read here daily, but I've never been inspired to reply before.
A+, two thumbs up, 10/10.
mord Mar 4th 2009 12:08PM
ditto, read it all
Author really identified the problems facing each tank. I had always thought raid content was most fun when Blizz forced you to take a variety of classes/specs to handle the encounters. (mage tank in gronn's lair, spell reflect deaden, etc.)
Since blizz is dedicated to the BTPNTC principle, it makes sense to balance the tanks. Druid bears need a talent that buffs healing received, similar to the one for hunter/hunter pets. For example, +1% healing per every party/raid member (9% - 24% for raids). That way healers don't go oom keeping a druid up, scales with raid size, and 4% extra in arenas will not be OP. A warrior's spell reflect should mitigate 30% of spell damage if the incoming spell is not "reflectable". Paladins? -well I've never tanked as one so I don't know what abilities they have, but give 'em a spell-resist CD.
Kal Mar 3rd 2009 9:16PM
Really well done, Allison.
I would just like to add that druids being able to soak this giant burst damage is done primarily through a degenerate set of gear and not with using the best in slot or balanced gear. This is somewhat of the problem; that druids can use basically any gear and have no serious consequences due to how many of their innate tanking abilities (uncrittability, dodge, threat) are baked in via talents.
But yeah, it all comes back to crushing blows.
Robert M Mar 4th 2009 11:53AM
All I can say is WOW! Amazing post Allison.
I do agree with you Kal about the lack of true bear gear. Yesterday when I asked about itemizing your druid on the que, I was berated for bringing up that much of the high stamina items in the neck, finger, and trinket slots had "wasted" itemization on defense.
If Blizzard intends to waste itemization here, then Druids should be compensated. Back before Wrath, and I think this still exists, defense among all the good things it did, also reduced your chance to crit. (http://www.wowwiki.com/Defense) Think about that with the new Savage Defense. If you put on any high stamina tanking piece with defense, a druid is reducing it's chance to get a "block."
It seems like Blizzard is missing the mark with bears here. The easy answer would be for them to disregard stamina as high priority for leather pieces and insure that the bear modifier is always appropriate for the level of gear you are getting which seems somewhat like a copout since it will essentially dumb down gear choices, something Blizzard seems to want to avoid when you read GC comments like we would like for bears to look for other stats besides stamina.
As for savage defense, does it absorb magic damage? If it does, it's a hell of a lot nicer of a shield than the shield wearers shield. Granted, druids will never block as much, but when they do it will provide them with a nice way to eat magic damage. It does seem lacking in the one area that they do not have the control of activation like holy shield or shield block, though I guess barkskin could help with that mechanic some.
As far as paladins and tanks go, why not just "bake" it into an avoidance stat like they did with spell deflection in the blood tree for dks? It doesn't have to be parry, but with the high cost of parry ratings to actual parry already, it seems like a good choice.
I know one of the complaints of the squishies will be that they have generally had higher magic resists to compensate for their lack of phisical mitigation, and that it will cause some nasty OP in PVP. Of course, I have no response for that because I have yet to understand why Blizzard doesn't see this as an issue for DK's already.
As far as druids front loading threat, I really wish they would make some attempt to help them out here. From my healing experience, great druids have no issues, pulling and/or positioning but, good ones seems to get screwed over in the pull with all the AoE that goes on right now. I have seen druids pull with hurricane and starfire. Why not give them some feral ability that does that? Something like thunderous roar. The druid roars calling on the power of nature to a lightning bolt down on the target and to additional targets. Alot like avengers shield? Maybe, but a thunderous roar coupled with a feral charge will buy the druid the time he needs to get into position with a 360 degree threat AoE like TClap, Consecrate, or D&D.
I am particularly sickened by the fact that all hunter tenacity pets (and yes that includes their trained bears) will have thunderstomp available to them. So again, worgs in the Fjord can deflect (but druids can't) and hunter can train their bears to thunderstomp (but druids can't). Am I the only one missing this logic here?
Anyway, again, ZOMFG amazing post, keep this kind of quality coming!
Allison Robert Mar 4th 2009 1:12PM
Yeah, I probably should have mentioned that the "Sarth-tank" set Druids use should, under ideal circumstances, bear little to no resemblance to the set you actually use for tanking just about everything else. Tanks who sacrifice everything at the altar of stamina are usually hell to keep healed.
If we do see more encounters along those lines, I'd like to see more done to enable Warriors and Paladins to tank them with fewer headaches -- and less damage taken by bears would be most welcome too. The only real advantage we presently bring to Sarth 3D is the ability not to be one-shot. Doesn't engender much confidence, eh?
Corth Mar 3rd 2009 9:18PM
Very good read, as a guild that is small and only has a warrior/pally tank set thought would help us alot in finnally downing sarth3d and Mally alot easier
Cyanea Mar 3rd 2009 9:23PM
I don't even tank, and I read it all.
Very good article.