Encrypted Text: Rogue defenses need to lose the RNG
Every Wednesday, Chase Christian of Encrypted Text invites you to enter the world of shadows, as we explore the secrets and mechanics of the Rogue class. This week, we discuss why random chance shouldn't have a place in Rogue defenses.As a member of the Rogue community, I do my best to stay abreast of the different topics of discussion. Every true Rogue's goal is to see the class excel in every area we attempt to conquer. By melding our collective brain power, we can come up with solutions for some of the problems and challenges facing us today.
Two concepts that I've seen discussed recently by both Aldriana (of Elitist Jerks / theorycrafting fame) and Akrios (of roguerogue.com) is the idea of skill, and our relationship with it. I define skill as the ability of a player to rapidly react to incoming stimuli, such as watching your opponents' cast bars. Skill is our ability to counter unknown actions quickly. However, it seems like it has been taking a back seat to RNG in WotLK so far.
Where skill comes into play:
It's widely agreed that the Rogue class has the highest skill cap of any in WoW. By skill cap, I'm referring to the idea that the level of skill required to master our assassination and stealth techniques takes more effort than any other class. It's important to note that this does not mean that Rogues are more skilled, or that other classes require less skill. My statement is simply that it takes more skill to completely master every facet of Rogue play.
While we can speculate on who takes the least skill, I began examining why the ninja class requires so much effort to play. I came up with the answer: tons of spells. We've got so many skills and abilities that can be used both offensively and defensively that are all necessary on a moment's notice. I have about 40 spells all key bound for instant access. Each of these have a specific purpose, and typically a cooldown attached.
While our ability to evade damage has been part of our class' definition, it has reached the point where we can no longer be balanced around the idea of using our cooldowns to survive. It forces Rogues to pick up Preparation in nearly every PvP environment, and cripples us any time a mistake is made. Our survivability depends on Dismantle and Evasion versus physical classes, both of which are lackluster in this world of weapon chains and dodge rating rebalancing. Cloak of Shadows provides a 6 second window where RNG can still ruin our day, and is our only true defense against a caster.
Trying to optimize our cooldowns to survive a fight becomes the area where Rogues are able to truly showcase their skill. The most oft-mentioned example, vanishing a death coil, has become an art form in and of itself. However, the fact remain that outside of long-duration cooldowns used in quick succession, our survivability is the lowest amongst any of the classes. With so many classes playing the hybrid role, we are simply unable to react to their assaults.
Why ret paladins, hunters, and DKs need to be rethought:
Against a warrior, one would never consider using Cloak of Shadows. It provides no benefits (well, it will once we get this Glyph) currently and is a waste of time and a valuable ability. However, when fighting a paladin, or a death knight, or even a feral druid, using Cloak of Shadows becomes a key ability. This means that we'll be using both Evasion and Cloak of Shadows against a single enemy, due to their ability to assault us on multiple fronts. While some Paladin attacks are holy damage, they cannot be cloaked, and some of their attacks can't be dodged. This also translates to the Death Knight, who is capable of dealing significant damage against us regardless of which cooldowns we have active.
Rogues are still able to defeat our traditional opponents. Most casters, and many physical damage dealers will fall when ambushed from stealth. Our weakness is against classes who break the barrier of physical versus magic: truly the overpowered battle-mages of Stratholme past. Hunters have found themselves in a similar role, dealing a mix of magical and physical damage, at a distance, no less.
Pure vs hybrid:
Most of us consider the split between pure and hybrid classes to be those with a single role (DPS) and those capable of multiple roles. I would like to change this perception (for the purposes of this article) to describe those classes capable of only a single type of damage, versus those who wield magic and physical damage simultaneously. This explains the reason that Hunters, Death Knights, and Paladins currently top the SK-100 and many other brackets.
I once wondered why I seemed to be getting killed so much quicker in arena matches than in seasons past. While obviously the scale of burst vs survivability has tipped in the favor of burst, it seems that Rogues are unable to survive an assault on any front. Evasion reduces our frontal melee incoming damage by 50%, in a perfect world. However, the fact that we are still able to be stunned during evasion, and that its effects are simply negated by using spells, have nerfed its potential greatly.
Rogue spells that "don't" work:
Other classes have spells that work every time. Ice Barrier always absorbs X damage. Icebound Fortitude makes you 100% immune to stuns and you take X% less damage. Evasion may or may not reduce the amount of damage you take, and may or may not work based on who you are fighting. Ice Block always encases the mage in a block of invulnerable ice. Divine Shield always protects the paladin from all damage. Vanish occasionally removes the Rogue from sight, and is again easily countered depending on who you are playing against. Nearly every class possesses a damage-over-time effect of some kind, and an AoE as well.
Having RNG present in the majority of our defensive abilities has hurt the class as a whole. Our inability to perform consistently has caused us to be dropped for those classes capable of repeating their performance, exactly the same, every time. Warriors used to be valued for their random RNG mace stuns, and now Rogues are undervalued for when RNG trumps their reactions.
Conclusion:
With a class defined by flashy cooldown usage and evading damage instead of mitigating it, we need more reliability in our abilities if we are going to be able to compete in the future. The new Glyph of Cloak of Shadows is a step in the right direction, adding some reliable damage reduction on demand. However, it's far too little against a world where every class has better defenses. I am hoping that Cloak of Shadows will be modified to be 100% spell immunity, and that Evasion will provide something more akin to Deflection's bonuses. I am thinking along the lines of 100% physical avoidance but 50% physical damage reduction. We'll see if we're able to overcome these obstacles come 3.1, but unless Rogues are able to find more consistent options for survival, I doubt we'll see our lifespan increase significantly.
Filed under: Rogue, Analysis / Opinion, (Rogue) Encrypted Text
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Reader Comments (Page 5 of 8)
Odonthe1st Mar 25th 2009 2:30PM
I guess I shouldn't even comment since I only have a 55 rogue but I don't think rogues are the hardest class to master. I have an 80 hunter and druid. Both are a mix of magical and physical abilities like you said that must be used correctly against every different class or you get owned. Add pet talents and trying to stay at range or changing forms and healing vs dps to that. Rogues need melee range and a rotation for each class, pretty straight forward I think. And kinda boring, but again mine's only 55. Getting to melee range (running straight at something) is way easier then strafing and using cooldowns and CC to stay out of it imho. Rouges get to initiate the combat 90% of the time so they get time to decide on their strat for the class they are going for. Not so with their target. By the time I'm out of the stunlock any good rogue will have you in I'm at 50% health-any mistake means the rogue wins. But I hear that from every class about every situation: "If I make one mistake, I'm done."
But then there's RNG. Maybe more of a difficulty for rogues. I don't like the whole design of combat for rogues, the combo points, that's why mine's at lvl 55. Sometimes you get 1 point, sometimes 2, then you spam a finishing move until you finally have the energy and hope it doesn't miss or you hope for a crit. Crits as RNG are cool but I feel too dependent on dice rolls on my rogue or cat druid.
Candina@WH Mar 25th 2009 2:28PM
One more Rogue bash and then I am through.
"Rogues are still able to defeat our traditional opponents. Most casters, and many physical damage dealers will fall when ambushed from stealth.."
This is, and should be, the only time that rogues win. That is what your class is built on. If you want the ability to stand toe-to-toe, then you should lose the ability to ambush.
You will still do very well in PVE, with or without ambush.
You still do fine, not the best perhaps, but better than every clothy when up close and personal.
When you complain that you have THE LOWEST suvivabilty of ANY class, I stopped listening, as you live in a fantasy world.
Shaman, Priests, Mages all have less survivability. Mages have an 'oh shit button', and frost nova. Priests have fear, which no one fears. Shaman have... um... mail armor.
Rogues have Cloack, Vanish, Evasion, Kick, Gouge, Kidney Shot, Shadow Step......
So, to all rogues out their QQing about their survivability.. bite me.
Kemikalkadet Mar 25th 2009 2:35PM
Fury warrior here. Bet all you rogues are jealous of my survivability, mobility and defensive cooldowns.. oh wait.
Jay Mar 25th 2009 2:38PM
The problem with your long and well constructed position is that it focuses solely on a "fair" fight where the rogue isn't stealthed and getting the drop on the opponent.
In that situation rogues are unsurpassed in their ability to lock down and destroy an opponent before they are even capable of responding. Add the type of damage avoidance you are talking about and the rogue becomes a class that is impossible to beat. Which is even more ridiculous than the current issue that if you can't get the drop on others you are at a disadvantage.
Just about every class has a weakness. Mages and hunters have to keep their enemy at range to be dominant. Warriors and Paladins have to keep their quarry in melee range at all times. Rogues? They have to get the drop on their opponent or use stuns to sieze the initiative.
You willing to surrender stealth and the ability to stunlock opponents until they are dead in return for the survivability you're demanding? If not, recognize what your strength is and what your weakness is and play accordingly.
MechChef Mar 25th 2009 2:58PM
"You willing to surrender stealth and the ability to stunlock opponents until they are dead in return for the survivability you're demanding?"
Yes we are, as evidenced by a lot of us are by shelving the rogues and running a DK instead.
Neuro Mar 25th 2009 3:03PM
I think one big point that I did not see is that say we do gives rogues these "immunities". Right now, with what cooldowns they have I see rogues running in PvE gear simply because they can use their "cooldowns" to survive a burst.
Now I play a warlock and if I wear PvE gear I get popped. You want to "survive" in PvP better? Then wear more PvP gear in my opinion. Rogues running around in 500 resilence while many clothies have to run in over 800 to survive is just stupid.
I for one don't want to see something like this happen. It encourages wearing PvE gear to output more damage because you have your cooldowns to survive being hit.
Seleucius Mar 25th 2009 3:04PM
Spriest checking in. Get some perspective, Chase.
Power Word: Shield. Right, seeing as shadow and holy don't have access to the OMFGness of Disc's bubble talents, it absorbs ~3.5k damage with decent spellpower. That's what, half of an ambush? If that? Moving on.
I blow ~2200 mana to DoT you up. You cloak. I'm out a good 15-20% of my mana and just gave you a reason to vanish-ambush me anyway. Since my AoE requires that I use it on a target (Mind Sear), you simply have to move 10 yards away from your DK to not have to worry about it.
My fear is on a 24s talented CD. Not only is it wholly trinketable as it's my only CC that won't shield wall you, there's no way in hell I should last long enough to use it again. Not only that, but between CS/KS/Gouge/Blind/Kick/Garrote/Cloak, it should never hit you.
Ohlordy the 51pt talented 6s pseudomunity cloud. 6 seconds is just long enough for you to drop combat so you can stealth again, hmm?
In short, yes, rogues are fairly squishy against the 3 FotM classes. So is everyone else. And in fact, there are certain classes that still have NO CHANCE WHATSOEVER against a rogue unless the rogue is absolutely TERRIBLE.
Candina@WH Mar 25th 2009 3:08PM
Yeah, If the rogues argument is 'but I can't survive if I am caught out of stealth with my cool downs down'.
My answer is SO WHAT? No one else can either.
Kryxx Mar 25th 2009 5:20PM
LoL! I love when people just list a bunch of rogue abilities and call it a valid argument.
Sergio Mar 25th 2009 3:13PM
Ice barrier can be dispelled. Ice block and pally bubble can be mass dispelled or shattered in 3.1. If CloS was 100%, they would need to introduce some kind of counter to actually balance it.
Arkeband Mar 25th 2009 3:16PM
First of all, CloS lasts half as long as either spell you listed. Secondly, even if it were 100%, it still leaves us vulnerable to everything besides spells, so it's half as effective as either spell you listed.
adurocruor Mar 25th 2009 3:25PM
oh? ice block lasts twice as long. Not that every mage who has half a mind typically gets out of ice block immediately since ohh yeah that's right you cant do anything not even move. Id be thrilled if i got a immune to spell for 5 seconds and could still cast i think i might just bust a nut.
Adurocruor Mar 25th 2009 3:19PM
i too gave out a huge chuckle at rogues have the least survivability. I would have to say its shaman at this point, since they have zero truly effective escape spells. But can anyone name ONE class that a Mage of any spec can beat without really trying? without just learning a button sequence that eleminates their target?
Avrus Mar 25th 2009 3:25PM
I think he should have bolded and underlined the word 'amongst'. It's a key word in the sentence.
Adurocruor Mar 25th 2009 3:34PM
well.. actually the quote is "our survivability is the lowest amongst any of the classes" which means it is the lowest of any of the classes just decided not to use of twice. if it were "our survivability is AMONGST the lowest amongst/of any of the classes" i would still scoff just not as hard since yest the survivability of a rogue isnt as high as say a paladin but really only because the paladin with its immunities can also heal itself. And maybe not even since pallies have no imma catch you or get off me abilities.
Ilnara Mar 25th 2009 3:33PM
I stopped reading here : It's widely agreed that the Rogue class has the highest skill cap of any in WoW.
Try being a caster, any of them.
Melee is LOVED by the Dev's in this game, and your little "rogue"
class is the benchmark upon which most balance is centered when it comes to power inherent.
The DK came along and there went your spot on the top of the food chain.
"watching cast bars"
Sir, If I'm casting something with a cast time long enough for you to see, I'm probably already dead.
meh..
Adurocruor Mar 25th 2009 3:35PM
Thank you...
Seleucius Mar 25th 2009 3:37PM
"Sir, If I'm casting something with a cast time long enough for you to see, I'm probably already dead."
This. And I need to emphasize. This.
Avrus Mar 25th 2009 3:39PM
Any idea then why caster/DK or caster/x combos are topping the Arena charts, and not rogue/x combo?
If they're really as powerful as you suggest then why aren't we seeing a majority team combo including rogues?
adurocruor Mar 25th 2009 3:43PM
the top arena team currently in the tournament has a rogue