Patch 5.4 patch notes
Virtual Realms feature revealed
The Proving Grounds are coming
The latest patch 5.4 newsGC: If you're OOM, tell your guildies to get out of the fire
by Mike Schramm 
Mar 16th 2009 at 3:00PM
Ghostcrawler did battle with the forumites this weekend, and the topic of discussion was the recent mana changes. Players are saying that the changes (including the BoW and Mana Spring change last week) are basically forcing them to bring more healers along to larger raids, and GC in return expounds on the raid balance that Blizzard is aiming for lately. Interestingly, it's not the 5 healers / 5 tanks / 15 DPS that you might think it would be -- Ghostcrawler says that if they aimed for that makeup, bringing more healers would often make the fights inconsequential.He goes on to say that the way the fights are designed, you aren't supposed to run out of mana, as long as you're dodging the AoE and are geared up correctly. Making mistakes in gameplay digs into your mana reserves, and so when Blizzard nerfs mana regen, they aren't just trying to make things harder, they're trying to take away that extra breathing room that you get around errors. They don't want healers just healing through damage -- they want people trying to avoid it in the first place.
And, if guildies won't get out of the fire, and your healers keep running out of mana because of it, it's time to weed out the ranks a bit. Finally, GC adds what we've heard before: those looking for a tough battle in Ulduar likely won't find it right away -- the instance is designed to be only a little harder than Naxx. But the hard modes are where the difficulty will really ramp up. If short, says GC, if you don't have enough mana on the easy modes, it's not Blizzard's design: it's the way you and your guildies are geared and playing.
Filed under: Patches, Analysis / Opinion, Odds and ends, Blizzard, Instances, Raiding, Classes
Reader Comments (Page 3 of 3)
Jamus Mar 16th 2009 4:05PM
"And, if guildies won't get out of the fire, and your healers keep running out of mana because of it, it's time to weed out the ranks a bit."
I see how that goes first hand... it is the Healer's fault. Do you know how many in-group fights this will spawn? Finger pointing will be even bigger than it is now.
On a similar topic, anyone know an addon that will tell the tank/dps when they are out of healing range of their Healer? Sometimes they get a wild hair to run a wee bit too far out in front...
Catrie Mar 16th 2009 9:45PM
Healers have always been blamed if something goes wrong. We're pretty much used to it. The thing that tells the tanks and dps they are too far away to be healed is Vent. Either that or they get this nice little message saying " You're dead. Wanna release?"
Yes, this version of Naxx is waaay easier than the old version. MC, BWL, AQ, Naxx, all of them were way harder. People tend to forget that GC once said that this Naxx is an introduction to raiding for those that have never been able to before. Raiding 101. Ulduar would be the 2nd level of that and so on. There aren't really any new challenges in the current content.
The current stuff hasn't been a challenge to us because we've been able to heal through it and not really have to think about mana regen or conservation. That's boring as hell. I want to be challenged. I want to go back to the old school days where I had to worry about running out of mana.
We have more ways to regen mana now, than we did 4 years ago. I had mana pots and the 5 sec rule. That was it. Now, I've got tons of choices on how to keep my mana up, even if it's not coming directly from me. Just about every mana based class has some way to regen mana for themselves and their raid.
The sky isn't falling. Our healing isn't broken. Shaman will still drop totems. From now on, people should be held accountable for their own actions of standing in flames, void zones, and any other colored circles or lines of death.
nonentity Mar 16th 2009 4:17PM
I totally support this move by now. At first I was definitely not a fan of the manareg adjustments etc. but the more I hear about their reasons the more I'm ok with it.
It really sucks right now, we got some awesome people in the raid, but we probably won't be able to get the heroic raid meta achievement before 3.1 hits because some f*cktards just keep dying in the fissures etc
I am amongst the top damage dealers in my raid, I rarely if ever die in fissures etc yet I probably won't get the black proto-drake before 3.1 because of those... people.
I really look forward to Ulduar and the new harder difficulty and hope that those people either finally get it or get kicked or whatever.
nonentity Mar 16th 2009 4:27PM
btw, I'm referring to damage dealers, I get it that tanks, healers and DDs that have to do additional stuff like calming down enraged fire elementals etc. might occasionally die from those effects just because they got the more difficult jobs.
But "simple" damage dealers should not f*cking die...
Scott Mar 16th 2009 4:17PM
Haha.
WoW 101
------------------------------
Session 1: Avoiding AE Damage -- "Don't stand in the &*@%ing fire!!! /facepalm"
Session 2: Proper Gearing -- "Not bringing a knife to a gun fight."
Session 3: Final.
**Extra Credit: 3 man the Safety Dance achievement on heroic mode.
I understand people get hit by AE damage sometimes. It happens to everyone sometimes. However, when people are constantly standing in the fire, locust swarm, or any other AE and forcing your healers to go OOM: they're a problem in your raid. They need to be talked to, helped out, or booted. I guess the solution depends on your guilds 'hardcore' mentality :-)
Morgoroth Mar 16th 2009 4:37PM
I agree with scott. Shit happens. Hell last night I died in a fissure on heroic KT. First time that ever happened to me, but it does happen and I try to be understanding when it happens to others. But repeatedly dying by "standing in the fire" makes you a liability to the entire raid. When you have 6 dps die on the first polarity switch during Heroic Thad, all you can do is /facepalm.
We have taken to using addons that call people out. For example, we have one that announces in raid fissure and flame wall fails for Sarth. Some guild members aren't to happy with being called out, but hey, if that's what it takes to improve our progress as a guild we will continue on with it.
jason Mar 16th 2009 4:34PM
GC is going too hardcore. His comments seem to indicate this game is about hard core raiding and that is all.
Alot of the nerfs seem to affect leveling a great deal and they seem to forget about that. Not everyone has tons of time to play so they need to keep an eye on the specs people use while leveling so as not to nerf anything there.
Also, people don't start out as the worlds greatest raiders with all knowledge of all things. Everyone sucks at first. And it takes time to learn how to interact with others and how to play your class and spec to the best of your abilities. It takes time to learn the instance.
And the changes will make things less forgiving which is going to mean more wipes while people learn the raid. Which equals frustration.
Yeah, weeding out your raid group is find and dandy for you but it's no fun for those who are just trying to learn and now find no one will play with them.
Kaphik Mar 16th 2009 4:46PM
Yes, and no. As stated in this column, Ulduar isn't going to be much more difficult than Naxx is right now. So, unless the gear from the so called "hard modes" is going to be several levels above what is gotten from regular mode, you are going to be an even bigger burnout by raiders. The achievments just aren't enough to push people.
Right now, many people are gearing up their second or third 80 running the same old raids again and again. Their reason to continue raiding is hoping that the new content is going to be challenging and interesting. I personally think it would be much, much better for everyone if the difficulty ramped up greatly from first boss in Ulduar to last boss. Sadly, I don't think this is going to be the case.
The more I read about the changes to the classes and game mechanics, the more I come to believe that the developers are both running out of ideas and getting lazy. They seems to be upset that people have gotten creative in the ways to defeat bosses, and instead of trying to challenge people by forcing them to come up with even more creative ways, they just nerf the classes.
Chuddy Mar 16th 2009 4:47PM
Jason, I understand what you're saying. It's a difficult task when things like raiding content first start out. To be fair to blizzard it's a transition stage. Us nerds, see, we have a problem changing. It seems that the game has taken a swing to be friendler to newer players while still providing some content. It's a middle ground. Can we meet there and call it a success? Go too far you alienate a lot, go the other, the same. Look at politics. It always shifts back to the moderate.
I would say that leveling is easiest it has ever been. There is nary a reason to group with anyone and some of these changes aren't going to be noticed too heavily. Maybe if you are a DK you will see swings back and forth harsher. Have patience. Dont get wrapped up into the numbers. You'll go nuts.
mastercontrolcast.wordpress.com
thebvp Mar 16th 2009 5:01PM
I like to think of raid instances as having educational themes, like each one is designed to teach its players about things like line of sight, spatial awareness, conserving your resources, etc. Let’s take a look at what each has taught us:
Molten Core: L2 basic raid composition, not stand in the poo and run when your name is called.
Onyxia: L2not stand near the whelps/MOAR DOTS.
Blackwing Lair: L2not stand in the poo and LOS.
AQ40: L2coordinate as a group.
Old Naxx: L2 everything at once and not stand in the poo.
Karazhan: L2basic raid coordination and not stand in the poo.
Gruul: L2 not stand in the poo that falls from the sky.
Pre-nerf Magtheridon: L2die and click boxes. Poo falls from the sky. Stay out of it.
SSC/TK:L2 not stand in the poison poo.
Hyjal:L2 not stand in the poo.
BT: Stay out of the damn poo.
Sunwell: I didn’t get past Mu’ru, but I’m pretty sure there’s some poo involved in there somewhere that you’re supposed to stay out of.
New Naxx: L2OMGZERG
Is there a pattern here? Literally every raid instance Blizzard has made up until now has employed some sort of mechanic that has required its players to be aware of their surroundings. If there is one thing to be learned by any of these instances, it’s to stay out of the damn poo, whether it be fire, black circles, or whatever. It’s not that difficult.
As far as I’m concerned, these mechanics should hurt MORE. The old rain of fire ticks in BWL could kill you in 5 seconds if you weren’t paying attention. Blizzard has spent four years teaching us how to do essentially the same thing and I don’t think it’s elitist to require players not be raid zombies.
L2Think Mar 21st 2009 8:29PM
/agree 100% thebvp
Verit Mar 16th 2009 8:51PM
Naxx isn't a zerg - especially when you first step in with quest gear. Of all the bosses - not a single one standing in the "fire" can be totally healed through with everything else going on and I'm speaking as a healer who does have every best in slot item and a ton of regen/mana.
To really zerg a fight you have to go into it with no prior knowledge of strategy, positioning or anything else - and outheal/dps everything the boss does - like doing AQ40 with 10 people and no tank at lvl 80 (which I've done) - we simply out damaged and out healed everything they did. I can't think of too many bosses in naxx - even with best in slot items and top dps that are this way (keep in mind - you have to do the boss without any positioning, strategy or planned movement involved) - they do exist, but there's only a handfull (anub comes to mind).
Grob - On 10 man especially - I'd like the meet the group that zergs this with no strat (and no prior experience with the encounter - which I think fully qualifies a zerg strategy) and lives. I don't know how you could heal through multiple diseases dropping on the raid and the tank and everyone else through the dot from standing on diseases.
Honestly the only reason BC raids were so hard was because it was much harder to gear up (multiple instances for t5/t6 items for instance) - once most guilds were geared there were zerg like bt raids at 70 even before 3.0.
Another reason naxx is so easy is because its well understood. A good chunk of people did it at 70 for fun.
GeorgeS Mar 16th 2009 8:00PM
Given that some of us in places like Australia have poor latency (400ms is average), we have more chances to fail at this sort of fight. So GC you can lick my balls.
Plinglebob Mar 16th 2009 8:17PM
While I agree that mana regen does need to be nerfed a bit. I agree that we have too much mana available to us at the moment and I really shouldnt be 2 man healing Saph or KT and have 50% mana at the end. However, I expect them to end up being too heavy handed and messing up healing big time.
The thing I like about healing the most is having to have quick reactions, knowing what heal to use in which situation and the satisfaction you get from saving someone at 1% health. I even enjoy it when people stand in the assorted doo doo bosses spoit out as it gives me more to do. What I dont like about healing is not being able to keep the tank alive because I've used my pot, my shadowfiend is on c/d and my mana regen is doing nothing. If GC wants to make healing more fun, they should make encounters where you have to time your heals like Loetheb. Maybe a fight where the tank receives 2 attacks every 30 seconds, 1 which knocks them to 10% health, the next reduces their health by 30% meaning the healers have to work to get the tank healed before the second blow.
Healing is fun. Watching my mana bar isn't.
drug Mar 18th 2009 3:13PM
What GC states is very true, but if that's the way they wanna go they have to do an excellent job at balancing of mana regen.
If one healing class is more likely to run oom than others, fingers will be pointed at them and not at the dps in the fire, especially if they pull off decent numbers.
Esk Mar 17th 2009 7:27AM
GC finally has a good point... after screwing around with the PvP, this time he actually says something with common sense, and I totally agree.
How many idiots are still taking the fire wall at Sartharion? Specially in PuGs? How many of you have the achievement where nobody gets hit by the fire during the fight? (all raid has to avoid getting hit).
In PuGs I don't even bother healing the morons that can't avoid the fire. Too bad other healers do it... those people should be let to die and be cut from the loot in the end.
People need to L2P and stop relying on the healers to make up for their mistakes. Blizz makes the graphic elements so big that it's almost impossible to miss it. And we still have people sleeping during the fight. Really the game should be more than standing still and spamming 1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1