Ghostcrawler talks about Spiritual Attunement
by Zach Yonzon 
Mar 14th 2009 at 7:00PM
Of course, if Spiritual Attunement being removed from trainers, the self-damage of Seal of Blood becomes little more than a gimmick and an inconvenience. It also tended to invalidate one glyph, which was the Glyph of Seal of Blood. If Spiritual Attunement is deep in the Protection tree, then the glyph becomes aimed at tanks... who don't use the seal. When players pointed this out on the forums, Dresorull replied to test it out in a future build (I still had Spiritual Attunement as a skill on the PTR) and locked the thread.
In a related post, Ghostcrawler lays out Blizzard's intentions for Paladin mana regeneration, saying that Spiritual Attunement is critical to Protection, but they "don't actually like Holy and Ret having (it)". He explains that such a mechanic depends too much on the encounter and gave Patchwerk as one example where SA won't return mana to anyone but a tank. He notes that Blizzard would still like to tune Paladin mana regeneration -- Holy through Illumination and Retribution through Judgements of the Wise.
When I first read about the change, my first fear was that Retribution mana regeneration would take a hit. And it will. But Blizzard clearly knows this and either planned for it or have plans to compensate. I'm curious to see how they will "tune" Illumination, which has been nerfed several times over the course of the game. It'll also be interesting how they will deal with Seal of Blood, whose feedback damage only makes Retribution Paladins a healing liability in raids. I really like the feedback mechanic, but it won't make any sense without Spiritual Attunement. Will Blizzard keep the damage now that SA will be too deep in Protection for Retribution to reach? Stay tuned. Or I should say, stay attuned.
Edit: Changed a sentence to indicate that it was Dresorull who locked the thread, and not Ghostcrawler. The QA team locking threads on the Test Realm forum is standard procedure once the report has been noted by a member of their team. -Alex
Filed under: Paladin, Patches, Analysis / Opinion
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 4)
Gusmaster Mar 14th 2009 7:12PM
Damn...that sounds like the nerf bat is going to hit ret really hard!!
Really hope bliz will compensate for that or we are at a world of pain...or at least OOM..
Yeah we will stay attuned hoping that this change wont eva goes to live!!
Whyisretgimped Mar 15th 2009 7:19AM
I have to agree with this poster and further add that if Blizzard holds to the way that Paladins have been treated in the past, Ret paladins will become non-viable in raids and possibly 5 mans. We'll be back to the days when all you could do was judge and crusader strike, because anything else would OOM you so fast, you weren't doing any damage.
I'm not sure how arbitrary decisions like "We don't want Ret to have it..." equate to good game design... Blizzard does this over and over again in all of their games and then they're touted as good game developers... makes no sense to me...
Guess it's back to tanking and healing again... at least Ret spec was fixed for a few months... and now it'll be broken again like it was for the last 3.5 years WoW's been around...
TyKell Mar 14th 2009 7:12PM
"When players pointed this out on the forums, Ghostcrawler tersely, almost irritatedly, replied to test it out in a future build (I still had Spiritual Attunement as a skill on the PTR) and locked the thread."
Just to let you know Zach when I followed the link to that locked thread Dresorull is the blue poster not Ghostcrawler.
jbodar Mar 14th 2009 7:13PM
Sigh, just when I was starting to enjoy Ret.
kozom Mar 14th 2009 7:13PM
all in favor of making an actual crab take GC's place say aye.
always_negative Mar 14th 2009 7:24PM
Seriously, I'm so sick of GC nerfing classes to the ground because 'he doesnt like it'. This guy is the WORST thing to ever happen to class balance and makes Kalgan seem like a dam genius!
Hey GC if you read this, heres a "protip":
IF IT AINT BROKE, DONT FIX IT!
you dam tool, you change talent trees more than i change underwear.
Emma Mar 14th 2009 9:31PM
Your ignorance is astounding.
It's called balance and direction. It's Blizzard's game, and paying your $15 a month simply entitles you to post on their forums and log into their game. It doesn't give you the right to direct their gameplay.
GC (and the REST) of the developers do a fantastic job given the tools and materials they are given. Considering he knowingly offers himself up as the meatshield for the section of the playerbase who, quite frankly, is a petulant whiny crowd of selfish pricks, I think he is to be commended.
Give him a break. Some classes and specs are better off than they have been in years.
TyKell Mar 14th 2009 8:11PM
I'd have to agree, I'm not a Paladin so maybe someone can explain something to me. Have Paladins always had Spiritual Atunement? If so what is so suddenly wrong about having it a skill for all specs since it's always been like that? Why change it now?
As said in one of the threads isn't it going to make it more difficult for Ret/Holy Paladins to tank in instances while leveling or whatever?
Sometimes it seems like Ghostwalker changes things for the sake of change; like he's trying to justify his job or something.
mitch Mar 14th 2009 8:30PM
Yes, Paladins have had spiritual attunement for quite a while. It was introduced in 2.0 ie. the big patch before BC.
It's been active and unchanged for over 2 years.
As I posted when this was just a rumour, I really do not understand the logic behind this. Someone has said already "if it aint broke, dont fix it".
I whole heartedly agree. I am totally boggled at the idea of this.
I check my recount at the end of each raid to have a look how much regen I get over the course of a whole raid from spiritual attunement. Over the last 2 months it's accounted for about 6% (on average) of my entire regen for a 25man raid. On certain AOE "intensive" fights like Saph or Gluth or Maly it spikes to about 10% of my regen for that fight only.
I'm not sure how much regen it accounts for on a Prot pally or Ret pally in the same situation but for Holy, the regen is so minimal that I don't know how GC can justify it (but hey it's GC if he doesn't like he changes it without thought).
I can't even see Prot speccing it either. Blessing of Sanc and Diving Plea provide enough regen and Ret still have Judgements of the Wise and Divine Plea as well (plus both get Replenishment). Then there's Seal of Wisdom if things need a boost and Judgement of Wisdom is providing even more regen.
GC, how about you focus your time and effort on something that ISN'T broken and perhaps move it to more important issues.
Rhozul Mar 14th 2009 8:33PM
Tykell: Spiritual Attunement was introduced in the Burning Crusade. It was originally a passive talent that causes a Paladin to regain mana whenever they are healed by another player. Traditionally, the number has been 10%, but several Glyphs and a Tier Set Bonus increase the number.
Although this glyph was originally intended to allow Paladin tanks to replenish mana (which was one of the reasons Paladins could not tank in Old-School WoW - A lack of resource regeneration), Retribution Paladins used it with Seal of Blood to regain Mana. Also, Holy Paladins who got hit by raid damage would often let the raid healer heal them and get mana back as a result.
The Dev Team has decided that having a mechanic that either restores too much mana or none at all wasn't good for Holy and Ret. It mind of makes sense if you think about it. How much damage does a Holy Paladin take on a good Patchwerk attempt? How much do they take on Sapphiron?
In newer threads, Ghostcrawler has stated that the Dev team plans on increasing Mana Regeneration to Holy and Ret to compensation; on fights like Sapphiron Holy and Ret Paladins will probably have less regen. On fights like Patchwerk, they'll definitely have more. Also, I'm pretty sure Ghostcrawler stated that the Seal of Blood Glyph will probably be changed, but his wording implied that he made no promises so people like the readers of this site don't tear him to shreds when it doesn't happen next build.
All in all, I see this as a good thing for the class. Having your total Mana Regeneration rely on the fight is kinda lame, I think. Hopefully they'll do something about Seal of Blood; damage done to you is kind of an annoying gimmick now. But by no means do I see this as a reason to yell "To the Ground!"
sometimes_positive Mar 14th 2009 8:39PM
i re-read my original comment, and it may have been a bit harsh. It was a knee-jerk post and seeing how my account is perma-banned from wow forums for posting about titans grip back during the leaked alpha I haven't been able to properly vent my frustrations.
My opinion still stands though, I'm sick of having my favorite class(es) feeling like a ping-pong ball due to the whims of Ghostcrawler and his posse. I just wish he would use a surgeons knife instead of a chainsaw. Eh, whatever.
Shrews Mar 14th 2009 8:42PM
Paladins have had Spiritual Atunement ever since the 2.0 patch came out right before BC. Aside from a few other changes this is what ability basically gave paladins the ability to tank because they wouldn't run out of mana 10 seconds into the fight.
That said balancing Ret and Holy without spiritual attunement is probably a lot easier for blizz, and leads to more consistent amount of mana between fights. As he said it's not hard to change a talent like Illumination of Judgments of the Wise. I think Holy and Ret paladins will be fine in that regard.
The real problems in my mind come for the paladin trying to tank as an off spec or trying to tank while leveling up. As many have said this is just removing what is basically a necessary tanking ability. Even somebody who is leveling as prot will not be able to tank is they put the talent in deep prot. Sanctuary isn't really enough mana back and Divine Plea isn't until lvl 71.
The other obvious changes they need to make are to seal of blood and it's glyph. If they just change the glyph to remove the recoil damage I won't be happy. The other problem is that they are taking away an ability we already had and making us spend 2 points on it. I'm hoping they bake it in with another talent because this won't bring the prot tree back to bloated status just when I thought it was fixed and really limit prot paladin talent specs.
Fairlane Mar 14th 2009 7:20PM
To the ground, indeed.
brucimus Mar 14th 2009 7:29PM
To the ground! Retnubs can back to their skirts and heal
Wasuremono Mar 14th 2009 7:46PM
no, they can't even do that because us skirted paladins are getting nerfed too
themightysven Mar 14th 2009 7:38PM
hey, I have an idea, let's make specific talents obligatory! then everyone in that tree will have the same setup, and we won't have to think about encounters anymore!
that's a great idea, how do we do it?
take away their mana, if they don't have enough, they'll only ever use like 3 skills, then we can focus on those skills.
brilliant.
wait, what about all those people leveling who can't get to those talents yet?
you're kidding, right? people only play endgame, and only how we want them to play.
I know, I was kidding
(all laugh)
end scene
Kaphik Mar 14th 2009 8:17PM
Sadly, I totally agree with you here.
Alkaios Mar 15th 2009 12:26AM
My mind put this to the tune of "DBZ In a Nutshell" and lol'd.
RogueJedi86 Mar 14th 2009 7:47PM
"When I first read about the change, my first fear was that Retribution mana regeneration would take a hit. And it will. But Blizzard clearly knows this and either planned for it or have plans to compensate."
Instead of removing and it and compensating for its removal, why not just cut out the middle man and don't remove it so there's no compensation needed? Like putting a band-aid on a wound you just made to fix it instead of leaving the sking alone to begin with.
Heilig Mar 14th 2009 9:03PM
Because with the amount of raid damage they're planning for Ulduar, if Holy still has access to SA they will never go OOM, completely nullifying Blizzard's stated desire to make mana management more of an issue. And to be honest, Holy is broken right now mana-wise. No holy pally worth his salt ever has to worry about mana at all.
That said, making it Prot-only is about the stupidest thing I've ever seen. Ret is HEAVILY reliant on SA to regen mana so they can keep up competitive DPS. GC shows how very little he understands this in the quote from the forums:
"We don't actually like Holy and Ret having SA. It makes their mana regen depend too much on the encounter specifics. On fights like Patchwerk, they have no mana from SA. On dragon fights, they have a ton. That makes it hard to tune on our end because they are either starved in the first case or drowning in the second case."
The fight matters not at all where ret is concerned. We are reliant on the mana returned from SA when we are healed from the steady, predictable damage we do to ourselves via Seal of Blood. On Patchwerk, I do about 500 DPS to myself with SoB. On Maly, it's about 450. That equates to 250ish MP5 that they're taking away from Ret, REGARDLESS OF THE ENCOUNTER. Yes, in heavy raid damage situations we will have more mana than we know what to do with. Almost as if we were ANY OTHER MELEE CLASS that relies on a very quickly replenished resource rather than one that starts full and goes away as it is used.
Ghostcrawler can say they don't like it all they want, that's fine. But if they don't find a way to give us 250-300 MP5 to make up for the loss from SA + SoB, then they just completely broke Ret.
Again.