Encrypted Text: Rogue defenses need to lose the RNG
Every Wednesday, Chase Christian of Encrypted Text invites you to enter the world of shadows, as we explore the secrets and mechanics of the Rogue class. This week, we discuss why random chance shouldn't have a place in Rogue defenses.As a member of the Rogue community, I do my best to stay abreast of the different topics of discussion. Every true Rogue's goal is to see the class excel in every area we attempt to conquer. By melding our collective brain power, we can come up with solutions for some of the problems and challenges facing us today.
Two concepts that I've seen discussed recently by both Aldriana (of Elitist Jerks / theorycrafting fame) and Akrios (of roguerogue.com) is the idea of skill, and our relationship with it. I define skill as the ability of a player to rapidly react to incoming stimuli, such as watching your opponents' cast bars. Skill is our ability to counter unknown actions quickly. However, it seems like it has been taking a back seat to RNG in WotLK so far.
Where skill comes into play:
It's widely agreed that the Rogue class has the highest skill cap of any in WoW. By skill cap, I'm referring to the idea that the level of skill required to master our assassination and stealth techniques takes more effort than any other class. It's important to note that this does not mean that Rogues are more skilled, or that other classes require less skill. My statement is simply that it takes more skill to completely master every facet of Rogue play.
While we can speculate on who takes the least skill, I began examining why the ninja class requires so much effort to play. I came up with the answer: tons of spells. We've got so many skills and abilities that can be used both offensively and defensively that are all necessary on a moment's notice. I have about 40 spells all key bound for instant access. Each of these have a specific purpose, and typically a cooldown attached.
While our ability to evade damage has been part of our class' definition, it has reached the point where we can no longer be balanced around the idea of using our cooldowns to survive. It forces Rogues to pick up Preparation in nearly every PvP environment, and cripples us any time a mistake is made. Our survivability depends on Dismantle and Evasion versus physical classes, both of which are lackluster in this world of weapon chains and dodge rating rebalancing. Cloak of Shadows provides a 6 second window where RNG can still ruin our day, and is our only true defense against a caster.
Trying to optimize our cooldowns to survive a fight becomes the area where Rogues are able to truly showcase their skill. The most oft-mentioned example, vanishing a death coil, has become an art form in and of itself. However, the fact remain that outside of long-duration cooldowns used in quick succession, our survivability is the lowest amongst any of the classes. With so many classes playing the hybrid role, we are simply unable to react to their assaults.
Why ret paladins, hunters, and DKs need to be rethought:
Against a warrior, one would never consider using Cloak of Shadows. It provides no benefits (well, it will once we get this Glyph) currently and is a waste of time and a valuable ability. However, when fighting a paladin, or a death knight, or even a feral druid, using Cloak of Shadows becomes a key ability. This means that we'll be using both Evasion and Cloak of Shadows against a single enemy, due to their ability to assault us on multiple fronts. While some Paladin attacks are holy damage, they cannot be cloaked, and some of their attacks can't be dodged. This also translates to the Death Knight, who is capable of dealing significant damage against us regardless of which cooldowns we have active.
Rogues are still able to defeat our traditional opponents. Most casters, and many physical damage dealers will fall when ambushed from stealth. Our weakness is against classes who break the barrier of physical versus magic: truly the overpowered battle-mages of Stratholme past. Hunters have found themselves in a similar role, dealing a mix of magical and physical damage, at a distance, no less.
Pure vs hybrid:
Most of us consider the split between pure and hybrid classes to be those with a single role (DPS) and those capable of multiple roles. I would like to change this perception (for the purposes of this article) to describe those classes capable of only a single type of damage, versus those who wield magic and physical damage simultaneously. This explains the reason that Hunters, Death Knights, and Paladins currently top the SK-100 and many other brackets.
I once wondered why I seemed to be getting killed so much quicker in arena matches than in seasons past. While obviously the scale of burst vs survivability has tipped in the favor of burst, it seems that Rogues are unable to survive an assault on any front. Evasion reduces our frontal melee incoming damage by 50%, in a perfect world. However, the fact that we are still able to be stunned during evasion, and that its effects are simply negated by using spells, have nerfed its potential greatly.
Rogue spells that "don't" work:
Other classes have spells that work every time. Ice Barrier always absorbs X damage. Icebound Fortitude makes you 100% immune to stuns and you take X% less damage. Evasion may or may not reduce the amount of damage you take, and may or may not work based on who you are fighting. Ice Block always encases the mage in a block of invulnerable ice. Divine Shield always protects the paladin from all damage. Vanish occasionally removes the Rogue from sight, and is again easily countered depending on who you are playing against. Nearly every class possesses a damage-over-time effect of some kind, and an AoE as well.
Having RNG present in the majority of our defensive abilities has hurt the class as a whole. Our inability to perform consistently has caused us to be dropped for those classes capable of repeating their performance, exactly the same, every time. Warriors used to be valued for their random RNG mace stuns, and now Rogues are undervalued for when RNG trumps their reactions.
Conclusion:
With a class defined by flashy cooldown usage and evading damage instead of mitigating it, we need more reliability in our abilities if we are going to be able to compete in the future. The new Glyph of Cloak of Shadows is a step in the right direction, adding some reliable damage reduction on demand. However, it's far too little against a world where every class has better defenses. I am hoping that Cloak of Shadows will be modified to be 100% spell immunity, and that Evasion will provide something more akin to Deflection's bonuses. I am thinking along the lines of 100% physical avoidance but 50% physical damage reduction. We'll see if we're able to overcome these obstacles come 3.1, but unless Rogues are able to find more consistent options for survival, I doubt we'll see our lifespan increase significantly.
Filed under: Rogue, Analysis / Opinion, (Rogue) Encrypted Text
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Reader Comments (Page 6 of 8)
Grubba Mar 25th 2009 4:12PM
Would that be well then, the team that has a rogue with zero played games?
Find me the team with the rogue. Please.
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=15864790219&sid=1
Ilnara Mar 25th 2009 7:53PM
Not being part of the 'top team comp' for one season out of 5 hardly makes your point.
But you guys are pretty delusional, and have a rather biased view point of 'balance' considering that all balance is pretty much skewed towards Melee combat.
Since DK's the secret is out, any one that had the notion now knows for sure. 'Casting' in this game is for 'second class citizens'.
Warlocks.. They only appear because they are the best counter to the other two dominating classes in Arena right now, DK's and Pali's, not because on their own they can WTFBBQ every other class in the game.
pkrockin Mar 26th 2009 2:15PM
The reason rogues are so rare in arenas now is that rogue players, widely and traditionally, are players that want an easy win and are not skilled. Now that rogue is more in balance with other classes in terms of arena performance, there is no reason for these players to use the class. As someone had said earlier in the thread, they all left their rogues to play DKs(the new class for unskilled players that want easy victories). Rogue is not a bad class - they are just played by bad players. The class does not underperform - the class's players just want to dominate non-plate classes like they have since the game launched.
I do not intend to demean anyone that plays these classes, only to point out that if all players are of equal skill, some classes will emerge as "better," just like the character tiers of the Super Smash Bros. series. Rogues were the best, then rogues and druids. Now, it's DKs and pallies. Just accept it.
CN Mar 25th 2009 3:43PM
"Rogues are still able to defeat our traditional opponents. Most casters, and many physical damage dealers will fall when ambushed from stealth. Our weakness is against classes who break the barrier of physical versus magic: truly the overpowered battle-mages of Stratholme past. Hunters have found themselves in a similar role, dealing a mix of magical and physical damage, at a distance, no less."
So your argument is you should be able to defeat all classes? You loose out when you say you are able to defeat your traditional opponents. As a DK a GOOD Rogue is still a strong fight, with them ambushing, dealing a portion of my life, escaping and returning. If you want to stand there and beat on someone mindlessly I think you rolled the wrong class.
I feel for you guys in PvE, but PvP get real. Maybe make stunlocks talents so PvE Rogues can boost their dmg without having to fear PvX balancing.
BTW, this post reminds me of:
http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=worldofroguecraft&sourceid=navclient-ff&rlz=1B3GGGL_enUS306US307&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=rofKScHiF5jhtge3oYmoAw&sa=X&oi=video_result_group&resnum=4&ct=title#q=world+of+roguecraft&emb=0
Avrus Mar 25th 2009 3:51PM
@adurocruor said...
"the top arena team currently in the tournament has a rogue"
A single team is not a majority. If rogues were top for PvP, the path of least resistance would see the majority of teams including them.
It's already been thoroughly parsed out in another comment thread, but rogues were in the bottom 3 classes for Arena teams.
adurocruor Mar 25th 2009 4:03PM
saying your in the bottom three means your the third from the worst, meaning that there are still 2 worse off then you, so it still is safe to say that "our survivability is the lowest amongst any of the classes" is still invalid.
Avrus Mar 25th 2009 4:14PM
@adurocruor said...
"so it still is safe to say that "our survivability is the lowest amongst any of the classes" is still invalid."
I'll fix the comment for you:
Rogues are amongst the classes with the lowest survivability in Arena play.
How's that?
Grubba Mar 25th 2009 5:16PM
@Avrus
"A single team is not a majority."
Especially when the rogue on the team in question is an inactive member with zero played games.
Oriflame Mar 25th 2009 3:53PM
I'm sorry, Rogues are the class that takes the most skill to play?
I call BS.
Go back to roflpwning your way through stunlocked opponents and crying how its so hard. It would be way better writing this QQ about the most pain in the ass class in the game.
When I fight any other class I get to play the god damn game. When I fight a rogue, I get to stand around till I'm dead. I don't care how much skill it takes to pound the buttons to pull it off, you can't tell me it makes you a better player when you're opponent can't even react. Stunlock is what is broken about PVP, and rogues only have one trick.
Cry more rogues.
The author, Chase, seems to come from the perspective that Rogues should win every fight without having opposition. An encrypted text within the last few months complained that opponents very rarely die within the first stunlock. This is the kind of problem your class has? You rarely kill opponents without them being able to react? Oh it has to be the class that requires the most skill.
Worst crybaby class ever. I think you think WOTLK is broken because you can't faceroll everyone every time now.
Hate fighting DKs? Welcome to the way the rest of the classes feel when they got stuck fighting rogues for the last few years.
Also, did I mention... cry more!
AAron Mar 25th 2009 3:59PM
I think most of the commentors missed the point. If a rogue has to base its ENTIRE strategy around the ability to move in and out of combat, then it should be able to do it every time and not have to rely on the RNG to allow it. Cloak + vanish does not work 100% of the time. Vanish can bug and pretty much every class has an AoE that can knock us out of stealth. No one is saying that rogues should be able to dominate, we are only saying that the RNG should not play such a HUGE part of our success as a class, and more weight should be put on our ability to manage the use of our skills. We don't wanna stand toe-to-toe, we just are tired of being gibbed by n00bs with lucky hits.
Max Mar 25th 2009 4:03PM
^ this.
Rogues dont need buffs or nerfs, they just need cloak at 100% and vanish to work correctly.
Evasion however, is fine the way it is.
Avrus Mar 25th 2009 4:08PM
And the really sad thing -- and I'm surprised that it wasn't commented on -- is that Vanish is going to take a huge hit with 3.1 as well. Bleed effects essentially negate vanish.
JD Mar 25th 2009 4:13PM
I love how, when a rogue clicks his Vanish button fast enough to avoid a deathcoil, it is called "rogues showcasing their skill".
And, when a non-rogue clicks his AoE button fast enough to catch a rogue Vanishing, it is called getting "gibbed by n00bs with lucky hits".
AAron Mar 25th 2009 7:38PM
Its not the same thing 'cause the AoE with CoS up is being gibbed, where as vanish takes timing.
AAron Mar 25th 2009 7:47PM
Also, that wasn't aimed at people who can legitimately do that, it was aimed at the fact that any n00b can get 1/10 chance to kill a vanish, but a skilled player can predict the movements of a rogue and pull him out.
CN Mar 25th 2009 4:05PM
True, the Vanish bug has been long overlooked.
lad Mar 25th 2009 4:36PM
QQ moar
rogues are a cheap class, the only skill it takes to play it is to know when to steal the KB from other classes and how to stunlock. there L2 stunlock, cloack of skill and vanish.
rogue 101 L2P and dont QQ
Croe Mar 25th 2009 4:19PM
Rogues are useful for picking locks. Apart from that, I've never found a use for them. (My main was a rogue for a couple of years until I got fed up with my short survivability in instances.)
Rogue Mar 25th 2009 4:22PM
Discussion like what happens here is why I am glad there are places who limit who posts to the actually constructive, actually skilled people.
90% of the comments here would be laughed out of the water by everyone on arenajunkies.com. It is consensus, clearly reached, that rogues are among the least survivable class.
Sometimes I feel like the rants above are from people who don't think to equip their trinket. Anyhow, I should probably avoid this level of discussion.
Avrus Mar 25th 2009 4:25PM
@ Rogue
"Sometimes I feel like the rants above are from people who don't think to equip their trinket"
I was going to post exactly this but I figured there's no point. An arena defining ability that can be countered by a trinket (and soon bleed).