Lichborne: More emergent builds on the 3.1 PTR
The builds and changes and tweaks seem to be coming faster and more furious, but at the same time seem to have settled down to changing things in a very final and deliberate way, if that makes sense. Whether we're a week or a month from 3.1 going live though, things are likely to change a little bit.
Still, my gut tells me that most of the major tree shifts and mechanics changes are probably out there, and it's just a matter of tweaking numbers. So it may be a good chance to take a look at what newish builds are getting some buzz in the Death Knight community for being the new hotness in 3.1. In specific, let's look at a Blood Build that reacts to some of the latest changes for that tree, and a stacked Unholy build.
Blood has seen a few major changes since we last talked about it. Specifically, people have been getting antsy about a few Dancing Rune Weapon changes, namely that it only does 50% damage and that it takes more Runic Power to keep active. In addition, the permaghoul has now been placed a few tiers deeper in the Unholy Tree, making it impossible to grab for a 51-point Frost or Blood build. Now honestly, I'm not too concerned about the latter issue. Fact is, since they moved Night of the Dead up to tier 4, it's really an overall buff. After all, a permaghoul won't do you much good if he gets destroyed by a stiff breeze. The AE avoidance of Night of the Dead should make up for the loss and then some.
That said, these two factors have created the perfect excuse for a few people to try to come up with a build that keeps the permaghoul and drops the now supposedly underpowered Dancing Rune Weapon. 44/0/27 is the most promising result of that experimentation. It's nice in that it keeps most of the heart of Blood intact, with most of the major hard hitting physical talents. It skips some of the health recovery talents, but you won't really need those as much for group PvE. In addition, it also grabs a lot of the iconic stuff from the Unholy tree, both Unholy Blight and the perma-ghoul, and plays to Blood's strengths with talents such as Necrosis and Morbidity.
Preliminary reports from the PTR suggest it's at least competitive with full Unholy and Frost 2-hand DPS builds, although I haven't seen enough data to be completely sure. Still, on paper, it looks like it should work. The biggest issue with this build has to do with the fact that Death Strike has been nerfed again. Now that it's back to 60% weapon damage, there may be some argument for returning to 13 Frost for Annihilation, especially now that Black Ice buffs Shadow Damage again.
Overall, I'm almost hopeful that this build proves viable regardless. The combination of some of the best parts of Blood and Unholy looks amazing on paper, but the question remains as to whether it will stand up to extended testing.
Honestly, I expect Death Strike and Dancing Rune Weapon to be bumped back up in damage a bit, if the numbers reported by some Death Knights that put 51 Blood back to 300 DPS below other specs are true. We have a few more builds to go before the patch, I'd guess, and I think Blizzard will balance it. Still while you're considering your 51/2/18 or 51/0/20 builds, this one might end up deserving a second glance, if only for the fun of it.
Speaking of Black Ice, the fact that it buffs Shadow Damage has inspired some Unholy Death Knights to test out a 0/10/61 DPS build. It would, in theory, seem a little iffy to stack so many talent points in one tree, but it works. The new shadow damage enabled Black Ice is just one more tool in this build to push shadow damage to ludicrous levels, since Unholy does plenty of it between Scourge Strike and Unholy Blight and so on.
This build is nice in that you get almost all the cool toys of Unholy without sacrificing DPS. Improved Unholy Presence, Desecration, Wandering Plague, they're all there. Plus, Frost is finally in a position where it doesn't feel like a complete waste to spec into as a secondary tree. Runic Power Mastery and Black Ice are both incredibly useful for an Unholy DPSer who does lots of shadow damage and chugs down runic power like a frat bro on spring break in cancun chugging down cheap beer.
There is some thought that this build could eventually fall behind on scaling. Since it doesn't take Bladed Armor, which provides extra attack power which works for physical damage as well as shadow and frost damage, it's possible that as we get into more powerful gear, the damage boost from bladed armor will overtake the shadow damage boost from Black Ice. The other concern with this build is that it does miss out on Dark Convinction, which means a few fewer Wandering Plague procs. However, it's worth noting that the only real reason Unholy Death Knights need critical strike is said Wandering Plague, and when you're AEing stuff down, you'll get so many individual chances for Wandering Plague to proc that that 5% proc chance difference will slip into almost nothing.
That said, A good solid 18/2/51 build will probably still be a completely viable build in 3.1, so we'll probably see a bit of both, depending on how the final DPS totals shake out.
Closing Thoughts
As I said, We still probably have a build or two to go before 3.1 is final. I get the feeling things are about where they'll be skill and talent wise, and all that remains is a few tweaks in damage totals. We'll probably see either a buff to Death Strike and Dancing Rune Weapon or a slight nerf to Gargoyle in order to bring Blood, Frost, and Unholy all in line with each other in the DPS department. Between that and dual specs, it should be fun to see how everything shakes down when the patch goes live. We'll be working on keeping up with it here at Lichborne.
Filed under: Patches, Analysis / Opinion, Talents, Death Knight, (Death Knight) Lichborne






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Yltharion Mar 30th 2009 9:12AM
So blood and unholy should be the first choices for a dps dk after 3.1? Bleh, I've just begun to love frost. Any tip on "deep" frost build? The tree structre will shift around a lot, dunno what to keep and what to throw away.
Kassu Mar 30th 2009 10:15AM
2H frost is just as awsome as any other build...
I personally belive that you can drop blood caked blade and 1 point from epidemic. Also, with bone shield having a longer CD, its potential uptime is waaay down at the moment. BCB is like 1.5% of my total DPS and with the increased uptime on all diseases, 2 points in epidemic is a waste for unholy.
So thats 3-5 free points...
Dez Mar 30th 2009 9:27AM
Always when I refresh one last time Lichborne seems to pop up, haha X D
More frost informationz! :P I am sort of confused at this point. Should I go 2H or DW, should I tank or DPS, should I stay Frost or not, and how to spec. I played my DK from day 1 until like 2 months ago, 2H Frost DPS worked great but in the end it was just terribly boring. I thought what the heck it's worth to give DW a try, always been a DW type and been curious on how it works for DKs, anyway 2H was just a no-go anymore. DW was hard to rate honestly, it was fun but at the same time not, something seemeed weird. So I was already confused what to do or how to spec really, the 3.1 notes that kept coming didn't make it easier. I decided to put my DK on ice, that and well I was occupied in rl as well, I have to urge to play her again but now I might as well wait for 3.1. Then at least if nothing more things are how they're supposed to (for now), regarding talents/trees, glyphs and so on. Maybe I can decide what the heck to do.
While DK isn't a "hard" class I wouldn't say it's that easy either, because it's so different from the other classes.. all trees are viable for tanks/dps and pvp, which means you have so many choices available, that means more choices to make. And we got RP/runes/cooldowns to manage, diseases, death runes, and there's so many different rotation possibilities out there, just looking at the Wowhead dk forums make me dizzy.
Mindaika Mar 30th 2009 9:29AM
Not to argue with you, but BA is skipped in 0/10/61 for the opposite reason of what you state. Armor values will improve very little in Ulduar, making the value of BA essentially static. However, as gear stats improve, the +10% value of BI will be worth more.
Eisengel Mar 30th 2009 5:41PM
I tend to agree. 5/5 BA gives you 5 AP per 180 base armor (before mods like Frost Presence).
Death Coil has a 15% AP->DMG coefficient, the highest among all the DK abilities IIRC. Let's say you have 1800 AP and 18000 base armor. In this case 5/5 BA gives you:
5* (18000/180) => 5 * 100 => 500 AP
so your Death Coil goes from:
Death Coil (R5): 664.5 + (.15 * AP)
0/5 BA: 664.5 + (.15 * 1800 ) => 934.5
5/5 BA: 664.5 + (.15 * 2300 ) => 1009.5
... which is a base 75 damage increase.
Let's look at 5/5 Black Ice. It grants you an additional 10% Shadow damage. I'll presume it modifies the initial total before mods:
0/5 BA: 664.5 + (.15 * 1800 ) => 934.5
5/5 BI: 934.5 * 1.10 => 1027.95
... which is a base 93.45 increase.
In general, the conversion is:
(664.5 + (.15 * AP)) * 1.10 = 664.5 + (.15 * ( AP + (5*(armor/180))) ))
Let's set AP to 1800:
1027.95 = 664.5 + (.15 * (1800 + (5*(armor/180))) ) =>
363.5 = .15 * (1800 + (5*(armor/180)) ) =>
2434 = 1800 + (5*(armor/180)) =>
634 = 5 * (armor/180) =>
126.8 = armor/180 =>
22824 = armor
This means if you had 22824 base armor and 1800 attack power, 5/5 Black Ice and 5/5 Bladed Armor would give Death Coil the same benefit. Keep in mind that Death Coil benefits the MOST from Bladed Armor, since it has the highest attack power to damage coefficient out of all Death Knight abilities. The amount of armor you would need to boost other abilities would be even larger.
It seems that with current gear, 5/5 Black Ice, in its current incarnation, (+10% initial damage) is better than 5/5 Bladed Armor. I would hazard to guess it would also scale better, since you need a pretty large amount of armor to equal each increment of attack power.
That conversion is left as an exercise to the reader.
;^)
Dez Mar 30th 2009 9:34AM
In addition to all trees being viable for all roles and our utility, we can use 2H and DW, meele and spells. Pets if we want. And those weapon runes.
WTB tips or an easier way to decide how to manage my DK, and make choices. ^^
Axolotl Mar 30th 2009 9:58AM
I can Haz top DPS and Solid Tank in one build?
To me, it looks like Blizz would like to see more Blood-builds but are failing at it ... In usual Blizz-Phylosophy this will mean they'll nerf frost and unholy so those become less attractive ... then they'll nerf everybody else because deathknights don't do the PVE-damage they're supposed to and are getting slaughtered in PVP (unending cycle in 3 ... 2 ... 1 ... )
Urvith Mar 30th 2009 10:25AM
Um I just sorta noticed that you left frost out in the cold so to speek. I know that there are frost builds on the ptr and that their doing fairly well. Do you just not play frost much? I ask because aside from one right after a bunch of people complained about it your posts all seem frost light.
Reathren Mar 30th 2009 10:35AM
I would like to see a bit more information about frost and/or dual wield tanking/dps. I'm tanking dual wield frost now and it works fine for me, can tank any heroic raid i want. But i have no idea how to spec my tank in 3.1 with all the moving of talents. Go unholy? Go blood? Stay frost? Figure out another hybrid spec? And what about a viable dual wield dps spec?
And plz keep the 'omgwtf why r u DW tanking you nab!' to yourselves.
JALbert Mar 30th 2009 2:57PM
There is no current, viable DW DPS spec where you can't just slap on a 2H and do better. This isn't coming from someone who is anti-DW, either. I've been DW DPS before the bandwagon, but there's just no reason to do it anymore.
Also, there is no slow 1h tanking weapon seen thus far in Ulduar gear, so you're going to still need to be rocking Broken Promise mainhand if you want to DW tank.
KiraKnightly Mar 30th 2009 10:48AM
Great....Dancing Rune gettin nerfed. Sigh, my ace in the hole, gone like that. Now I'll actually have to learn how to play.
tigerg Mar 30th 2009 11:22AM
This is great. nerf the DK some more. Can anyone say hero class no more with me because with all the changes and nerfs to the DK it is no longer a hero class.
Michael Mar 30th 2009 12:47PM
LOL
Is this a serious statement?
First off, they will need more nerfs to actually bring them in line with most other classes.
And second, 'Hero' means you started at lvl 55 with sick gear, not that you can easily WTFRape everyone else.
Walvane Mar 31st 2009 12:02AM
DK Nerfs? I didnt See any Nerf. Only Buffs!!!
See, Scourge Strike hits like a truck on live servers, and now, imagine:
Outbreak + Black ice + Teh New Dissecration.
All this, and a rune system 10% faster. Thats will make the unholy DK´s a Assasin. No armor mitigation, and a lot of Magic damage as mellee attacks. Thats pretty nice!
Lets see another point: Death Coil + Black Ice + Glyph of Dark Death and 130 Runic Power. WoW!!! We got a Ranged Nuke!
I will not getting surprised if i see some DK´s doing 10K Damage Scourge strike and 7-8K Death Coils.....
So, where is the nerfs???
Jay Mar 30th 2009 11:50AM
http://www.skeletonjack.com/2009/03/28/devs-at-play-on-the-ptr-part-8-sj-loling-at-blizzard/
There is your new Frost Build and all about how it is the new "disease-less" spec considering you won't have to cast IT or PS.
Enjoy my fellow Frost DKs.
Grubba Mar 30th 2009 2:04PM
"So, where is the nerfs???"
You could, you know, actually read the article. It does talk about them.
Dancing Rune Weapon: nerfed (heavily)
Death Strike: nerfed (not as heavily)
It's cool that you're not Blood, but what would be even cooler is paying attention to the article you're commenting on.
Walvane Mar 31st 2009 12:02AM
Well, all you show me, its a Tree Nerf. Not a DK, not an entire class nerf. May be my poor english confused you about my comment... But i was talking about a Nerf to THE CLASS... not only one tree.... i was answering some ppl talking about DK is not a hero class anymore... soo, take easy, and be happy.
jerzz80 Mar 30th 2009 1:05PM
you mean they aren't gonna just delete this god forsaken class and be done with it?
Hero Class: Fail - do we even know what this is? Cant remember last time a DK was anyone's Hero. Unless you work for EA or Eidos.
Starting at level 50 instead of 1: Fail - Maybe instead of 25% of the active classes being pooled into the 1 OP DK Class we might have some variety instead of bunch of alt-aholics that suck, running around OP thinking they are good.
ANOTHER Mele DPS Class: Fail - "LFM Deeps Anything but a DK"
Completely unbalanced for PVP: Fail - If ur DPS and not a DK, you're wasting yout time.
Futue Mar 30th 2009 1:18PM
Glass half full much?
AltairAntares Mar 30th 2009 1:46PM
"Completely unbalanced for PVP: Fail - If ur DPS and not a DK, you're wasting yout time."
And what were the classes that won the tournament this year in asia? Oh yea.....