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All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsRetribution DPS too low
by Zach Yonzon 
Mar 4th 2009 at 1:00PM
Ghostcrawler had one line to say about a flood of complaints from Retribution Paladins who are feeling the pinch of a restrictive tree, effectively ending the argument: Blizzard feels that Retribution DPS, particularly in PvE, is lower than how they would want it in 3.1. This comes in light of the changes in the upcoming patch, which on the surface seems like a good thing because of the slimming down of the tree and freeing up talent points.What many players should understand is that unlike pure DPS trees or even other hybrids, Paladins simply don't have any room to be flexible. Retribution Paladins can pick up every damage-boosting talent already with points to spare, and there's just a DPS ceiling that simply can't be broken through. Whether Ghostcrawler's statement indicates that they'll be reversing the 3.1 nerf to Fanaticism and Righteous Vengeance remains to be seen.
The nerf to Fanaticism is very clearly aimed at PvP burst, but has deep implications to overall DPS considering that Judgement crits also proc Righteous Vengeance. Both changes result in massive performance dip in PvE. The continued nerfs to Retribution -- even in PvP -- no longer make any sense. A healer completely negates a Retadin, and with the upcoming nerf to Improved Hammer of Justice, this weakness will become even more glaring in PvP. The only consolation now is that Ghostcrawler and his team are aware of the problem. Whether that means anything will be done about it, of course, is anyone's guess.
Filed under: Paladin, Analysis / Opinion, Blizzard, Forums
Reader Comments (Page 4 of 7)
Zor Mar 4th 2009 2:18PM
off topic - if a class thats been broken for so long, and there are so many damn Ret opidins.....does this imply the world is off?
simple logic ma man......nothing goes from shit to gold overnight
its still broke, in the opposite way
Deadly. Off. Topic. Mar 4th 2009 2:39PM
Kinda funny that you claim they're now broken the other way when it's been already said they're NOT doing enough damage in PVE.
Especially in raids where good played paladins still get passed by other dps class because of the constant nerfs that get plied to them because of PVP complaints.
Kendras Mar 4th 2009 2:05PM
Just been reading through a few pages of comments and the actual article, I'm not sure when paladin dps was to low since WotLK, I've usually topped the damage charts on my paladin over everyone, usually 5-6% ahead of damage/dps in heroics. Likewise with many other rets I've grouped and raided with.
Even though I'm probably swapping to holy come 3.1 to help the guild out, ret'll be my dual-specc, just hoping it doesn't get nerfed into the ground and continues going 5 feet under.
turkeyspit Mar 4th 2009 2:46PM
A Ret friend of mine went into the PTR.
On Patchwerk Live = 5200 DPS
On PTR = 4200 DPS
Now figure that against Patch, his Exorcism crits 100% of the time, and he gets the extra damage vs. Undead.
Now imagine what his DPS will be in Ulduar against Giantkin and Mechanicals?
Considering that Ret Paladins are burning up the 7-8th place on DPS charts in good games NOW, against Undead, do you really think a drop of over 1k DPS (still against Undead) is justified?
Devant Mar 4th 2009 5:19PM
It took me almost 3 months before I reached pre-3.0 patch dps levels again as a warlock so bugger off. I lost almost 2k dps overnight with that patch.
ezmode Mar 4th 2009 2:11PM
Even crappy noob ret pallys get raid slots nowadays. The good ones can still do decent dps for a HYBRID that can choose to spec into tanking or healing. They can even bring utility to a raid. They definitely are NOT the least played class right now. And they dont seem to have that much of a problem compared to other classes with pvp even after the nerfs? What the hell is the problem with them?
Eternauta Mar 4th 2009 2:27PM
IMO, the only problem with ret pallies is that they are BORING as hell.
Spam CS, DS, wait.. JoW, rinse and repeat
3.1 will hopefully add a new spell to thier dps rotation (that fortunately is not an instant melee attack): Exorcism.
However, ret pallies currently don't require any skill to be played effectively, that's why they are so boring (at least in PvE).
turkeyspit Mar 4th 2009 2:43PM
If Ret Paladins are so 'easy' and take no 'skill' to play, how come it's easy to spot a BAD Ret Paladin a mile away?
Ret Paladins aren't complicated, but they aren't easy to play, simply because to be competitive in DPS, they have to go the extra mile each and every time.
The only people who think Ret Paladins are easy and take no skill to play either never played a Ret in endgame content, or if they do, think doing 4100 DPS on H Patchwerk is some kind of an achievement.
PopeJamal Mar 4th 2009 5:26PM
There's always been a joke in my guild about having more than one pally in a 5-man group being a tough/impossible run.
Between the old wonky seal-judgement-seal-jugement mechanic and the (historically) low DPS, Pallys haven't always been able to carry their own weight DPS wise.
The "problem" is that we don't want to go back to that. Shaman and Druids are able to pump out "competitive" DPS, so Pallys should be able to as well.
Tristan Mar 4th 2009 2:16PM
They were obviously playing holy paladins pre 3.0.
I refuse to believe that Ret dps is too low compared to what it was when 70 was the cap. You had to have crazy gear to even reach to 5 in dps in a raid.
Zor Mar 4th 2009 2:20PM
thanks for your honesty
Zor Mar 4th 2009 2:23PM
to Kendras, and exmode
Demi Mar 4th 2009 2:23PM
Ret Paladins are OP. Their DPS should of never matched that of a PURE DPS CLASS. Anyone who cries about that should /deleteaccount and go play LOTRO or go dabble in a PS3 another loser of this generation.
Zor Mar 4th 2009 2:42PM
bingo, we have a winner
turkeyspit Mar 4th 2009 2:39PM
Anybody who is constantly being OutDPS'd by a Ret Paladin fails at WoW.
Ret Paladins aren't OP
Ret Paladins aren't topping DPS charts
Ret Paladins aren't 2 shotting people in PvP
oh wait..sorry, let me rephrase this
Ret Paladins aren't OP from a GOOD players perspective
Ret Paladins aren't topping DPS charts against GOOD players
Ret Paladins aren't 2 shotting people in PvP against GOOD players.
So, if you think Rets are OP, and they constantly beat you on the damage charts and in PvP, then you sir/madam/child are simply B A D.
And hasn't Blizzard catered to BAD players enough this expansion?
Really, you shouldn't need to worry about anything come 3.1
BAD Players won't get past 1500 Arena Ratings now that everyone has resilience
BAD Players won't get past the first few bosses in Ulduar
So really, BAD players, stop coming to sites like this and the official forums. You're pretty much done with the game come 3.1 (unless you get better I suppose), and anything you have to same is really...just BAD.
M-dawg Mar 4th 2009 2:30PM
Hopefully 3.1 will rid the world of Dks as well.....
Deadly. Off. Topic. Mar 4th 2009 2:35PM
Well, Blizzard f***ed around with this class because of PVP complainers (You might know them as people who couldn’t be bothered to learn to play their own classes). What should anyone have expected? You mess up the class because of PVP and PVE always feels it.
I think that since DPS is the common shared skill with any class you play, everyone deserves to be able to DPS.
Tanking and Healing specializations come in afterwards where players decide to be support instead of taking the “omg, I was top dps” on the charts position. Nice to see people trying to slam paladins into healing roles only... maybe we should do the same with warriors, they shouldn’t be able to dps either, make them flat out tanks or shammies shouldn’t be allowed to dps, they should be full resto for healing. *Shakes her head*
M-dawg Mar 4th 2009 2:39PM
I do not think the above comment was stating that classes that have talent trees with both DPS, Healing, or Tanks should not be able to have DPS at all. The idea is that people that roll classes based off DPS should always have top DPS in a raid, instance, PVE or whatever. It is what their class was built upon and to say that a Ret Paladin should have DPS or a Shaman or whatever that is equal to a PURE DPS CLASS is just ignorant and selfish. Those classes get the best of many worlds let the DPS class have theirs.
/deathtoret
turkeyspit Mar 4th 2009 2:51PM
It's funny, because in GOOD guilds, with GOOD players, the top Damage Dealers are
Surv Hunters
Aff Warlocks
Mages (FFB and Arcane seem about equal, depending on fight)
Rogues got the shaft big time, but hopefully Blizz will figure it out come 3.1
So, whenever you see someone complaining that Hybrids are constantly out DPS'ing them, you can easily determine that:
a) they are bad at WoW
b) their Guild DPS are bad at WoW
The only exception here are DK DPS...but then does anyone with a brain think DK's aren't OP up the Yin Yang?
Yoratowel Mar 4th 2009 2:46PM
For some reason im not worried at all. We had way to many excess points before 3.1 that were just used as a dump without anything else to increase dps ; then they free up more? It would seem like there preparing to add in talents or move around a bunch of stuff in the ret tree.
All I can do is wait and see now. Good news is I geared up my holy set then with all the inc nerfs switched to holy and realized I love healing. Probably will stay holy for progression as its also easier to find groups when I just want to run something quick.