Lichborne: More emergent builds on the 3.1 PTR
The builds and changes and tweaks seem to be coming faster and more furious, but at the same time seem to have settled down to changing things in a very final and deliberate way, if that makes sense. Whether we're a week or a month from 3.1 going live though, things are likely to change a little bit.
Still, my gut tells me that most of the major tree shifts and mechanics changes are probably out there, and it's just a matter of tweaking numbers. So it may be a good chance to take a look at what newish builds are getting some buzz in the Death Knight community for being the new hotness in 3.1. In specific, let's look at a Blood Build that reacts to some of the latest changes for that tree, and a stacked Unholy build.
Blood has seen a few major changes since we last talked about it. Specifically, people have been getting antsy about a few Dancing Rune Weapon changes, namely that it only does 50% damage and that it takes more Runic Power to keep active. In addition, the permaghoul has now been placed a few tiers deeper in the Unholy Tree, making it impossible to grab for a 51-point Frost or Blood build. Now honestly, I'm not too concerned about the latter issue. Fact is, since they moved Night of the Dead up to tier 4, it's really an overall buff. After all, a permaghoul won't do you much good if he gets destroyed by a stiff breeze. The AE avoidance of Night of the Dead should make up for the loss and then some.
That said, these two factors have created the perfect excuse for a few people to try to come up with a build that keeps the permaghoul and drops the now supposedly underpowered Dancing Rune Weapon. 44/0/27 is the most promising result of that experimentation. It's nice in that it keeps most of the heart of Blood intact, with most of the major hard hitting physical talents. It skips some of the health recovery talents, but you won't really need those as much for group PvE. In addition, it also grabs a lot of the iconic stuff from the Unholy tree, both Unholy Blight and the perma-ghoul, and plays to Blood's strengths with talents such as Necrosis and Morbidity.
Preliminary reports from the PTR suggest it's at least competitive with full Unholy and Frost 2-hand DPS builds, although I haven't seen enough data to be completely sure. Still, on paper, it looks like it should work. The biggest issue with this build has to do with the fact that Death Strike has been nerfed again. Now that it's back to 60% weapon damage, there may be some argument for returning to 13 Frost for Annihilation, especially now that Black Ice buffs Shadow Damage again.
Overall, I'm almost hopeful that this build proves viable regardless. The combination of some of the best parts of Blood and Unholy looks amazing on paper, but the question remains as to whether it will stand up to extended testing.
Honestly, I expect Death Strike and Dancing Rune Weapon to be bumped back up in damage a bit, if the numbers reported by some Death Knights that put 51 Blood back to 300 DPS below other specs are true. We have a few more builds to go before the patch, I'd guess, and I think Blizzard will balance it. Still while you're considering your 51/2/18 or 51/0/20 builds, this one might end up deserving a second glance, if only for the fun of it.
Speaking of Black Ice, the fact that it buffs Shadow Damage has inspired some Unholy Death Knights to test out a 0/10/61 DPS build. It would, in theory, seem a little iffy to stack so many talent points in one tree, but it works. The new shadow damage enabled Black Ice is just one more tool in this build to push shadow damage to ludicrous levels, since Unholy does plenty of it between Scourge Strike and Unholy Blight and so on.
This build is nice in that you get almost all the cool toys of Unholy without sacrificing DPS. Improved Unholy Presence, Desecration, Wandering Plague, they're all there. Plus, Frost is finally in a position where it doesn't feel like a complete waste to spec into as a secondary tree. Runic Power Mastery and Black Ice are both incredibly useful for an Unholy DPSer who does lots of shadow damage and chugs down runic power like a frat bro on spring break in cancun chugging down cheap beer.
There is some thought that this build could eventually fall behind on scaling. Since it doesn't take Bladed Armor, which provides extra attack power which works for physical damage as well as shadow and frost damage, it's possible that as we get into more powerful gear, the damage boost from bladed armor will overtake the shadow damage boost from Black Ice. The other concern with this build is that it does miss out on Dark Convinction, which means a few fewer Wandering Plague procs. However, it's worth noting that the only real reason Unholy Death Knights need critical strike is said Wandering Plague, and when you're AEing stuff down, you'll get so many individual chances for Wandering Plague to proc that that 5% proc chance difference will slip into almost nothing.
That said, A good solid 18/2/51 build will probably still be a completely viable build in 3.1, so we'll probably see a bit of both, depending on how the final DPS totals shake out.
Closing Thoughts
As I said, We still probably have a build or two to go before 3.1 is final. I get the feeling things are about where they'll be skill and talent wise, and all that remains is a few tweaks in damage totals. We'll probably see either a buff to Death Strike and Dancing Rune Weapon or a slight nerf to Gargoyle in order to bring Blood, Frost, and Unholy all in line with each other in the DPS department. Between that and dual specs, it should be fun to see how everything shakes down when the patch goes live. We'll be working on keeping up with it here at Lichborne.
Filed under: Patches, Analysis / Opinion, Talents, Death Knight, (Death Knight) Lichborne
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Reader Comments (Page 2 of 2)
AltairAntares Mar 30th 2009 1:49PM
In anycase, do we have any timeline on when 3.1 is supposed to go live? Are we expecting another month of testing? a week? What's normal for a content patch?
jerzz80 Mar 30th 2009 4:05PM
"And what were the classes that won the tournament this year in asia? Oh yea....."
...it was a RMP team in 3s. What about 2s? Oh yea....you probably arent an avid arena player and dont know anything about balance.
...it was a RMP team in 3s...what about any other DPS combo? Oh yea...they all had DKs making your point prove my point even further.
next time, dont be a silly little boy with some one off stat you read and actually know what ur talking about before you post something. Oh yea....
Kosus Mar 30th 2009 5:41PM
Not gettin into the debate over the class lol, but I noticed you haven't mentioned a build I've been playing around with so I thought I'd post it and get some feedback.
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deathknight=23050205300000000000000000003200505135200301230005101351000000000000000000000000000000&glyph=181317040605&version=9733
6000 Mar 30th 2009 3:28PM
*Brrring-Brrrring*
WowInsider: (picking up phone) "Yes, hello?"
Frost Dps: "High, this is Frost build dps."
WI: "Who?"
FD: "Frost Dps build. You know, 21/50/0 tree?"
WI: "I'm sorry, I don't listen to Hip Hop."
FD: "No, no, like DeathKnights, World of Warcraft?"
WI: "..."
FD: "Anyways, I was just calling to let you know Im getting +3.5k dps on the ptr test forum, Ghoul-less. Also wanted to say that Ghoul's a gonner in Ulduar anyways so it's not a good standard to go by."
WI: "Am i getting charged for this?"
FD: "nvrmnd."
*click*
(end scene)
J Mar 30th 2009 8:36PM
So whats the 18/2/51 build supposed to look like?
immen Mar 30th 2009 8:58PM
as far as no viable dw dps builds on the ptr, i very much disagree. I have spent countless hours trying things out on the ptr and have found a few dw builds that stay competative with 2 hander builds. Currently the build i am using on the ptr 0/50/21 out dpses my diseasless blood build and my 0/32/39 on live when it comes to the boss dummy. I know this is hardly a viable approach to testing out dps, but not having a guild to raid with on the ptr has alotted me no other means for comparison.
Considering on live tho with the builds i have mentioned, i have compared my patchwerk dps to the dps ive done on the dummies and have found that in a general sense you can use the numbers for comparison. For example, any build that i have used to get around 2700 dps on the boss dummy, i have gotten around 5k on patchwerk 25 man. Ive achieved this with at least 3 different specs. On the dummy, all 3 were around 2.7k-3k dps over 3 minutes.
Now, with the dw spec i mentioned on the ptr, i was consitantly pulling 3.1-3.2k dps over a 3 minute period. Thats higher than anything i have done on live aside from a few times with diseasless blood where i got lucky with a lot of crits.
Now im not saying that i have not found 2 handed builds to average slightly better than this on the ptr, but there are 2 things that make me believe that dw can still keep up even with slightly lower avg dps on a boss dummy.
1) 2 handed dps is a lot more spikey rather than consistant dps compared to a dw spec. Sometimes this is a good thing but personaly i prefer consistancy over spike damage
2) from what ive seen, dual weilding scales more with full raid buffs than 2 handed builds do. My support for this argument being that my findings on dw builds that have similar dps to 2 hander builds during 25 man patchwerk have on avg lower results on boss dummies, therefore, they scale a little bit better.
Pardon me for not taking the time to show mathematical evidence supporting this claim but i am rather lazy. The main reason for my post was to give a little bit of hope to all those dw fans out there. For min/maxers, dw prolly wont win your hearts with 3.1, but i dont think the gap will be as great as you may believe.
also for those of you who are interested, here is the rotation i have come up with. it assumes a few things in order to work well tho, 4 piece tier bonus helps, you need 2 points in epidemic, frost strike glyph and annihilation 3 points, and blood of the north max
ps-it-ob-bs-bs-unholy blight-fs if enough rp
ob-ob-ob-fs dump
after the frost strike dump, your diseases should have just wore off so you start back over. also, by the time you get back to the ub in that rotation, it has just expired no ub glyph necessary.
one final note, this build i have made revolves around my current gear build and will probably not be optimal for everyone. I have tried to make use of talents and enchants so that i dont have uneccessary amounts of hit/expertise. Unbuffed my ap is around 3.2k, im hit/expertise capped and my crit is around 25%. I use slow/fast silent crusade/hatestrike and use crusader/cinderglacier
immen Mar 30th 2009 11:35PM
a slight edit to my previous post, i hadnt tested since the newest patch that moved the perma ghoul farther up the tree. However i was able to duplicate the results with a slightly different build same rotation. 0/45/26
Seth Mar 31st 2009 11:40AM
I've been a frost tank from the creation of my DK and all i see is 1 huge nurf to tanking. I already feel like i take spike damage as a tank and that is with a +50% avoidance with blade barrier up. This patch really make me want to just roll dps, no point of trying to tank if you can't. I know the frost tanking tree is useless now, the 25% to strength from the unbreakable armor isn't going to make up the 5% parry, i honestly can care less if i do no dps when i'm tanking but this patch really makes it look like blizzard just wants us to be dps. The blade barrier is going to suck, 5% damage reduction isn't 0% of 10% parry, seems like they don't want us to tank at all. Just way i am seeing it. I know if i am to stay a tank might as well go down the dps tank tree of unholy and blood. Looks grim to me as far as DK tanks, this patch looks like its not going to help the tanking crisis at all.
Renmiri Apr 8th 2009 12:16AM
I've had the blood + perma pet spec for months and done a lot of experimenting with it. Tried 44/0/27 and a lot of other combos but most of it was underpowered compared to pure blood, by 200 dps at least.
I've finally found a spec that works and have been using it with good sucess.. on elitist jerks deathgraph and on my raids / instances it does a bit more than pure blood, with perma pet: 27/0/44
http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-achievements.xml?r=Bloodhoof&n=Renknight
Alas, don't know how it would work on 3.10
Quote the Raven Apr 15th 2009 10:26AM
With the 44/0/27 build, what would the rotation look like? Toying around with my new frostless build and not quite sure what's best.
beastmodeshit Apr 16th 2009 7:35PM
i only want to say a few things
first off is i tried the 44/0/27 build before i read this casue i was just playing around with the free re-spec and all i have to say about that is that it is not that great of a build
second is that the 0/10/60 build looks very promising and i thing i am going to go try that soon