Lichborne: Dual Wielding and Tanking on the 3.1 PTR

We had a new build hit the PTR this week, and with a week gone by, now's a good time to take a deep, focused look at the changes and see how they're shaking down. They're mostly pretty solid nerfs, and a lot of Death Knights aren't too happy about them. Still, beyond people concern about the fact that they are nerfs, the question remains: Were they merited, and where do they leave us? Let's discuss.
Tanking
To start with the tanking nerfs, all of our major talented cooldowns were increased from 1 minute to 2 minutes. To add (some say) insult to injury, we also got a few more general nerfs in the form of Blade Barrier becoming a straight damage reduction (Which is in turn a nerf to Spell Deflection and Bone Shield, which stays up longer if an attack is parried instead of removing a bone) and Frost Presence losing some base magic damage reduction. Finally, Lichborne lost its 25% miss chance
To understand why Blizzard did this, you should probably start with this PTR thread from before this round of nerfs. In this thread, various tank classes and specs went up against the test Patchwerk at the entrance to Ulduar and recorded their survival time with various healer setups. As you'll notice, Death Knights simply lasted the longest, in most cases by multiple minutes.
Now, I wouldn't say that this thread was the only factor in Death Knights getting nerfed. I have no doubt that Blizzard ran their own internal tests that came across similar findings, and while you can always say player skill or a certain talent setup or gear level plays into it, looking at the whole picture, it's difficult to deny that our cooldowns aren't amazing. I know that when I am in trouble in a 5 man, as a basic Unholy tank build, I can hit my defensive cooldowns, switch to Death Strikes for my Frost/Unholy rune attack, and live through almost anything as long as my healer is doing something other than standing around picking his nose.
The trouble with this is obvious to start, but one other thing that was happening is that with multiple amazing powerful cooldowns, Death Knights could chain cooldowns and remain relatively invincible for long stretches of time. Hit Bone Shield. Bone Shield down? Use Icebound Fortitude? Once Icebound Fortitude fades, use Lichborne. With enough avoidance, Bone Shield will be up long enough for Icebound Fortitude and Lichborne to fill the gap until it comes back again. It's a bit harder to cover the gaps left when Unbreakable Armor and Vampiric Blood are on cooldown, but you can still have at least one ability up and running most of the time.
In part, this was sort of our expected way of tanking. We'd sort of assumed our niche was avoidance and cooldown tanking. The fact that Frost Presence was actually sort of weak on its own helped this along. Blizzard has already sort of tried to nudge us to be less cooldown dependent. All three talented cooldown tanking abilities have seen nerfs before now, with a nudge to Frost Presence to compensate.
It may be that Blizzard was at one point hoping to keep us on that interesting little cooldown dependent path, but it just became obvious that Death Knights were getting a bit too powerful. In addition, it brings up the problem of what happens if you miss a single cooldown and wipe.
Overall, we probably haven't lost too much of our raw cooldown power. Some say Unbreakable Armor still needs some work, and it probably depends on how well that new mechanic actually decreases physical damage. But Bone Shield and Vampiric Blood remain basically unchanged, and we should still be able to use our cooldowns to good effect when they're actually needed. Plus, now that Lichborne is mostly a PvP talent (Especially for Undead and Human tanks), Blood and Unholy tanks can feel like they don't absolutely need to waste so many points in the Frost tree.
Hopefully, we'll see more solid tank testing numbers soon, but I doubt the sky is falling for PvE Tanks.
Dual Wielding
Good news for some Death Knights, as it looks like dual wielding may be on the path to relevance again with the denerfs of Necrosis and Blood-Caked Blade. Howling Blast got a denerf too, damage-wise, but its still at 51 talent points and on a 10 second cooldown.
The bright side on this is that it opens the door for other possible Dual Wield builds. A 51 point Unholy Build that takes advantage of a fully buffed Ghoul and a Gargoyle is a distinct possibility, and in fact seems to put out some decent DPS according to various testers.
Of course, most dual wielders are probably used to Frost, at least mechanics and rotation wise, and luckily, Frost DPS still seems viable for dual wielders. 51 frost/20 Unholy is actually very viable in preliminary DPS tests, if not slightly superior to the above Unholy build.
I'm still not completely sure if 2handers and dual wielding can be balanced on the same class, and if one or the other has to go, I'd honestly prefer it to be dual wielding. However, Blizzard may finally be on the path to keeping the two in line with each other. We'll see how things change as the PTR Progresses, but at the least, I'd expect the Necrosis and Blood Caked Blade buffs to stay. Dual Wield balance probably hinges around them.
And the Rest
Despite the cooldown removal, Ghoul Frenzy still feels like it needs some tweaking, for the same reasons I've mentioned before. That extra Unholy rune continues to sit there messing up Unholy rotations pretty hardcore. In theory, you could save it for a Death Rune, but even then, that leaves you with one spare Death Rune with no real use.
In the end, I'll sign off with my usual notes of caution. We're a new class. We'll be going through some growing pains more than any other right now for sure. 3.1 was always going to be a pretty major patch for us, at least for anyone with a bit of foresight or understanding of how MMOs work. And it is still a PTR. Things can, and will change. Again, if you're concerned about these nerfs, I'll give my usual recommendation. Find solid numbers to support yourself. Go on the test server and do some tank runs and post recount and WWS numbers. Get involved and prove your concerns, to yourself and to others. This is your chance to help shape the next stage of Death Knight evolution. Go out there and grab it.
Filed under: Patches, Analysis / Opinion, Talents, Death Knight, Wrath of the Lich King, (Death Knight) Lichborne






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Archdomo Mar 9th 2009 11:09AM
Awww, Dk are upset about the nerfs D:
Rofllol Mar 9th 2009 11:09AM
Even with these 'nerfs' Dks are still the most overpowered class in the game, right up there with paladins.
Kassu Mar 9th 2009 11:34AM
Maybe wait until the patch hits live and then open yer gob?
I've been looking at Necrosis and Blood-Caked Blade on my recount sheet (using a 2h). They are ~5% of my total DPS. I couldnt see how they could make or break a spec?
Mr Magoo Mar 9th 2009 4:41PM
That statement would assume that Blizzard are a complete bunch of morons. I don't think this is true myself, but I know their are whiners that do of course.
But let's face facts. Dks were OP - almost everyone knows it and accepts it. (they may not post it) They were new and shiny and they sold boxes and now they have served their purpose in that regard. RIP OP DK. :) You reign of terror has past...etc etc...meh.
Whether this was the "evil machinations of a marketing/business team" or just "boys with new toys", who knows. Besides, most of us remember locks when they came out and it was exactly the same cycle.
The are old and annoying and they ruin the arena for other classes among other things. :) Ok, so maybe not that bad! In fact I think DKs provide lots of awesome things for EVERYONE as well. I use mine as an easy to level alt. I have another for playing on my bro's server. Overall they add to the game immensely.
But the nerfs were always coming, just as they did for warlocks, so the only thing you can do is brace yourself and hope that Blizz does not overcompensate.
Also pleeeeaaaasseee always remember that GC has announced that EVERY OP class was getting the bat in 3.1. Mages, SV hunters etc. So when you are comparing your new self to a number, don't be a total moron and compare yourself to another class in 3.0.9 FFS??
That would just be stoolpid.
omenscourge Mar 9th 2009 11:14AM
Since we will no longer be able to chain cooldowns look for PVE tanks to start stacking them when bosses enrage at the end of their lives.
http://omenscourge.blogspot.com
Cahlbraun Mar 9th 2009 11:26AM
Actually, this change allows them to better balance encounters in which all tanks can use their various cooldowns in more consistant way. While Death Knight general avoidance is still going to be higher than the rest of the classes over a two minute period, the general length of most boss fights that you don't overgear will allow tanks to better time their cooldowns, allowing fight designers to add more interesting things for the to use their various shield wall abilities against without making it feel necessary to have a avoidance capped Death Knight or Druid health ocean to empty damage and mana into (Hi, Sartharion with three drakes).
omenscourge Mar 9th 2009 11:50AM
@ Cahlbraun
Stacking cooldowns for a boss enrage etc is timing your cooldowns :)
Zetapuppy Mar 9th 2009 11:26AM
Aww, you poor babies. It must be so scary to think you'll be playing at the same level as other classes...
Did you really think it would last forever?
Storm Mar 9th 2009 11:40AM
Actually, yes, we did... we are a 'Hero' class after all... I guess after 3.1 comes out, the only 'hero' part will be the 'toon at 55 before you can create one.'
But aside from that, the nerfs to tanking sucks for the undergeared, but I play my DK (when tanking) like a warrior... I save my cooldowns for enrages and such... which is funny because I don't have any further problems than warriors or paladins in survival. Of course, I am not 'tank' spec'd, but my off-gear rivals all of our best guild tanks.
I think there's only been one encounter where I've had issues, and that was on Farelina during achievement in 10-man while main-tanking in unholy dps spec... I still survived no problem and tanked Farelina and two of her adds... Maybe we are OP, but changing our cooldowns isnt going kill me any faster because of the way I play my role!
TheKarmaPolice Mar 9th 2009 11:44AM
@Storm:
The point of Hero Class was not: Make the class better than the others, it was, in fact, the part about us starting at 55 with rare and powerful gear
Mireille Mar 9th 2009 11:50AM
@ TheKarmaPolice
Don't forget the Doom Chicken! Dying was worth it for that!
styopa Mar 9th 2009 11:55AM
@ Storm:
"Actually, yes, we did... we are a 'Hero' class after all... I guess after 3.1 comes out, the only 'hero' part will be the 'toon at 55 before you can create one.'"
Then you were simply wrong.
I think it's fairly heroic to start at lvl 55 (really 58) with a FULL SET of very powerful blue gear, a full set of what 16-slot bags, and don't you even start with an epic mount?
Or did you SERIOUSLY think DK's were just meant as a way for people to play City of Heroes superhero characters vs every other poor shlub's lame pedestrian normal toons? Precisely why do you think anyone else would continue to play gimped classes when such a thing would be available? Let's see, a plate-wearing dps tank that can heal the whole party? No, nothing intrinsically uber about that....wow.
Joker Mar 9th 2009 5:49PM
Yes, I know how annoying it must be to be beaten by a deathknight when we all know that they should be torn apart like paper mache with whatever you hit them with. Seriously the deathknight hatred is sort of funny but it's more obnoxious. My Deathknight is still in outland, I'm working on my other characters, I have seen deathknights fall to range classes fairly easily. Is it that you're angry that the new class can beat you, or is it that you aren't sure how to counter them?
Aaron A. Mar 9th 2009 7:10PM
@Zetapuppy:
As an experienced Death Knight, I agree with you. DK's were meant to sail through Outland, then face the same struggles in Northrend that any other mostly-melee class does. If that's not the case, if too many Warrior and Pally tanks are getting benched for DK's, if DK's are dominating Arena because they're honestly too strong and not because "Waaah, I have to learn new tactics and rotations!", then DK's deserve a nerfing.
A few comments and nitpicks:
"I think it's fairly heroic to start at lvl 55 (really 58)"
True; bare minimum, you're looking at level 57 3/4 when you leave Acherus. Which means that a player could essentially skip levels 55-58 by leveling a character to 55, then starting a DK. Personally, I think they should have required a level 60 or 70 character to qualify for a DK, even though that means I couldn't have started a DK until January.
"with a FULL SET of very powerful blue gear,"
Sorta; they're basically Ramparts-level blues. You can power through the Plaguelands pretty easily, but I started trading in my DK gear in Hellfire Peninsula; by the time I reached Shattrath, almost all of my gear were quest rewards. The only item with any staying power is the PvP trinket.
"a full set of ... 16-slot bags,"
12-slot, actually. However, you'll earn about 25g during your starting-area quests, which is usually enough to buy a set of Netherweave Bags. Then again, I have level 30 characters with full sets of Imbued Netherweave Bags, bought with money they raised themselves by skinning, mining, and herbing as they leveled.
"and don't you even start with an epic mount?"
We get it through the intro quests, so basically yes. With the price inflation that TBC and WotLK brought, though, it's pretty darn easy to earn 600g while leveling 1-60 (see above). I probably would have made it a scalable mount like the Bone Gryphon, so that it gains speed when you reach 60, and/or provide discounted Journeyman Riding at level 60. I think that having an epic mount at 55-58 instead of 60 is more imba than the fact that we get it for free.
As you said, though, the gifts and the free levels are Heroic enough; Blizzard has always said that "Hero" was not supposed to mean "overpowered." If they truly are, then let the nerf come, and we'll see the unskilled DK's get bored and go back to their old characters.
unvme331 Apr 14th 2009 5:31PM
@storm - You sir a dumba$$, You really think that the hero class was made to be better then the other classes....really...wow that is the dumbest thing i have heard. Why would blizzard be trying to always make all the classes equal so people play all classes, then introduce a class that would top all the ones they have been working on? Not to mention Blizzard/blue posts have been made several times to say that the "hero class" title given to DK's was a mistake and it wasn't suppose to give any extra meaning to it beside the fact the start at 55 and had to have a level 55 toon on the server to make one, it never stated that they would be anything more or better then any other class, so quit your QQ'ing and learn to play your class or a different class instead of just hoping that QQ'ing will make you able to faceroll. /L2play /learntalent
P.s - Btw I have a DK tank as well, but just as an alt, and they are OP, although it fun to beat them in pvp and watch the noobs wonder how they lost!
Karma Mar 9th 2009 11:29AM
The QQ worked then. Fair enough, as soon as warriors or druids get anything resembling a buff, we'll have to pull out a biased test run to get them nerfed again.
Wulfhere Mar 9th 2009 12:06PM
Good luck waiting for that. They'll buff warriors from their 'bottom of the basement' tanking status when Icecrown thaws out.
Pally tanks all the way, man. Pally tanks all the way.
Mireille Mar 9th 2009 11:39AM
I hope to see Frenzy go the path that Corpse Explosion got. An RP cost would keep it a viable option that wouldn't mess up a rotation. Maybe something like 30-40 Runic Power for them. This may not happen since our other pet 'heal' is on the RP bar, but I'd be more happy with Death Coil if it healed more.
On another note, if they added a Frost (or even Blood, but that would have to be saved for a Death Rune rotation to not break something) Rune to the ability and brought back the cooldown, they could probably add some fun/interesting/useful effect. On Live it feels like my Ghoul pet is just something the reaper spat out, use it, kill it when I'm done with it, bring out a fresh one. Would be interesting to see a more 'personalized' Ghoul, rather than some more Cannon Fodder.
mike Mar 9th 2009 11:41AM
lol so many trolls - what's the collective noun for trolls?
A nob of trolls?
TheKarmaPolice Mar 9th 2009 11:41AM
Man there are so many bitter people in this comment section...
Grow up guys