Insider Trader: Who keeps the shards?
Insider Trader is your inside line on making, selling, buying and using player-made products.In the Burning Crusade, an Enchanter's job in a raid or dungeon was to disenchant the boss drops that no one wanted into Large Prismatic Shards, and the entire group would roll for them.
This was considered the standard, and was the fairest way to divide up the loot. Instead of rolling on the bind on pick-up items that were not wanted, in order to sell them to a vendor for profit or to help pay for the repair bill, they were turned into something more useful. Prismatics sold for more at auction than a vendor would pay, and the shards could be saved for when the characters needed something enchanted.
All of this changed in Wrath of the Lich King. Suddenly, many Enchanters were acting like anyone who expected to roll for shards were selfish and clueless, and it has since become the norm for the Enchanter to keep all of the shards.
This week, I'll be discussing the reasons behind the change, and reassessing just how fair the change really is.
Dream Shards vs. Prismatic Shards
The primary reason for the shift lies in the differences between the two types of shards, Dream and Prismatic. Prismatic Shards are merely an Enchanting reagent, while Dream Shards are also used as currency by Enchanters in order to learn new enchants.
The boss drops in Outland then clearly belong to everyone. When there is no Enchanter present, people roll for the unwanted item and vendor it. An Enchanter's contribution is merely to make the item more enticing.
In Northrend, the Enchanter has the opportunity to turn the drops into something that could further their career, and this produces the gray area.
Arguments for and against disenchanting for keeps
1. I paid to level this profession, and so I should get to keep the rewards.
R. This argument doesn't hold much water with me. After all, this wasn't true prior to Northrend dungeoning.
2. Disenchanting the drops is the same as herbing, mining or skinning in a dungeon. You don't ask those gatherers to share what they pick up, or worse yet, force them to put their goods up for a roll.
R. I don't personally agree with this argument either. After all, the contents of a mining node, an herb, or the skin from a mob, are not accessible to anyone else. If you run a dungeon without a gatherer, there is nothing that the other players get to keep because of your absence.
All of the players participate in downing a boss, and the loot is there as a reward for the group, whether it is in the form of an upgrade, a shard, or an item to be sold for profit. If a disenchanter is not present, other group members get some money.
Having a disenchanter claim all boss drops that won't be equipped actually takes something from the other players.
3. I need the shard to learn new recipes.
R. Do you really? How do we know that you're going to use it to purchase a recipe, and not just sell it on the Auction House for a large profit?
I don't mind passing a shard to an Enchanter that I know is still leveling, and still purchasing new recipes, but giving up a chance at an item that would be useful to, or lucrative for, me indefinitely doesn't seem fair.
4. I use them to level my craft.
R. An Enchanter that is still leveling probably does have the best claim to the shard. In a PuG setting, should we have to look you up on the armory? If no one knows you at all, would it be more fair to simply roll, because we don't know you? Should we roll if people have objections?
5. I can really only effectively farm the shards in dungeons, and if I had to roll on them each time, I'd never progress. There is no solid, self-sufficient way to get Dream Shards.
R. That is true, but shouldn't you be getting them from your guild? Why should strangers be passing things to you when you have friends and guild members who would (should) be happy to level you up?
6. You don't need Dream Shards for as many enchants as you needed Large Prismatics for in BC. Most likely, you'll sell it, and I'll have to buy it just to level.
R. This is probably the best argument in my book, when taken into context. It is true that the most popular weapon and raiding enchants don't use the Dream Shards. In fact, most of the ones that do are the super expensive enchants that only serious progression guilds will require, and in that case, most players can get those enchants within those guilds.
For example, the average player would probably choose to spend (10) Infinite Dust and (2) Greater Cosmic Essences for +50 spellpower to a weapon, rather than a whopping (30) Infinite Dust, (6) Dream Shards) and (6) Abyss Crystals for a mere +13 extra spellpower, totalling 63.
On the other hand, many enchants do require one or two, and they do sell on the Auction House for a fair amount, which leads back to the fairness of taking profit from someone else when they don't even know you.
Arguments for a different system
Given the above arguments, and the fact that many players are either fairly generous and easy going, or simply don't care to deal with auctioning the shards, it would seem that a quick discussion on how the shards are going to be handled at the beginning of a PuG would be the best way to handle it.
If people are not happy to let you take the shards for your own use, then it is probably not worth the effort or argument. Run the PuG, roll like everyone else, and don't group with them again.
In a guild setting, all shards should belong to the guild, who can pass them out to the Enchanters that really need them, as well as ensure that people who need enchants, and are giving business to Enchanters within the guild, get them.
Personally, I think that there should be an etiquette to the matter, and not simply a hard and fast rule that the shards belong to the Enchanter, whether you know him/her or not, and whether they intend to sell them or use them.
How do you handle the distribution of Dream Shards in PuGs and within your guild? How do you think they should be handled?
Filed under: Items, Insider Trader (Professions), Enchants, Making money, Leveling, The Burning Crusade, Raiding, Features, Expansions, Instances, Analysis / Opinion, Wrath of the Lich King






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 9)
Karilyn Mar 7th 2009 11:06AM
The vast majority of time, everyone just passes on shards anyway because they are so worthless. So it doesn't really bother me.
Nobody wants to roll for anything except Abyss crystals.
Aykwa Mar 7th 2009 11:50AM
This has never been a problem. I've never had an enchanter do anything but roll with everyone else for shards. As for the whole "it is a benefit to my profession argument," you have a lot of other benefits from your professions that others don't have normally. Like being able to DE those useless quest rewards and use them as mats for your profession or to sell since a green that will vendor for 3 or 4 gold will easily DE into 3 or 4 dust worth maybe 15 gold or so. You get to use the dust or sell the dust for 3 or 4 times what everyone else gets to vendor the useless item for. So I don't really have sympathy for that argument. Why should the enchanter get EXTRA benefit from sharding something that everyone else worked to get too? If everyone just needed the item someone would at least get the vendor gold for it.
Me personally, if I came into someone who wanted the shard, I'd suggest that we all roll on the shard, but that if the enchanter instead wanted to keep it without rolling they pay the vendor value of the DE item another party member, decided by rolls. That way it is as if the enchanter was not an enchanter and the rest of the group was rolling on the item to vendor it. That will typically make the group happy because they don't get hurt (compared to having no enchanter), but should also make the enchanter happy because they get a shard for (usually) much cheaper than they could buy one on the AH. Alternately, everyone can roll on the shard.
Healtuff Mar 7th 2009 12:09PM
Amanda Miller,
I really don't like your tone. It sounds like an enchanter wronged you once and now you're QQing about it.
"[...] If you run a dungeon without a gatherer, there is nothing that the other players get to keep because of your absence."
Wow, because we know the 4 gold you get for vendoring a Northrend blue really is a lot.
Basically I don't even know why this is an issue. I've just stopped telling people that I can DE. Second, I don't run with people who require gear from any of the dungeons. I am a holy pally, but if the gear is anything that could be used for an offset, I say "Hey, can I take that for my offset?" And nobody usually objects. Then, as soon as I'm out of group, I DE it for mats. Simple enough.
Andrew Mar 7th 2009 12:20PM
@Healtuff You're basically stealing from your group. I think you're a dick.
Arkantas Mar 9th 2009 9:39PM
I am not an enchanter- but this seems really messed up. I think that if an enchanter has to share his materials- then miners/ skinners/ herbalists should share their mats too. If the enchanter wasn't there, then the people would just get a measly 5g for the blue items and thats assuming they won the greed roll. Enchanters should make sure that its ok with their groups before the pug, and if it isnt, then they should drop the group. If people expect to get the shards, then they should take the time to level up enchanting for themselves instead of expecting other people to give them mats.
Veliaf Mar 7th 2009 2:00PM
@Andrew:
No he's not. If everyone in the group rolls on an item fairly, what the winning player does with the item is up to them. He DEs his items, other players vendor them.
Veliaf Mar 7th 2009 2:06PM
@Andrew:
Never mind, I re-read his post and yes, if he's lying to the group about needing the item for an off-spec then he's stealing it.
gimickell Mar 7th 2009 6:27PM
i dont get why enchanters cry about this issue. its just like rolling on the item only the enchanter gets to make it more valuable if no one needs the item. instead of crying why not just roll on the shard as well? stop whining!
Izzy Mar 8th 2009 3:06PM
I have always just rolled on it. 2-3 of the group have usually hearthed and left the group before I can even finish the DE's. With two left, I just give the other guy one, or if I need it, I'll ask him if I can buy it.
It was a group effort to get the item, it should be rolled on IMHO.
And while I'm a 450 Enchanter, I still have over a dozen recipes to by from that tramp Vanessa
drew.hardwick Mar 7th 2009 11:13AM
I always felt this way. All people participated in downing the boss and therefore get an equal right to the item. Not everyone gets an equal chance at the shard. In all groups that I've ever been in I've preferred for people to all roll greed on blues (enchanter or not).
Dragoth Mar 7th 2009 11:13AM
My personal opinion...Set it straight right from the get go.
First: Find out if you have an enchanter in the group.
Second: Find out if that enchanter would mind dis-enchanting the loot no one would use and then allowing everyone to roll for the shards after the run.
Third: If the enchanter (and everyone else) agrees to this method, you go throughout the dungeon, pass on things you don't need and then let the enchanter dis-enchant, everyone rolls at the end for the shards.
If the enchanter doesn't want to be bothered or feels this is unfair, simply roll Need on loot that is going to be equipped and used by you, and roll Greed on loot that is not. If the enchanter happens to win it, he can make a shard out of it. Everyone else can vendor it and keep the gold.
The one thing you have to look out for is the enchanter rolling need on things just so he can dis-enchant it later...but it would take a real jerk to do this imo.
Shionia Mar 7th 2009 12:46PM
I enchant (currently sitting at 445). I have always enchanted "free with mats."
It will take me 72 more Dream Shards to pick up all the Northrend recipes, and yet I have NEVER entertained the idea that the shards are 'mine to keep'.
Bob Dewane Mar 8th 2009 9:00PM
Dragoth meet Healtuff. He is the real jerk you made reference to.
Velline Mar 7th 2009 11:14AM
Most of the time when in groups everyone rolls greed on it if they don't need it whether there is an enchanter in the group or not. If there is an enchanter and they win they can de, if the person who is not an enchanter wins they can just sell it.
AlexW573 Mar 7th 2009 11:15AM
Another thing to be considered:
Mining, Herb & Skinning each only has one use (technically Mining has two, but they're practically the same thing)
Enchanting has a huge list of things they can make (some with, some without shards), as well as harvesting mats from items.
Krianna Mar 7th 2009 6:43PM
It's a crafting profession, unlike mining or skinning.
(restating your point)
Imagine the reaction if a BS/JC tried to insist that he should get all a miner brings up, because he needs it to level his professions and there's no way for a blacksmith to farm for ore!
I do love how most of the other enchanters here are ignoring that small dream shards *do* DE from greens-- with enough frequency that my enchanter had enough to buy every dream shard enchant *and* level enchanting, at a profit, by buying materials for my LW husband to turn into greens.
Smurrf Mar 7th 2009 11:15AM
How many more times are we going to see this discussion in WI? Okay, we get it, some enchanters are being jerks. New topic now, please.
Itanius Mar 7th 2009 12:11PM
I was thinking the same thing. However, WoW Insider seems pretty adept at beating dead horses into undead horses. ;)
Red Mar 7th 2009 11:17AM
Howdy howdy,
Neat post, though I wish you had addressed a few other points.
One solution I don't see people talking about is how an enchanter can offer to pay the vendor price to group members. The enchanter receives all blues from the dungeon, but if the blue would have solve for 5 gold to a vendor, the group could /roll 100 and pay 5 gold to the winner.
Obviously, enchanters should reach this arrangement ahead of time with a group. The alternative is not to mention their disenchanting skill at all, and simply be happy with the rolls
they win.
~ ~ ~
As an enchanter on my main, I am sympathetic to an argument that wasn't explicitly addressed here. If you are trying to level the gathering professions, you simply run around with your herb or mineral tracker on, or grind skinnable foes. Tailoring has mobs you can farm for cloth, and all the other crafting professions rely largely on a specific gathering profession to obtain materials to level.
However, if I am an enchanter, what are my options to farm materials? All I can do for things like dream shards is run instances. Unlike the herbalist, I have no other viable solo option--I am completely dependent on the drops from instances.
I'm not saying that we should fully support the trend of letting the enchanter keep all shards... that's one extreme end of the spectrum. But, don't you think that forcing them to rely on a RNG to win materials is the other extreme, showing a complete lack of consideration for how difficult it is to level?
Balius Mar 7th 2009 11:32AM
You can use your free profession spot to take up tailoring, and disenchant the things you make. Leatherworkers can't farm for their own materials, skinners have to. Blacksmiths can't farm for their own metals, that takes mining.