Speaking up for what's right
This is a pretty insightful thread, from all sides, on what the forums and customer feedback are really for. Rekker on Detheroc makes a good point, and that is that while people will complain about anything, almost no one speaks up when things are working right. We talked a little bit about this on the podcast this past week: are Blizzard's decisions based on a player base that never seems to be happy, no matter what you throw at them, or on some arbitrary design guidelines that Blizzard has stuck with from the beginning? Ghostcrawler, as you might expect, says it's a little bit of both. Blizzard doesn't just do what players say -- they consider player feedback and then make decisions from there. But at the same time, they can't ignore what players say, either. GC agrees that the forums are not the best sample of feedback, for the same reasons that Rekker gives: players go there because something is bothering them and they want it changed, not usually because they really love something in the game and want it to stay the same.
Of course, forums are not the only form of feedback from the community, and there are many places Blizzard can get feedback about things in the game that players like (ahem). But just like Blizzard does, whenever you look at the forums, you have to realize that you're looking at just a slice of the feedback. People don't make QQ posts about the stuff they appreciate and like having in the game.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Odds and ends, Buffs, Forums






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
lowangel Mar 16th 2009 6:16PM
Makes perfect sense, can't make everyone happy all of the time....
just...
Don't NERF ME BRO!!!!!
Posi Mar 16th 2009 8:08PM
Yeah right! For every complaint post, there's 4 or 5 posts from Blizzard fanboi's claiming the complainer is a whiney QQ'er who need to L2P.
Ugkul Mar 16th 2009 6:29PM
It's the internet; where whining is standard.
darthginger Mar 16th 2009 6:30PM
how many people can honestly say they've ever phoned up a customer service number and thanked them? lol
yes blizzard should be thanked for there hard work. but at the same time, we are paying customers and we do need to feel appreciated back just as much.
also with the offical forums if anyone does post anything positive they are usually jumped on by trolls as blizz fanboys etc. so its never going to be equal sided arguements. thats why blizzard use other sites, ie, this, world of raids etc. to get a fairer representation of what its players think.
RetPallyJil Mar 16th 2009 6:37PM
I have! I have filled out tickets reading:
"No problem, just a compliment ..."
The Elitist Jerk Mar 16th 2009 6:31PM
The problem is that GC sometimes says completely asinine bullshit only to show his lack of understanding of the game.
Now, if I were in his shoes, I'd dedicate the several first MONTHS of my employment at Blizzard to read every single line of code of WoW source, read every single documentation page and speak with the former designers how shit used to roll back when I wasn't there.
Then I wouldn't make idiotic promises only to take them away and return them in a buggy unusable state. Previews are nice but make sure you can deliver.
Then I wouldn't say retarded bullshit like "rets don't get mana from SA on patchwerk".
Then I wouldn't break an entire talent tree (even after player feedback which stated it's useless) just to show that my numbers are superior to whatever toy I gave my unpaid beta testers to play with.
I've no idea how GC got his Ph.D because sometimes he spews such retarded bullshit I can't believe he has a tiny grasp on WoW mechanics to begin with.
BuzzDX Mar 16th 2009 6:52PM
I look at people like you and laugh. If you think you can do a better job, then go apply at Blizzard for GC's job. Generally, people are hired into a position at a company because they have some form of previous experience.
Also, in those "several" months you mention, you'd be wasting a lot of time that would be put to better use in making the game more balanced/better and developing future content.
Judging by the content and overall language of your comment, it seems like GC may not be the only person suffering from diarrhea of the mouth.
The Elitist Jerk Mar 16th 2009 7:15PM
Laugh all you like, I couldn't care less. My point remains. When a developer exhibits negative knowledge in aspects of the game he designs, that is the beginning of the decline of the game.
Ugkul Mar 16th 2009 7:54PM
Like you could make sense of every line of code.
Gosh you whine more than a bunch of grandmothers.
Posi Mar 16th 2009 8:09PM
See.... point made. It happens here too. One person complains and 5 fanboi's post saying the Ghostcrawler is an uber god. It makes me sick.
Kakistocracy Mar 16th 2009 9:44PM
You, sir, give elitists a bad name.
Next time, try to support your claims, it makes for more interesting reading.
bundee Mar 16th 2009 6:49PM
While I hate the tired argument "we're paying customers" it really does boil down to that. Nobody calls up Konami to tell them how bad ass the new Metal Gear Solid is. Your continued patronage of their product is a clear indication that you are satisfied with the job they're doing. If they're going to go fish for compliments now, I'll start dishing them out as soon as that membership fee goes away.
Purrenen Mar 16th 2009 7:03PM
LOL@ Elitist, the fail in that post could be smelt so far away.
The company made a good game, most if not all of the changes they have made to the game over the last few years have been for the best. Some, I don't agree with but whatever, I moved on.
Some people don't.
tagashi Mar 16th 2009 7:22PM
What I would really like is for Blizzard employees to show just a TINY bit of respect and professionalism toward the player base when responding to forum posts. Yes, I know a lot of the posts are mean or insulting. There is a SUPER simple explanation for that. DELETE them from the forums or just ignore it. A lot of the time, the responding blue makes a fail attempt at a clever insult and adds a bad ASCII art graphic of /facepalm or something equally bad. By responding to the negative poster, you are only validating him/her and creating a conflict situation. Almost everyone at Blizzard who deals with players directly severely needs customer service training.
TyKell Mar 16th 2009 7:42PM
What is WoW's current level of users? 10/11 million? Is it silly to assume that many people are happy with the game? Surely someone wouldn't pay for a product that consistently made them unhappy would they? Or am I just being naive?
Noscy Mar 16th 2009 7:43PM
Elitist is one of those kind, that complain about everything, yet fail to offer any sort of solution. Yet your complaint is ONLY about Spiritual Attunement (if your Ret and taking damage from Patchwerk then there is something wrong).
You fail to notice the sweeping changes to the Ret tree during the expansion, which now makes it a viable addition to a raid group.
GC is the face of the Dev team, and is subsequently the verbal battering ram of the player base. Yes, they do get it wrong from time to time, but when do you hear when they get it right?
Never once have they shifted the blame of getting it wrong, they attribute nerfs as failures on their part. Its all apart of balancing the class, not punishing it. (Take Titan's Grip for example, yes I am cut about the nerf, but life goes on)
With 10 Classes, 30 specs, environment encounters and PVP encounters. I strongly doubt that Elitist in his infinite wisdom can do a better than the good job GC and his team does.
Halokon Mar 17th 2009 2:08AM
...Seal of Blood/Martyr.
Highest DPS seal, currently has recoil damage.
Patchwerk = DPS race...
You, and GC, need to learn what ret does.
Noscy Mar 17th 2009 7:38PM
Please enlighten me.
Talking in a raid standpoint, but forgive me for my ignorance, as it stands isn't mana a none issue for ret spec with all the typical mana regen mechanics provided by other classes?
Using arbitrary numbers.
Seal of Blood/Martyr hits target for 1000
Damage taken from SoB/M 333
Heal from Flash heal 333 (2000 over heal)
Mana returned from Spiritual Attunement 33
Seal of Blood/Martyr Crits the target for 15000
Damage taken from SoB/M 5000
Heal from Holy light crits for 5000 (11000 over heal)
Mana returned from Spiritual Attunement 500
So ret pali's tend to benefit from Spiritual Attunement, when they crit from SoB/M and subsequently get healed for the damage they just inflicted on themselves. Maybe in 3.0.9 the encounters can be be forgiving on mana for healers. I think Uldar will be not be merciful to those who spend their health points for dps, especially during AoE encounters. (how often do Shadow Priests use Shadow Word: Death mid boss fight? I know I don't)
Also have you thought of the flow on effect of self inflicted damage has on healers?
Healers having to spend mana to heal the pali who invariable self inflicted his or her own damage, in order to regen mana sounds stupid to say the least.
Secondly, copy you character to the PTR and test it, that's what its their for. And if it there is an issue like your predicting Holy and Ret should be compensated for the change.
Suggestions of buffing Judgment of the Wise, which returns x% of mana for damage dealt maybe a viable option.
As for Patchwerk I would be surprised to see mana returned from Spiritual Attunement duo to damage taken from SoB/M top more than 7% of total mana regen, although I'll have to check that to confirm. AoE fights may prove otherwise.
And yes I don't play a Ret, but a little research and varying opinions help.
nieboh Mar 16th 2009 8:10PM
There are lots of things about World of Warcraft that I absolutely love. I show my affection by continuing to pay $15/month for years.
However I suppose I am a bit paranoid but I would never consider going out of my way to thank a developer for a change I really liked. I'm afraid they will see my praise and think "someone liked this so much they took the time to tell us about it. maybe we made it too powerful. break out the nerfing hammer of doom."
Notatroll Mar 16th 2009 11:09PM
My thoughts exactly Nieboh.
Also I've often wanted to throw in some positive feedback on forums but just didn't feel like being trolled to the ground while wiser and more elite minds than mine explain loudly that I am in fact a noob and trot out pages of theorycrafting to prove that in fact I am actually not having fun at all.