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All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsBreakfast Topic: What is WoW's biggest mistake?
by Zach Yonzon 
Mar 25th 2009 at 8:00AM
That said, not everything's perfect. I haven't played Arenas in quite a while, and apparently a lot of people haven't been queuing up, either. I do enjoy all the Battlegrounds, and I definitely try to get my daily (or several times daily) dose of Wintergrasp. But Wintergrasp still lags like a poor version of a Ray Harryhausen movie. As much as Blizzard has gotten a lot of things right in Wrath, I'm sure a lot of people feel that they've gotten things wrong, too. In fact, some of the things I like might be the exact same things some people don't like.
So far, what do you think is WoW's biggest mistake? Do you think opening up raiding to more people was bad? I know a lot of you will yell 'Arenas' at the top of their cyberspatial lungs. Were Death Knights a mistake? Frankly, I can't think of anything truly egregious -- I'm having a lot of fun like I mentioned -- but maybe some of you feel otherwise. Where has Blizzard taken a misstep? What direction do you think is wrong or would be wrong for the game?
Filed under: Breakfast Topics
Reader Comments (Page 13 of 13)
Rick Mar 25th 2009 5:21PM
The largest mistake they made was no new 25 man multiple boss dungeon. In BC we had SC and TK to keep us busy until BT came out. I do not understand if they knew that they had made the new content easier compared BC raids. That they would have had another raid with the release of the expansion. Now all you have are guilds that are dead 5 to 6 days of the week since they have no other content to participate in.
Come 3.1 you will have about 2 weeks of great attendance to raids then you will see the qq post about how people have to rebuild there raiding roster due to the fact that all the old people have gotten use to logging in only 1 or 2 days a week.
People joke around how these games are like a drug but it is closer to the truth than most people think.
Sparta Mar 25th 2009 5:27PM
PvE Mistakes:
Requiring 40/25/20 people to see end game content for almost 4 years time: Fail
Homogen of Classes: Fail
PvP Mistakes:
Arena: Epic Fail
Lastly, adding a DK class into the mix in which obviously the majority of the player base would flock to = Epic Fail
Common sense on most of these.
Delegirous Mar 25th 2009 5:37PM
I can sum up Blizzard's single biggest mistake with WoW, and it hasnt changed since I have been playing.
Blizzard fights fires with flamethrowers.
It baffles me Blizzard ever expects to reach balance when every patch has 15 different changes to every class. I mean when setting up an experiment, do you change every variable and parameter between trials? No, you make small, singular, methodical changes... one at a time.
Stalwart Mar 25th 2009 5:35PM
Games to fucking easy now. What kind of progression feeling do have nowadays? Before wotlk it was a hard boss you had to kill.
Nowadays its just do the same loot pinata like every night + his adds for some achievment (and loot that no one will notice anyway since it doesnt actually look different).
Too much easy contend, ppl are through with it since months now and all we get is ONE new raid dungeon. oh wow, im so excited to clear it in 3-5 days like naxx took on the first week.
Hagu Mar 25th 2009 5:46PM
One can make an argument that the a major mistake was adding vehicles - November was so painful debugging them for Blizzard. Not that they work all the time now. I intend to never do Occ, EoE or Ulduar.
But I would have to say the biggest mistake os the way they relentlessly change classes. It is bad enough that they are homogenizing the classes. So I am not supposed to care about specific spells or class differences? Especially since they are going to change every week or two? The problem is that Blizzard succeeded so well that I also now no longer care about my toons. I have spent several thousand hours on them. But why? So some random developer can change them significantly? For some obscure reason? On one hand, yes I could play the changed toons/mechanics. OTOH, it is a game and it sure seems to me like a vendor is just doing what it wants, regardless of what the customer wants.
Why bother working hard getting a toon to 80 and getting it geared?
For everything there is a season and I think WoW has peaked and started declining.
Vengal Mar 25th 2009 6:41PM
Well, I agree with a lot of the other posts about the mistake of trying to balance classes around the Arena at the expense of everything else.
Blizzard has said they hoped to be the one who made the game that was the "WoW Killer" and they may have done just that with the Arena.
redmatrix Mar 26th 2009 1:58PM
oh thats an easy one....Ghostcrawler and HORDE!
But seriously,
PVP
Nerfing (CLASS BALANCING)
Lore
How certain zones are left empty. Like Ashzara.
Revisit old items for new instances like in Tanaris ULDUM, open up a new raid instance on saving the Fortress in Menethal Bay um Grim Batol. Also another fortress in Ashzara is the wooden big gates in the north eastern part. Content is there just for them to hire more people and make more content and keep us happy
DrowNoble Mar 25th 2009 11:08PM
First failure is the lack of armor model variety. Line up a holy pally, a blood dk and a prot war in a row and their armor all looks alike. This is simple laziness on Blizzard's part. I am glad we don't have the xmas colors of BC gear, but not having every blue-quality plate shoulder look like every other one would be nice too.
Wintergrasp was a great concept implimented poorly. The zone is simply not designed well. From holes in the inner walls enemy players and demos can get through to towers at the other end of the zone that have to be taken out. There is another game that does seige warfare far better and Blizzard needs to check their ideas out and modify them for WoW.
Homoginizing the classes is a Very Bad Idea. In a game that has pvp, raiding and pve it is NOT POSSIBLE to balance classes. Period. They need to pick a focus (pvp, pve, raiding) and say "we are balancing classes around" whatever. Each class should have a distinct flavor and pro/con about it.
Kanuris Mar 26th 2009 2:07AM
While i could rile on about many issues, i view PvP as a giant multitude of screw-ups.
1) Earning better gear for PvPing by doing a lot of PvP is counter-productive. You'll have a terrible time in crappy gear and you'll suddenly become awesome not because you got better, but because you played a lot.
2) Not seperating the PvP and PvE game. Too many balance issues has gimped one side in favour of the other at different stages. There should be a seperate gear/talent setup for when you enter a BG. World PvP could keep the PvE setup.
3) World PvP. It's only for ganking and griefing. You never get a truely fair matchup, it's just top level Douchebags swooping down from the air on there flying mounts and unleashing doom in your unsuspecting face. Theres a good reason my RL mate transferred to the PvE server i'm on.
4) Population imbalances in Battlegrounds. On my battlegroup at least, Horde in Alterac Valley varies between 10 - 15. Alliance always have 40. Everyone would rather rate for a full matchup.
5) Why can't they dumped a few pre-set bits of gear for PvPing? You can balance classes all you want but a fully Naxx 25 gear Ret Pally with betrayer of humanity is still going to rearrange the face of someone who just dinged.
Usdom Mar 26th 2009 2:15AM
Blizzard has been making many, many mistakes all following the same trend. They are making every class just like every other class there is no "Best dps class" no "Best melee dps class" no "Best tank healing" class, not even a "Best tanking" class.
I recall back in the day when people actually *gasp* played a class because the class did something really well!! Now no one does ANYTHING really well. Everyone is mediocre at best.
Blizzard's single greatest sin is the misconception that balance=equality. When balance should actually be some classes are really good at dps but lack survivability or some classes survive like roaches but don't have DPS. When blizzard allowed people to make all classes moderatly survivable and all classes have good dps but not amazing they opened the flood gates for the "Good enough" players. Players who have 9 alts and all of them are "Good enough" to be a warm body in a spot in the raid but none of them are EXCELLENT none of them are QUALITY. So we have a bunch of half ass players playing and those of us who actually strive to be good at the ONE SPECIFIC thing our class should do, get the shaft and have to pull a lot of extra weight to make up for these weekend warriors who don't really have a clue how to play their class.
Hell, just this morning a fury warrior spammed party chat with WHY DID YOU ROLL ON THAT?!!!
He was upset that my prot paladin needed a plate chest with stamina and strength. He said paladins don't need strength everyone knows they need spellpower.
/facedesk
I have met so many people who have 80's and still have NO CLUE how to play their class. So what are they doing? ROLLING A NEW ONE THEY CAN $%#@% UP! Blizzard has made it far to easy and far to universal.
Usdom Mar 26th 2009 2:30AM
Someone in the previous posts was talking about how easy it is taking away the sense of accomplishment. That is so true. I hadn't had that in so long I rolled a prot pally. The most satisfying experience I have had in wow in a long, long time, is soloing instances.
Just tonight on my 40 paladin I soloed RFD and made it all the way up to the last boss only to die at the corner just before you turn to see him where all those mobs are gathered because I ran out of health pots. I literally yelled NOOO!!! when I died.
I was pissed, but you know, then I laughed because I had so much fun overcoming the mobs and bosses to get to the end at this point I won't mind at all doing it again tomorrow. Maybe I'll get another level in an hour like I did tonight.
Priesty Mar 26th 2009 2:42AM
I think i might be one of those "casual" players that Blizz made raids more accessible for. I'll never grind 5k for an epic flyer. I'll never level fishing. and in BC I never had a chance in hell of getting past Kara. But somehow now I'm in full T7 and have H-Naxx25 on farm - and I'm barely trying. I agree with most of what has been said here, but for me: the game has gotten boring. The design is good, quests are fun, Northrend is awesome...but IMO, they've managed to take the skill out of the higher levels of the game.
I have instance leveled several toons to 70 and beyond. I remember not too long ago there used to be strategy involved in running an instance. I can't remember the last time I saw a rogue sap a mob to make a pull easier. Nobody bothers any more. I used to work hard to know my class and be good at my role. Now I can't seem to find anything in the end game I can't sleepwalk through. The game should depend on more than just my stats - how I play my class should count for something. If you make the game too easy, it's fun for a while - but it not only robs us of the challenge, but robs us of the chance to develop real skills.
The game used to be about skill and accomplishment and that was fun for me - even if a lot of it was ultimately beyond my reach. Now I don't know what it's supposed to be about other than a massive time sink or an achievement/rep/loot race. If I don' t have anything meaningful to aspire to - why play?
jfofla Mar 26th 2009 4:23AM
I am very happy with everything in Lich King...well there is one thing I hate
people who call it ezmode
Sleepy Mar 26th 2009 10:30AM
The only people who dont think its ez-mode are people that havent played the game for a long time. WoW is nothing like the game it was when I was admittedly addicted to it all of pre-BC.
Its the same story with alot of games, hell its the same way with most movies that have sequels its never as good as the first one and do nothing but get worse.
I will say there are some very impressive things that were done in Wrath but we all have to remember that Blizz is about the almighty dollar especially now and they things are designed is for newer players which is why so many old schoolers have left.
Its tiring having to constantly relearn your class because they cant get it right and leave things alone. Especially when they adjust talents etc etc because their itemization is so poorly thought out for when they release new content.
Sarabande Mar 26th 2009 9:37AM
I'll include things that started with BC and continued and also things that were brought in with Wrath. Here are lists of both things that I thought were Mistakes and those things that I think work.
Things that I think were mistakes:
- I think they did a poor job on many of the Crafting Professions. There just aren't the quality of crafted items available as in BC, except JC. I know - they don't want to REQUIRE it but when people start dropping tailoring (which they had worked hard to skill up) to take up JC, then it seems there are professions people feel they "need." Just give each profession some worthy unique benefits so that no one feels like they have a worthless profession. And the BoP items that we got in the past was our reward for all of the time we took farming or gold we spent on mats (not to mention on all the training and buying recipes). They really need to give some crafters reasons to keep their professions. (Umm . .. attack power buff to cloak for tailors-only???? That's probably not going to do it).
- Lowering or removing attunement. We've had too many people reach 80 and think they should run Heroics right away in mostly greens and a few blues. I also saw that problem when in BC they lowered the requirement to get keys from Revered with factions to Honored. In wrath, you need to do some long quest chains to start up on Dailies and yet have no requirement to enter Naxxramas except to be lvl. 80.
- Vehicle missions that are either glitchy or hard to see because the vehicle takes up the whole screen.
- Homoginization of classes and specs (and their gears). Each class and spec should feel unique and have things that no one else can provide. Maybe create raid encounters that might be EASIER with the buffs but not necessary. That would really be a way to make "Bring the Player, Not the Class" instead of giving too many people the same abilities and the need for same stats. (Such as requiring mages to take Spirit, where it wasn't so important before). I think making each class MORE of what they are, and making it more fun and viable for them to do what they were meant to do would make every class more fun to play (and make people want to play different classes NOT to just avoid nerfs to their mains but because they are so different enough to be intriguing).
- Making too many things too easy for new players. Maybe they can make it easier to level for people who already have a lvl. 70 or 80, but still make it so that it takes effort to get there for a new player, so that they'll have more time to learn the game and learn their class. (I think Heirloom items are one of the things that help in this). Though I think certain changes to make instance running less painful for lowbies would be good. (such as those implemented with BC).
Things that Work :
- Beautiful environments and music.
- Starting with BC, making it easier to get into instances and shorter distance from Summoning Stone to Instance entrance. Also, shorter Instances, which make them easier to do for people with limited play time.
- Interesting story lines in quests.
- Fun and beautiful city in Dalaran (though, OK - laggy) with many mail boxes and two banks.
- Tabard system lets you level up reps by running whatever instances you enjoyed or that had drops you wanted.
- Daily quests to earn gold. (I especially liked the way Qual Danas was set up so that you could grab quests all in the same general area and get them done quickly, and in such a lovely environment too - AND pick up rep items for factions as well). I wish there were dailies for lower levels that would award gold but no XP so that people who suddenly realized they need gold for their mounts would have a way to earn some.
- Some of the achievements such as those that make you want to go back and work on old quests or instances. I also like the ones for cooking, exploring, fishing, etc. That allows you to get recognized for things in game that you really enjoy doing but may not be apparent by just looking at your gear or something.
- The variety of buff foods available, all with Stam. so you don't have to choose betw. stam and other stats. (But I think the spice-less Northrend foods should be consumable by people lower than lvl 70, maybe lvl. 65 while the ones requiring spices should be for lvl. 70 and above).
Seaneous Mar 26th 2009 10:44AM
This is my second post in this thread. I'm glad the overwelming population of this all feel the same. PVP and making the game to easy to raid and do heroics has killed Wrath. Attunments were in place for a good reason, sad to see them go. Hitting 80 and going straight into Naxx, stupid. Remember how hard you worked to get into Kara? You did tht for build the skill NEEDED in Kara.
To the posted that said he thinks he is one of the casual players Blizzard was looking at for the way the game is now, and never made it past Kara in BC, but is now on farm in Naxx 25 and thinks the game is boring. EXACTLY our point here!!! Even the ones the changes were "made" for hate the game now!! Come on Blizzard!!
To the few that have posted were all crying and are elitests, that above post should be read again by all of you, and the fact that what, 10 people agree with you and over 200 all feel the same way should tell you something.
I have played this game since very early Vanilla wow in beta, leveled to 60, the game came out, level to 60 and raided 3-5 days a week for nearly 5 years counting the beta time. My account has been closed for going on the 3rd week now, and people like me leaving should worry Blizzard if they care at all about this game. We are the ones that have made the game what it is today for you Blizzard. We are the ones that attract so many new people to the game and are making you the billions of $$$ every year. To kill the game the way you have is an insult and a slap in the face to the people that got you to this point. Not even following up pn why we left the game with a simple email or phone call questionaire is also a mistake. The fact that you dont allow us to post in the official forums tells me you know your screwing up and keep inactive players from posting would prove that.
I just hope the next gen mmo is a true upgrade to WOW and something those of us tht left wont have to suffer from a game thats just more of the same with group of classes that all play the same and have nothing to stand out over others like the current build of WOW has now become.
Good luck, I see more leaving then joining now. I would love to see the TRUE numbers on the exodus VS new accounts.
hp1 Mar 26th 2009 3:23PM
I miss CC the most. I miss the strategizing that was required for many TBC heroics and raids.
"No sheep or trap." "Well, we have seduce, fear and sap." "Can't sap undead." "The healer can shackle." Etcetera.
I miss how the cc requirements and the variations between classes made repetitious heroic badge farming an ever-changing unique adventure. And I miss how running with a really overgeared group would make most of the cc unnecessary in a truly gratifying way.
We have hard-modes now for variety, but it merely comes down to throughput -- how much dps, threat and healing can you put out -- no thinking or class proficiency required.