Wintergrasp retuning incoming
Back before Wintergrasp was first introduced, Blizzard told us that they'd finally figured out world PvP. They said to us that they'd figured out how to have hundreds of players fighting in an open zone at a time, without any major slowdown or lag issues. At the time, we were skeptical (and this was even before the instance lag after the WotLK release), and we continue to be: anyone who ducks inside Wintergrasp while things are nuts can tell you that they're far from perfect.But maybe not for the reason you think. Beatus on Kul Tiras posted a pretty well-written complaint about the layout of Wintergrasp on the EU forums, and new blue poster Ancilorn speaks up with a little insight into just how Blizzard was planning to keep down the lag in WG. They were planning to spread players around to the towers in the southern side of the zone, thus allowing hundreds of players to play, but in a few separate groups conquering different objectives.
The only problem, says Ancilorn, is that there's not enough incentive to split players up -- people who go south miss out on honor and daily quests, and there's not enough reward to make them go that far. He says a retuning of the map will eventually be done to try and spread out the battle a little more.
Which still may not work -- the thing about Wintergrasp is that, since it is uninstanced and generally unorganized, players tend to run for the biggest battles. So even if you do have nine objectives around the map, you'll still have the challenge of spreading them around (maybe have the towers go down faster if you're attacking more than one at a time, or a balance set up like that).
Blizzard definitely tried tackling a tough problem in setting up Wintergrasp, and it doesn't look like they've got it quite right just yet.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Virtual selves, Blizzard, PvP, Wrath of the Lich King






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
RogueJedi86 Mar 3rd 2009 8:15PM
We already have those in dailies. Blizz never said using our own flyers I think. But they did promise Dance Studios in the first LK trailer, and here we are 6 months after launch, and still nothing, maybe we'll get it in 3.2, another 6 months down the road.
Odok Mar 3rd 2009 8:17PM
Wow, are you kidding me? Splitting the battle down south is the major reason why Wintergrasp is so massively broken right now. The underpopulated side doesn't have the numbers to form little groups like this.
SIGH.
Verit Mar 3rd 2009 8:29PM
Actually its a much deeper problem - Blizzard needs to improve I/O performance on their servers.
The speed at which the servers are collecting data from clients, processing and distributing that data is way to slow currently if all the wg players are on the same grid (say like outside the orb).
Firestride Mar 3rd 2009 8:22PM
I'm pretty much ok with the current state on our server, where offense ranks up for no reason very quickly, and steamrolls to victory. I'm on the vastly unpopulated side, and yet we haven't had any trouble winning on offense since I started hitting Lieutenant before I reached the first wall. Sure, defense is 100% failure, but you accrue decent honor while you put up a noble effort.
I would rather look at defense as a futile, but fun and rewarding, battle and know that I'm going to own Wintergrasp roughly half the time than struggle against superior numbers time and time again.
sean Mar 3rd 2009 8:35PM
Here's a though.
BRING BACK AIR PLANES LIEK YOUR PROMISED!
Make them only buildable in the southern part of the map and you're golden.
Tarin Mar 17th 2009 4:31AM
That's a very good idea. Which would also make the defenders want to go south to destroy the Bomber's Airstrip.
Sean Mar 3rd 2009 8:37PM
I hope Blizzard takes this opportunity to re-think Tenacity. In my experience, there is no amount of Tenacity that can overcome one side being outnumbered 4 or 5 to 1 (as seems to be common on my server).
My proposal for keeping things balanced? Make each factions max population = Opposite Faction +10.
So if Horde has 30 players, Alliance can have 40 players Max.
That way it will be a somewhat fair fight.
Tumleren Mar 3rd 2009 8:47PM
Well..
How?
It's not instanced, so it's not like you can just stop people from going there
Jamesisgreat Mar 3rd 2009 8:49PM
What about instead of tenacity (which I hate as I never have it!), the side with the least players spawns npcs (real lvl 80 hit you hard ones, not like the guards which die in 2 hits) to fight on their side. Would be more fun than trying to kill someone with 10 stacks of tenacity.... though maybe not for them I guess.
mk Mar 3rd 2009 8:50PM
i agree. on our server horde can be in a full raid + half another raid (a normal wg turnout) and we will have tenacity x5 at least and x12 at the most. let's just say we hardly ever win and it's rarely fun. we never have enough people to defend towers or to attack towers. it basically sucks. tenacity is totally underpowered as it is. i've played loads of wg's and almost have enough marks for the mammoth and according to my achievements, i've won a total of 6 wg's. it's pathetic.
Jaxson Mar 3rd 2009 9:08PM
To RogueJedi86:
I agree with the point you're trying to make, however:
6 Months after launch? What timezone do you live in? By my calendar, we're currently about 3.5-ish months after launch. And no, a beta test does not count as a launch.
RogueJedi86 Mar 3rd 2009 9:19PM
Minor exagerration, but post-launch is still post-launch. By the time 3.1.0 hits live, it probably will be 6 months. Dance Studios were in the LK Launch Trailer, not a "1 year after LK comes out" trailer.
Jaxson Mar 3rd 2009 9:44PM
I agree with you completely, and I know I'm a casual player, but for a second there I was thinking "did it really take me 6 months to hit 80 on my main?"
Look on the bright side: At least they're finally giving us stackable clams. As long as you take the time the time to stack them manually, that is...
Drocket Mar 3rd 2009 9:25PM
On my server, Horde (which I play) is outnumbered by Alliance about 3-1. On Wrath's release, Wintergrasp was roughly balanced with Tenacity. The Alliance had a SLIGHT advantage, in that they occasionally managed to win a defense, which the Horde pretty much never did, but overall, both sides managed to control WG more-or-less evenly.
Once they added the southern towers, though, forget it - its all but a given that Horde loses. The Alliance is able to put up a good defense of the keep while also putting out a team to nuke the towers. The Horde has the choice of trying to defend the towers (losing because there's not enough people on offense) or they can stay on the attack and lose because with the towers down, its easy for the Alliance to run out the clock.
WG is rather thoroughly broken right now for unbalanced realms.
jaenicoll Mar 3rd 2009 10:43PM
Agreed.
Although Tenacity was a nice attempt at trying to overcome realm inbalance it doesn't help with 2 major problems:
Having high health is irrelevant if you can be stunned, feared etc. I don't think tenacity scaling affects the duration of stuns, fears, snares etc on a diminishing returns formula but if it does then then it sure needs to be boosted. Health advantage is worthless if it can't be used.
Tenacity doesn't reduce the disadvanatge of missing man power. Put simply, too few players and an effective spread of offense (towers) and defense tactics can't be implemented.
Hopefully Blizzard will continue to tweak Tenacity buff because at the moment it and lag are letting down an otherwise awesome experience.
Jae
Sierro Mar 4th 2009 6:11AM
This is the case on EU-Eonar. Horde usually has tenacity 7 or 8, but occasionally much higher. It's near impossible for us to win in these cases because alliance have 2 full raids going, and the towers drop before any horde can get there. There's just not enough time left for us to win.
Before the change, WG used to change hands frequently. Alliance would easily win on offense, and horde would just about manage it in time on offense.
Now horde can only win if we happen to be fighting at a time when alliance can't be bothered.
physis Mar 3rd 2009 10:37PM
Wrath was released halfway through November, right? So that's three and a half months - rather than six. They've been busy too (so you can't call them lazy). With all the adjusting, breaking, and fixing they're doing be glad they make videos games and not space shuttles, or we'd have stellar debris all over the place.
Still... I would like to see some new dance moves. The Human dance is a bit funky now with the whole shoulder popping thing.
DrunkenPandaren Mar 3rd 2009 10:45PM
Don't worry, it took EvE a while before they upgraded their servers to handle a huge amount of people in one zone. lol Jita.
MisterMoose Mar 3rd 2009 11:21PM
So they thought if people committed the tactically insane notion of spreading out very thinly things would be ok?
Wow. Good luck getting that to work.
Thander Mar 4th 2009 2:04AM
It's always fun in the inner courtyard when everyone has 5 second lags.