Officers' Quarters: Time for another rant

Every Monday Scott Andrews contributes Officers' Quarters, a column about the ins and outs of guild leadership.
In my first rant last year, I called out all the officers who, in the dark times before Wrath went live, resorted to rampant poaching -- rather than alliances -- to keep their raiding guilds afloat. Today I am going to rant about nonofficers. And specifically, against my better judgment as a contributor who would like to continue writing this column for WoW Insider, I'm going to rant about some of the people who obviously read this column and have written me to ask for advice.
I appreciate the fact that you think of me as someone to turn to for help. It's certainly flattering and I have tried to give you the best advice that I can.
However, I have been trying to answer a lot of e-mails over the past week and I see the same type of complaint over and over again. I won't use a real e-mail as an example, because I don't want to embarrass anyone, but the gist of these e-mails goes like this:
Hi, Scott.
I am not an officer in my guild. I am a member who attends raids and earns loot. But I don't like a decision the officers have made, or I disagree with the way they run the guild. How can I change the guild to be the way I want it to be?
Sincerely,
Concerned Player
Before anyone else writes me an e-mail like that, I'd like you to take a step back and reflect on your situation for a moment. You are able to attend raids. Your raids are successful and you have geared up your character. You seem to be having fun. The guild seems to be doing OK. Who is largely responsible for that?
If the answer is you, then by all means tell me about your guild. Tell me about how the officers have hindered your every move. Write about how, despite their short-sighted incompetence and contempt for your ideas, you've managed to take the guild on your shoulders and carry it toward a bright future. There are some really terrible officers out there, so I'm sure this has happened on several occasions. It would be a great example for members frustrated with bumbling leadership about how to turn a guild around, and I'd love to share it with my readers.
However, if the answer is not you, but rather the officers who are largely responsible for the guild's success, please think about that before you write to me. Think about the time and the energy they've devoted to making the guild what it is. Think about the real-life money they might be spending every month so the guild can have a Vent server and/or website. Think about the drama they have to deal with and the many players they struggle to keep happy day after day.
I'm sure these players are in the minority and most people are thankful for the officers they have. But I just needed to write about this topic, because I've started to get the feeling that too many officers aren't getting the credit they deserve. Yes, raiding in Wrath is easier than ever, but that doesn't mean it takes no effort to organize and lead raids. It doesn't mean it isn't a thorny and delicate situation every time you put a raid together, choosing who should go on which toon, trying to work in members who are new to the zone or someone's alt they've been wanting to gear up, while still having enough gear and experienced people to get through it. It doesn't mean there aren't arguments over loot that your officers have to resolve.
If they have stopped doing these things, then you certainly have a right to complain. If they haven't, then please be grateful for their efforts. It doesn't mean you have to approve of every decision they make. It's your guild, too, and you should be able to voice your opinions. The advice that I've given to these readers is always the same: Talk to the officers about it if you really have a problem with what they're doing. Either they will agree with you or they won't. If they don't agree with you, you can either live with it or quit the guild.
What I can't tell you is how to change your officers' minds or force them to see things your way. If your guild is having fun and meeting its goals, it's entirely possible that most of their opinions have been valid. It's entirely possible that most of their decisions have been sound. You are lucky. Many guilds have not had such officers, and most of those guilds have collapsed or disappeared.
So, hats off to all the good officers out there. And hats off to the members who appreciate them. Boo, everyone else.
/salute
Filed under: Officers' Quarters (Guild Leadership)
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Reader Comments (Page 4 of 6)
Sharkhunt Mar 16th 2009 10:37AM
Related Suggestion: If you want to bring about constructive change, why not start a non-whiny discussion about it on your guild forums and try to build consensus there?
"Talk to the officers" reads a lot like "bring it up in whisper chat." Officers already have to deal with so much crap in whisper during time that they're spending in-game that this might not be the best way to present your suggestion.
Avaelin Mar 16th 2009 10:44AM
/cheer
Now if only this article will be taken to heart by said people it will be a happy day.
W01ph Mar 16th 2009 10:44AM
Amen, I'm rather lucky I think, I'm GM of my guild, and I have many members frequently comment on their appreciation for what I've done for them, and what I continue to try and do for the guild as a whole. But it is definitely frustrating to have members complain about 1 aspect, that they can contribute greatly to, yet will not put forth the effort to do so.
Is there bad leadership out there? definitely!
Is there also excellent, yet under appreciated leadership out there? also most definitely!
most of the people saying that this is a bad article, I'm guessing that you're one of those that have sent in an e-mail, the gist of which made up the example given. Being an officer, let alone GM is difficult enough, we don't need 'back-seat guild leaders' that think their sh** doesn't stink raising hell. I've had that happen in my guild, and when they left to make a guild of their own, it was epic fail. Consider that as well when you want to rant about the rant.
draxredd Mar 16th 2009 10:46AM
To the officers and guild leaders out there...
Take a long, hard look at your own reasons to dedicate so much time and energy to having a "successful raiding guild".
Your doing it for the enjoyment of your guildmates, warming your heart from the yaping over nice epic loots over TS, still able to get into a 5man heroic instance for the sheer fun of it, showing newbies the ropes ?
Or are you doing it for the reward of being the "successful leader" of a "successful raid", making each player into a "successful raid member", fostering a competitive spirit amongst _and between_ your very own little army?
Sad thing is, all guilds devolve from the first to the second case, given time. If your not of the competitive-compulsive type, learn to /gquit when the "serious raiding" posts on the guild's forum appear because fun is about to leave, too.
Sharkhunt Mar 16th 2009 11:19AM
I don't think these are mutually exclusive things. Showing a newbie the ropes sometimes involves educating them about their role in a group and how to play to the strengths of their class....pretty much the same process that help someone evolve into a successful raid member. The top performers in the group I run with enjoy friendly competition, its just another way to have fun in game alongside the other things that you mentioned.
Most "serious raiding" posts I've seen revolve around having consideration for other people's time by showing up on time and prepared and paying enough attention to avoid standing in the fire.
Daymon Mar 16th 2009 10:57AM
Omg thankyou, i deal with those desitions everyday I log, as a GM and Co-RL it is a pain when they don't recognice your effort, when I pass on gear to help the rest and overall make the raid progress. Ppl wanting to bring their alts to raids in farm, ppl in alts at the time to start the raid and wanting to finish some heroics, ppl wanting this and that piece of gear when they are just try outs, ppl not logging in the hard raids when the rest was already cleared and still trying to form the group to go, even having to phone ppl to see if they will log or not.
But sometimes they do and you feel good that your hard work wasn't unnoticed.
Hyperrion Mar 16th 2009 11:10AM
So what you're really saying to the non-officers is shut the hell up and don't complain and lay wreathes andflowers at the ffet of your officers. And if you're concerned or want some don't waste my time.
To me it sounded like you voted for Bush/MCcain since you don't want to help people , when people do ask you for help, you tell them to bad so sad.
Why dont you just leave, obviuosly you have nothg more to contribute here. You've cleary given tyour basic philisophy and arent willing to change that in essence "You're on your own"
SarahTheGnome Mar 16th 2009 11:52AM
Apparently you fail at reading, because that is not what he said at all.
bob Mar 16th 2009 12:19PM
@SarahTheGnome No that's EXACTLY what he is saying.
Mennoknight Mar 16th 2009 1:04PM
actually he's not. And there was no mention of politics either. He said to wait a second and consider why you were upset before you started causing issues about it.
1) Not getting the tier token defaulted to you on a guilds first kill of that boss is not a reason to be upset.
2)Not being able to raid with the guild when you refuse to run heroics and do nothing to gear yourself is not a reason to be upset.
3) Not being able to to achievements because your guild is more concerned with gearing up every member rather than just taking the same 8 people to a raid week in and week out is not a reason to be upset.
If the officers are not listening to the guild, or only taking their friends to raid, gearing up only themselves, etc... then there is a reason to do something. Something more than complaining. If you approach the officers with your concerns and they do nothing, then you take action.
SarahTheGnome Mar 16th 2009 1:24PM
No bob, it is not what he is saying. He is encouraging to speak to officers when you have issues. All he is saying is: make a list in your head about all the things you never feel like complaining about, then list, next to that, the one complaint you have now and feel that is such a big deal.
Maybe, when weighing both those lists, one negative aspect is not really worth starting a war over. A little secret here. Officers and guildleaders, often do things, and take the decisions, they do not approve of themselves, but they make them for the good of the guild, because the majority wants it so. They don't attempt to mould the entire guild into their own little playground where they get all the fun and rewards while members suffer. So naturally, members will, in turn, not like every single decision either. That's life, that's how it works. You can never please everyone 100%.
All that is being said here is; hey, if you like 90% of how the guild works, is the 10% really worth feeling so crap and mistreated about? Or could you give kudos that the guildleader and officers actually managed to make you happy for 90%?
Raenn Mar 16th 2009 11:18AM
Thank you for this.
wintersdark Mar 17th 2009 12:22PM
While Wrath content may well be ridiculously easy, it's still *every bit as much work* to organize raids and run a guild. It's a huge investment of time, effort, and often real life money.
The vast majority of guild members contribute nothing aside from being a raid slot filler. This isn't an insult, but it is something to be aware of. When you're just a guild member, have some respect for the people who are putting in the time and effort so that you can have fun.
Over the years, I've been in a half dozen or so serious raiding guilds. I've been an officer in 2 of them - the first two. I've turned down officer positions in the later guilds, and I'll never, ever be one again. It's way, way more work than I'm willing to put in - if I'm an officer, I don't get any time to actually *play*.
Anyways, I'm rambling.
TLDR Version:
The officers keeping your guild going are putting in a LOT of work. Show them the respect they deserve, because without them you've got nothing. There are literally *millions* of random players out there, but there are precious few people willing - and able - to put the that time and effort in.
Mcarthy Mar 16th 2009 11:23AM
I prefer to work from the inside as well.
If there are officers who are not responding to lgetimate problems. What i willl do is start recruiting from within while pointing out the obvious problems with the officers and guild leadership
Frankly the leadership of guilds must be more responsive to non-officers and tanke thier concersn into account and fix the problems. If they don't then i feel i have free leave to get inside and grab people who i also know are unhappy and move to a guild were they are more responsive.
If the guild in question falls a part, meh. Not my problem they leadership should have had thier finger on the pulse more if they wanted to the guild to survive.
It's very good way to work with the emotions of non-officers, especially the raiders in the group who are feeling locked or left out. A few choice comments here or there and quite easily you have 9 or 10 people who are ready to go and leave the old guild and it's leadership swinging in the wind wondering how thier guild fell appart
So to the obnoxious officers and guild leaders, you should be wary of people like me. I know how people feel in this game and i know how to blow your guilds up. It's all a question of giving them a better vision to get there. And if you get the smelly end of the stick in the deal. That's a sacrifice im willing to have you make
Mcarthy Mar 16th 2009 11:28AM
To Fed:
You should read my post, i for one think that if you signed up to be an officer of GL you get what you asked for, and im not going to basiclly Diefy tou. If there is a guild that is unresponsive to my concerns then i'm perfectly happy to undermine it from within and grab the people who are willing to move on to a better guild.
Mordiss Mar 16th 2009 11:30AM
I'm an officer in a pretty successful guild. I'm sort of the "morale" officer which is the one who handles most of the drama, explains why we made decisions we did, and hears complaints. A few suggestions for non-officers who have disagreements or ideas they want heard are these.
A) Don't use gchat to qq- Complaining in gchat brings out all the whiney players like nothing else will. No officer wants people ganging up on him and some players just resent the fact they aren't in leadership positions and will do that every chance they get. Bring it to me in a tell or a mail.
B) Have a solution- Don't have a 10 page qq session. You're going to be taken much more seriously if you have an answer to your problem. Think it through and make sure it's something that's fair for everyone. If it's only going to benefit you or one or two people, it's a sure bet it won't happen. Think about what you would do if you were in the position of the officer faced with the same choice.
C) Don't be a hypocrite- If you miss every raid, always dc during progression wipes, never run a heroic to help undergeared players out and never put a single thing in the gbank, then you don't care about the guild. Officers aren't going to spend energy worrying about what you think. Do your part first then people will take you seriously.
D) Be reasonable- If you don't get your way, don't throw a huge fit. As long as everything was explained to you and there's solid reasoning behind it, move on. Giving an ultimatum will almost assure that you will be guildless in the next few minutes. Odds are if you came to the officer in a fair and intelligent way he's going to listen to you more closely on other issues. Especially if you show yourself to be a reasonable person who's got the guilds best interest at heart.
Obviously these will only work in a guild with good officers. If you are in a situation with a bunch of leaders who horde loot and talk down to people, move on to a guild that's going to go somewhere.
Rihlsul Mar 16th 2009 3:10PM
A member that follows this advice is the sort of person I go to as a 'sanity check' as a GL, even if they're not an officer.
If you want to influence your guild, learn the above and live it like a holy doctrine.
Fhraelaok Mar 16th 2009 11:45AM
Yes, I completely agree! I cannot tell you how often my members complain about myself as a guild leader or my officers about things not going right. I always try to point out to them how they are always laughing in vent and lol'ing in chat, downing all the bosses, and getting gear. I really don't see what's wrong but they always find something to complain about when they don't get every little thing they want. Something I want everyone to really think about is how Officers and Guild-Leaders alike spend a lot of time and money on making a guild successful while still trying to enjoy the guild. There's a heap of responsibility and drama we must deal with on a daily basis. A guild requires good officers a good guild-leader AND good members. I'm not talkin about members who can raid or know their class like the back of their hand. I mean members who are loyal and willing to have fun and be understanding. Raiding is one thing, friendship and compassion is another, and very important in making a guild successful. My guild has been around nearly 6 years on about 4 different MMO's and thrives thanks to everyone that inhabits Dragons of Abyss. So thank you to everyone with us and everyone who's put that time in! And thank you for bringing up this important topic!
Fhraelaok Mar 16th 2009 11:51AM
To Mordiss --
I also agree with your points. Again, from experience I can say it's true. When you don't show to things or donate or help out at all then expect everyone to drop things for you or to go out of their way for you, it's bound to not happen. Same with ranting on without a solution and just constantly complaining. Ultimatums are usually going to result in the 'second' option. "Give me a rank up or I'll leave the guild" Yes well there was your door, guess you'll be using it. Remember a guild is basically like the Office! Approach the officers like your supervisors and bosses. You do it in an intelligent way, a calm way, and always have something to back your decisions and thoughts. :)
Pope Jamal Mar 16th 2009 11:55AM
Q: WoW Insider? I don't like something about my guild. How should I try to go about trying to change it?
A: You suck! STFU! GTFO! If you don't like how things are going, you're broken! Why do you hate progress?
P.S. - Don't vote either. Voting is for losers!
It's good to see the good ol' train is still chug-chug-chugging along here at WI...Bad advice FTW!!!