GC: If you're OOM, tell your guildies to get out of the fire
Ghostcrawler did battle with the forumites this weekend, and the topic of discussion was the recent mana changes. Players are saying that the changes (including the BoW and Mana Spring change last week) are basically forcing them to bring more healers along to larger raids, and GC in return expounds on the raid balance that Blizzard is aiming for lately. Interestingly, it's not the 5 healers / 5 tanks / 15 DPS that you might think it would be -- Ghostcrawler says that if they aimed for that makeup, bringing more healers would often make the fights inconsequential.He goes on to say that the way the fights are designed, you aren't supposed to run out of mana, as long as you're dodging the AoE and are geared up correctly. Making mistakes in gameplay digs into your mana reserves, and so when Blizzard nerfs mana regen, they aren't just trying to make things harder, they're trying to take away that extra breathing room that you get around errors. They don't want healers just healing through damage -- they want people trying to avoid it in the first place.
And, if guildies won't get out of the fire, and your healers keep running out of mana because of it, it's time to weed out the ranks a bit. Finally, GC adds what we've heard before: those looking for a tough battle in Ulduar likely won't find it right away -- the instance is designed to be only a little harder than Naxx. But the hard modes are where the difficulty will really ramp up. If short, says GC, if you don't have enough mana on the easy modes, it's not Blizzard's design: it's the way you and your guildies are geared and playing.
Filed under: Patches, Analysis / Opinion, Odds and ends, Blizzard, Instances, Raiding, Classes
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Reader Comments (Page 2 of 3)
Doffencrag Mar 16th 2009 3:35PM
"...they're trying to take away that extra breathing room that you get around errors..."
The keyword is 'extra'. They aren't removing the theoretical breathing room completely. If the breathing room is large (meaning the most dense players can survive on a learning run), then it becomes trivial for well-geared and skilled players. Thus the decrease.
Craig R Mar 16th 2009 4:35PM
also, I think everyone acknowledges, the 'fuck you' abilities vael had are infamous compared to most raid bosses.
Deb Mar 16th 2009 3:18PM
Sometimes I think Mr. Ghostcrawler needs to walk the trenches. There is already short on healers and it's now become incumbent upon us to not only concentrate on health bars but also be "situationally aware". Now we have to manage our mana more that ever before. Bringing more healers is laughable.
firant Mar 16th 2009 3:27PM
Our game is less fun!? It's your fault!
Lyraat Mar 16th 2009 3:29PM
5 healers, 5 tanks, 15 dps? Im trying to remember the last time we brought 5 true tanks (not fake ones, like the lock on Illidan). Pre-BC, I guess. We usually run 3-4 tanks, 6-7 healers, 13-16 dps depending on the fight. And yes, we ask our healers to be as situationally aware as any other class.
The Claw Mar 16th 2009 7:29PM
The point wasn't that you DO take 5 tanks, it's that if 25-man raids were really 5-man groups scaled up 5 times, you WOULD take 5 tanks and 5 healers.
The fact that it doesn't work that way means that there can be a tank shortage at the heroic level, and a tank glut at the 25-man level, for instance.
Caz Mar 16th 2009 3:29PM
I don't seem to have much trouble with mana except on a few fights where I'm always pretty nervous about it.
As far as Sarth goes, my biggest problem is not so much the guildies that can't avoid the lava waves - but me! I am so focused on the life bars of the raid members that it's sometimes really, really hard to coordinate my toon around the lava waves and keep my eyes on the life bars.
Not impossible mind you, just difficult.
I really need more practice in there, but my guild has an aversion to that fight, and they'd rather spend gold on Naxx-related repairs.
stevens.ce Mar 16th 2009 3:33PM
The more we hear from Ghostcrawler, the more I think there was some benefit in the old days when no one from Blizzard ever talked about game design intent. I liked working my way through an encounter assuming that there was some magic formula for success, rather than that my entire group was just getting hit by the nerf bat in an attempt to make things just a little harder.
I agree that skill should be the primary determinant for raid success, but sometimes skill seems a little more driven by the RNG than by the group I'm with. Particularly in PUGs, where so many things seem to go wrong, a little bit of breathing room to learn the encounter and for newbies to learn their roles might be welcome. I know Naxx and OS are on easy-mode compared to previous raids, but new people still need a place to learn how to raid, and it does seem like there are some places where that can be hard - on the healers especially.
And ditto the earlier comment about lag and frogger - I hate those damn globs.
Rock Mar 17th 2009 5:22AM
I could see heroic KT as kind of RNG based. Wrong people get mc'ed game over. But heroic KT is such a great fight for finding out your raids weaknesses.
john Mar 16th 2009 8:16PM
I agree with where you're coming from. I used to look forward to hearing from GC on the forums, starting with his input during the Wrath beta forum days. Now he just sounds more and more like the games' elitist jackasses I loath to even associate with.
I am in a guild that is, at times, held back more by RNG and connection issues than by skill and desire to hang in there for new content. But I'd "choose the player" any day over leaving and joining a different group just to beat bosses. The game for me is based on hanging out with friends and having a good time. To continue to nerf the different classes as a way to make content harder rather than simply making the content tougher seem lazy and backwards to me.
Sarabande Mar 17th 2009 8:24AM
I agree with John. :)
"The game for me is based on hanging out with friends and having a good time. To continue to nerf the different classes as a way to make content harder rather than simply making the content tougher seem lazy and backwards to me."
I think there are ways to make situations more difficult without
doing so for entire roles or classes. And for those of us not even planning to see the inside of Ulduar, it's frustrating to think that we may have healer shortage for 5 mans because even with dual spec, many may not enjoy it anymore. (Especially with PuGs often blaming the healer for any wipe, whether or not it was their fault). Maybe the best raiders can take it but this sort of nerf will affect those who either don't raid or are casual raiders as well.
I think Uldual NEEDS to be hard. It should be something to test the best players and best raiding guilds, for people going for the best gear, the toughest challenges, the progression, the glory of being there and being victorious. Some fights shouldn't be dumbed down for the casual players. But that's where the challenges should be created, not in changing how the classes operate.
veil Mar 16th 2009 3:38PM
lets recap...
masses | everythings so eeeasy now, blaaaargh!
ghostcrawler | we're tweaking regen so your healers have to be tighter and you have to suck less.
masses | waaaah you're making it harder than it has to be!
a little oversimplified, but the intent is there.
Michael Mar 16th 2009 5:07PM
/agree
Naix Mar 16th 2009 3:39PM
I play a Warlock. I am brought to do top damage in a raid. Healers are brought to heal.
Caz Mar 16th 2009 4:18PM
That doesn't negate the fact that you should assume some responsibility for your own well being. Sometimes it's simply impossible to keep every player up, and a life potion can mean the difference between the healer having that couple extra seconds of time time to save your ass - or not.
Candina@WH Mar 16th 2009 4:41PM
Healers are there to heal. Yep.
Rule 13 of raiding -- do not stand in that.
If you are so dim as to think that your own survival is someone elses responsibility (and you are not a tank) then you are expendable.
You are there to DPS. Great! But I can find 15 guys Just like you who won't stand in the fire. Advantage --> Survival.
bundee Mar 16th 2009 5:12PM
You are brought to be part of a raid. You are not there on your own, you are part of a group. Your group's success depends heavily on individuals. I raid as a balance druid, so I'm there to DPS. Which I do. But if a healer needs an innervate, we need to brez someone, I need to decurse, remove poison, or offheal momentarily, I will do it. I look out for the best interests of the raid to ensure we succeed as a group.
Eisengel Mar 16th 2009 5:42PM
You are brought to do DPS? Great.
DPS = Damage Per Second
This means your DPS goes down while the fight is still going on if you aren't doing damage. That happens when you die before the boss does. To maximize your DPS, you have to stay alive and do damage the entire fight.
So, if you do DPS, then you obviously do everything you can to stay alive the entire fight, like avoiding fire and being situationally aware, good job!
Kemikalkadet Mar 16th 2009 5:47PM
If the tank dies, it's the healers fault.
If the Healer dies, it's the tanks fault.
If the DPS dies, it's their own damned fault.
FireStar Mar 16th 2009 3:42PM
I thought it was more : 4 healers, 3 tanks, the rest dps (25 man). That's what we always do. Even 10 man vault is Easily 1 healed by a resto shammy (i.e. still 20k mana after the fight). dps just need to do their job and stay out of the crap.