[1.Local]: Pondering the evolution of mechanics and classes
by Lisa Poisso 
Mar 7th 2009 at 6:00PM
Reader comments – ahh, yes, the juicy goodness following a meaty post. [1.Local] ducks past the swinging doors to see what readers have been chatting about in the back room over the past week.
See you next week right here in WoW Insider's [1.Local] chat channel!
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Tanks, Wrath and crushing blows MMORPGs aren't the new kids on the block anymore-and neither are their players. Readers gathered in a number of posts this week to toy with the topic of WoW's continuing evolution as a game. This philosophical bent was sparked an insightful analysis from Allison Robert on the state of end-game tanking. Readers are gobbling up the fresh perspectives. Ghostcrawler clattered in from the surf to dub Allison's post "a pretty good article." Here on WI, Blizzard forum regular Karilyn added, "Karilyn approves the message in this post. I personally vote for either buffing DK physical mitigation and nerfing their magical mitigation though, as opposed to your suggestion. It personally seems easier to rebalance 1 tank to be in line with the other 3, as opposed to trying to bring 3 tanks to be in like with Death Knights." Plenty more comments where these came from. Be sure to read the full analysis and let us know where you think tanking should be heading. |
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Hearthstones down to 30-minute cooldown Is gameplay becoming too streamlined? Does the recent downpour of convenience-oriented tweaks bring a breath of fresh air to stale, unnecessary game mechanics, or does it simply dumb the game down to snoozeworthy levels? Do changes like shortening hearthstone cooldowns to 30 minutes show that Blizzard is now prone to caving to QQs and customer rants? Plastic Rat: "The complaints are more due to the fact that Blizzard caved to a bunch of enraged QQers on the forums. A 30-minute reduction on hearthstone cooldown is not going to have that big an effect on the game. Getting into the habit of listening every time the kiddies throw a tempter tantrum is very bad. "Additionally, a lot of the changes are making the game 'less' like an MMO. Think about it ... How much of the game is actually completely necessary to gameplay? How about flight paths? You've seen it once, you've seen it a million times. Why have to sit through that rollercoaster every time you want to go somewhere? Why not just make it so you can click and teleport to any FP on the map? "Note: If this is seeming like a great idea to you, you're missing the point... bigtime." Jason: "As far as I'm concerned, they should just make the game more streamlined. Just bring up a list of instances/raids/BGs, form a group with any player from any server, and go play. All the traveling is meant to keep you playing longer and paying more, of course." Plastic Rat: "Then it really wouldn't be an MMORPG, which it appears is exactly what most of the players want anyway." Too simple now-or too much of a pain in the Pygmy Pants? What do you think? |
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The success of bring the player, not the class We've talked at length about how Bring the Player, Not the Class is affecting raiding guilds. But what about the growing number of players who play through endgame content in PUGs? "... I have found 25-man content to be much, much more forgiving of group makeup than 10-man," notes srhall. "It seems interesting to me that the designers would have group composition in mind especially for heroic content. When you've only got 10 slots, it seems choosing those players to be all the more crucial. "Personal experience with bring-the-player-not-the-class? I think it's obvious that it's working within the confines of guild runs, but PUGs will (necessarily?) often rely on the dreaded equipment checks. My newly-80 healadin healed one of our guild tanks through 10-man OS and the spider wing of 10-man Naxx with blues and greens ... only to get booted from heroic Vault for bad equipment. That same healer healed another guild tank with blues and only a couple of epics (and unbuffed 24K life) through heroic HoL without much trouble." Have you had an easier time getting into the raids you want on your server? |
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Time is money, friend In case you've missed Time is Money, our new weekly guide to making gold in game, don't miss the helpful hints from readers after every column. The comments are proving to be a great place to get help and share experiences. Ferarro: "Being an enchanter just from 70 - 80 will net you at least 5k gold, easy." TyKell: "I'm curious, is it better value to disenchant these rewards than to just vendor them?" Ferarro: "It's almost always better to disenchant them. Servers vary, but a single Greater Cosmic Essence goes for about 15g+ in AH." TyKell: "Thanks for the info Ferarro, I'll have to get busy leveling my enchanter then; I'm running out of room for all my greens!" Do you have any trademark strategies for offloading your daily take? |
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The state of twinking max_bmw took the time to post a fairly lengthy outline of why he doesn't think twinking deserves to be looked down upon or even called cheating. "Many, not all, but many of the complaints about twinks simply don't hold water," he noted. "Take many of the complaints about twinks and attempt to apply it to level 80 PvP, and you will see what I mean. "1. Some players (twinks) out gear other players – Unfair; or similarly, some players have obtained the best gear and enchants the Blizzard has made available to them - Exploit. Enter a lvl 80 BG in greens with no enchants and you stand a high chance of getting two shot. This is the case at any level of PvP. Everyone at level 80 is 'twinking', i.e. attempting to get the best items and enchants available. However, when this is done at level 80, it is often referred to as skill. "2. Low-level twinks have no skill. It doesn't take much skill to press a button, no matter what level your character is. What most players do not have (twink or not, level 10 or 80) is a concept of teamwork, coordination, or achieving BG objectives. One of the most effective players I have seen was a level 12 warrior in a BG who simply stayed on the enemy flag carrier and kept them hamstrung all the way across the field. "3. Twinks are just jerks who want to pwn noobs. Well, unfortunately, some are. However, these are the same people who take their level 80 to corpse camp lowbies in Darkshire and who sit in Trade acting like fools all day. This is really a people problem as opposed to a twink problem. "4. Twinks take too much gold/time to create, or you have to have high level characters help you, or new players can not create twinks. Not true. As a personal challenge, I created a lone character on a new server to see if I could make him into an effective 19 twink, and I did. I ran with at level groups for the few instance drops needed and generated all the gold needed though mining copper and selling it in the AH. It took less than a week. "5. Twinks are dumb/a waste of time. Endgame raiders and PvPers are dumb. They spent all that time getting the character to level 80. Then they do the same thing every week to get the best gear and enchants and then just replace it all a month later when the next patch comes out. Wow, see how easy that is. "WoW is a RPG. One of the core concepts of RPGs is raising one's stats to provide a relative advantage. No matter what level of play, some player/class will have some item or ability that provides them an advantage. I view this as a challenge rather than a problem. If you do view this as a problem, then perhaps a game such as Call of Duty which has no levels/gear/stats would be more to your liking or more palatable to your gaming philosophy." |
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
ZuWhowho Mar 7th 2009 6:23PM
I've started a Fad!
jim carey Mar 7th 2009 6:24PM
great article. especially liked the twinking and hearthstone ones.
kozom Mar 7th 2009 6:27PM
Hmm they used the word "first" in their post...but they DID make an opinion... they also capitalized the word "first" so... is it coincidence or jackassery?
Hmm I think it’s safe to say that they ARE indeed a Jackass, since this is really just a summary of OTHER posts from throughout the week.
Daryl Mar 7th 2009 6:49PM
I think WoW should have an inconvenience factor. That's why we have FPs and not just teleport to any place on the map. Still, it's good that these things are reviewed.
That's why we have hearthstones with a 1hr CD and that's why the AH is in IF. An AH in Dalaran means that nobody needs to go to Eastern Kingdoms or Kalimdor
There seems to be a shifting of priorities in Blizz where things are made easier to suit casual players.
In 2005 when I started playing, things were difficult unless you grouped. Elites were everywhere and gear improvements were imperceptible. Most quests needed visits to instances and experience was glacial and you would need to go to SM several times over what seemed to be several weeks (probably only days) before going over to Uldaman and getting your mount.
I'm not complaining, just noting the trends.
Daryl.
DataShade Mar 7th 2009 8:09PM
You don't need an "inconvenience factor" to have a good game. Lives don't cost quarters; bragging-rights difficulty is better achieved through, well, achievements; "immersion" is about making me want to spend my time, and not about taxing my time.
Having auction houses in only certain spots makes sense from a load-balance standpoint.
Stating that WoW, the most streamlined RPG since Progress Quest, is easier now than at launch sounds an awful lot like complaining, but I played beta and after launch, and I have to wonder if we played the same games; I got a protection warrior to level 60 in under 60 days along with levelling a bunch of alts to 30 and working a full-time job. While getting that first character the 100g he needed for a mount took me until almost level 45, I had a couple of epics and a fistful of blues without running any instance more than three times - and my current guildmate who's run Utgarde Pinnacle once per day every day for the last month without a Red Sword of Courage drop laughs at your "probably only days" parenthetical.
Daryl Mar 8th 2009 8:32AM
I never played on Beta and I read that warriors were almost invincible on Beta and nerfed successively in the final release.
Taking ages on SM is different to waiting for something to drop.
I suspect my immersion was deeper on my first character and the other characters were rushed through, so I probably don't recall the actual time spent.
I notice that there are a few game mechanics which are placed to make things more trouble. Maybe the AH at IF/SW/Darn are for load balancing (LagForge) I didn't think of that.
Example of inconvenient things are:-
The 1hr CD on HS (I know it's soon to be 30 mins)
A lot of spells require reagents/shards or other resource.
Locks could not summon from inside an instance
Distance from GY, especially in Badlands.
any others?
You can click on a battlemaster to go to a BG but I wondered if in the early days,(before my time) if you actually had to go to Refuge Pointe for AB and Ashenvale for WSG.
Before MC, there was no FP in Searing Gorge and the Key to Searing Gorge was very handy.
Anyway I'm rabbiting on.
Daryl.
RogueJedi86 Mar 7th 2009 7:08PM
I disagree with Plastic Rat on travel. If flight paths ever became instant, the world would become a lot less massive. Long travel times to faraway places helps show us that we're part of a MASSIVE multiplayer online rpg. With the hearthstone cooldown halved, the world became a lot smaller, since people won't have to take boats and flightpaths to get back to Dalaran(or wherever their hearth may be) as much. Part of the reason for those long flight times means you can walk away from the computer or make a sandwich or whatever. People need to just sit back and relax. Enjoy some real life while on those 10 minute flights. :)
Allison Mar 7th 2009 9:56PM
I'm almost positive Mr. Rat was being sarcastic about the FPs. :P
Plastic Rat Mar 8th 2009 8:32AM
Plastic Rat was indeed being sarcastic about making flight paths instant. I think you missed the point of my post, I was in fact making the exact same point you were. These changes make the world smaller, which I believe is a bad thing.
Also... any chance we could delete the gold seller/spammer above me?
RogueJedi86 Mar 8th 2009 9:36PM
I see it now Plastic Rat, my bad. It's easy to see someone being serious about it, so I didn't realize you weren't being. Sorry about that, and I do agree with you. :)
Balasan Mar 7th 2009 7:10PM
Awww, I totally was expecting the "yo dawg, I heard you liked instances so I made an instance in your instance so you can raid while you raid" thingy by Lorsty.
Definitely best comment of the week.
http://www.wowinsider.com/2009/03/02/the-queue-genn-youre-such-a-jerk/
RogueJedi86 Mar 7th 2009 9:35PM
Seconded. I expected it too. It was definitely the funniest post in the past week. Lisa should update this post and add it.
jbodar Mar 7th 2009 8:39PM
@max_bmw
jbodar Mar 7th 2009 8:48PM
Let's try that again.
@max_bmw
Comparing twinking to 80 PVP might hold some water if twinks weren't taking explicit advantage of the fact that it just isn't worth it for leveling toons to kit themselves out for PVP at say 19, whereas it IS worthwhile to do that at 80.
Allison Mar 7th 2009 9:59PM
While it may not be worth it to you, it's worth it to a lot of other people. Different people enjoy different things is all.
jbodar Mar 11th 2009 6:48PM
You miss the point. Twinks are the only ones trying to kit out toons at that bracket, so they go in it knowing that they will be at a sizable advantage to most of the BG populace. That's why you can't compare twinking to 80 PVP. At 80, EVERYONE is looking to go in with the best they get at the time, so the playing field is a bit more level.
ita a game Mar 7th 2009 10:44PM
2shey Allison,well put. Whats the big deal about twinks anyway, it takes a day or 3 build and Anybody can make 1. To me its a waste of time but to others its not, and its their time to waste. If your worried a bunch of 19s are going to run rampent throu the streets then just keep your 80 out of the local bg and youll be fine. Also its cheaper to make a twink than it is to buy oh I dont know say a 18000g furry elephant. Well thats my 2 copper : )
Midorie Mar 8th 2009 3:14AM
"There seems to be a shifting of priorities in Blizz where things are made easier to suit casual players."
Here it is again, moronic use of "casual". "Casual" does not mean a lazy player. "Lazy player" means "lazy player". I'm a casual who gets on to raid and quest or level alts and I by no means want them to drop flight paths or lower the cooldown on the hearthstone.
I don't think they should make instances (or BG's) instant access from anywhere in the world. I don't think any of this dumbing the game down crap should be happening at all. What these people want is Guildwars, and that's exactly what they should be playing.
Casual players (like myself) want a challange, we want to be able to get loot, but we don't want it handed to us. We want to play and enjoy the game just like anyone else, and most of us (and by us, I mean the majority player base) recognize the fact that there should be harder content and better rewards for people willing to put in the effort to get it (hardcores).
The problem is that the lazy players are the vocal majority of the forums, so you idiots (you hardcore elitists who think that if we aren't on 5 nights a week for 6 hours a night, and I'm not exxagerating, that used to be my play schedule pre-bc) just assume that lazy player = casual.
I'm sorry, but being limited to one, two ,or three nights a week and still being able to raid 10/25 man content, do professions, level alts, etc, etc is casual.
I'm sick of being told that because I only play a couple of nights a week that I want everything handed to me.
/rant off
Darktotem Mar 8th 2009 8:41PM
Everyone should have 1 hour hearthstones. That makes one of the most compelling arguments for casual players rolling a shammy there is (15 minute cooldown on Astral Recall not shared with hearth). If Heathstone CD is getting buffed, replace my sentry totem with an astral anchor totem I can jump back to at will as long as I use it within 5 minutes without dropping another totem of the same element and stay within the same zone/bg/instance (dropping flags obviously).
jbodar Mar 11th 2009 6:55PM
Do people really roll shaman based on an extra hearth? Seriously? Who has to hearth that much that it's a class-making ability?
Also, you ignore the fact that shamans still have an extra hearth CD in Astral Recall, and you propose to supplement it with Demonic Circle on Steroids? You're too funny.