Bornakk defends removing the drakes
by Mike Schramm 
Apr 1st 2009 at 9:00PM
As you have probably heard, Blizzard will be removing the Plagued and Black Proto-drake mounts from the game as of 3.1. Currently they're available from the meta-raiding achievements, but since Blizzard wants to keep them rare, they've put a limit on the time you have to finish off those achievements before Ulduar gear and higher levels make them too easy. Lots of players are less than happy about this -- we're not in the right place right now to do these achievements, but we still really want a chance at these drakes. But Bornakk defends the decision over on the forums: he says that they didn't want the achievements to be "watered down as patch after patch goes by."One player suggests tweaking them in a little different way: the new Herald of the Titans achievement actually requires you to have a certain iLevel on your gear, so that you can't get it if you're geared out so well it makes the fight trivial. Players want to know why Blizzard can't do that with the Glory of the Raider achievements, so that no matter what new gear we get, the difficulty stays the same.
But Bornakk confirms that it's not a matter of difficulty, it's a question of rarity. If players were always able to get the mounts, there would always be more and more of the mounts in the game. They want to cut off the supply, period. The good news is that there will eventually be more rare mounts to go after (and I can't wait until I see that Gnome head flying around). But the proto-drakes' time is almost up.
Filed under: Items, Analysis / Opinion, Virtual selves, Odds and ends, Blizzard, Mounts, Achievements
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 7)
Josh Apr 1st 2009 9:10PM
I think its good to remove them, just like they removed the bear mounts from ZA. What's the fun in busting your butt to get a mount if everyone can just wait a few months and walk in and basically have a free mount? I always hate when Blizzard tries to please the people that suck at the game by giving them cool stuff with less effort (ie Glad gear via honor). Glad that they're not doing it with the drakes.
Kakistocracy Apr 1st 2009 9:14PM
Using the ZA analogy, wouldn't Ulduar be Sunwell? So shouldn't the mount stay till the patch before the next expansion when all boss hp drops by 30% and new talents come out?
Krejb Apr 1st 2009 9:29PM
I sure hope Ulda isn't Sunwell. :P I just like the idea that you won't be able to not try for the achievement till you have Ulda gear and just stomp through it then. If you can get it in the time that Blizz gives you... gg. If not... too bad.
danawhitaker Apr 1st 2009 9:41PM
Gorram it, I'm so sick and tired of the proponents of these changes saying that everyone who hasn't gotten the achievement by now sucks and it should be taken out so "bad" players can't get it and taint the distinction. Yeah, hi. I just hit level 78 this weekend. I just reactivated my account in December and started a new character from the ground up. It doesn't mean I suck, it means I don't have as much time to play as everyone else might and I didn't even start on Northrend content until very recently. By the time I'm geared enough to be running it, the reward will be long gone.
People who are brand new to the game and are leveling characters, too, do not suck. They aren't high enough level to access the content yet. I don't know why you insist on painting everyone who hasn't gotten these achievements and mounts yet with the same brush.
In addition, I'll point out that people going into the raids with higher level gear than they're intended to be done with are often doing it in smaller groups than 10 or 25, which mean they aren't completely cake. I went to AQ20 last night with two 80s and we got the achievement for beating it, but it still required strategy and healing and was at times difficult. I would be completely unimpressed to hear about 20 people at level 80 going into AQ20 and clearing it. But 2, 3, 4 people? That's still an accomplishment (although with your attitude, you probably disagree). I suspect on some of the lower population servers, it was difficult to even get 20 or 40 people together to do it when it first opened if you didn't have an established guild. So there are a lot of people who simply didn't have the opportunity to tackle content "at level" either.
Blizzard's worried about too many people having the mount? Really? That's like saying they're worried about there being too many level 80s in the game and capping everyone at 79 once a certain number of people hit 80. After all, as more people hit 80, it becomes easier to get to 80 because you can have people plow you through content.
Players are naturally going to progress through the content. Not everyone has the same amount of time to play. Everyone should have equal opportunity to get the achievement. That means not removing stuff from the game and penalizing people who are new to it. Yes, some people would get there more slowly, but that certainly doesn't mean they won't work hard for it or don't earn it.
The only people truly threatened by things being kept in the game and accessible to everyone are people who, I can only fathom, measure themselves by their epeen and have serious self-esteem issues when it comes to life outside the game. When you're running around on your mount with your title from running whatever the latest and greatest raid is on the hardest difficulty, should you really *care* about people who earned the previous one after you did under different circumstances? Once again, 2% of the population trying to control the game for the other 98%. Leave the rest of us alone.
SaintStryfe Apr 1st 2009 10:29PM
danawhitaker: Very insightful comment. I don't agree but that's the single best explanation of that side of the argument I've read. Bravo.
tonedeff: You are a rude little schmuck. Thanks for making those of us who think they should be limited look like the bourgeoisie just before the revolution.
Pat Apr 1st 2009 11:20PM
I'm sick of lazy people who expect everything to be handed to them. The people who earned their drakes worked hard for them, earned the achievements the way they were designed and while it matters. You can still get the achievement if you want, but not what is supposed to be an ultra-rare 310% speed mount. Work on getting to 80 before crying about an achievement's integrity being preserved.
Zul Apr 1st 2009 11:38PM
I suppose people like >danawhitaker< think the entire game is based around them and that we should all wait for her to obtain a mount. This is not how it works champ, it just isn't. Theres Ulduar so get it into high game and join a good guild and another proto drake can be all yours. Now gtfo.
fyve & Boomstick Apr 1st 2009 11:51PM
@danawhitaker
Your argument is sound, but that not why the drakes are there, If you want a mount thats kind of rare, then you can go grind wintersabre rep or search for the time lost drake, at your own pace.
If you want the achievement then thats cool, go through it at your own pace.
BUT If you want one of these plagued protodrakes with the 310 speed then you have to do it according to blizzards schedule. Really its irrelevant whether you started your account the day before patch 3.1 hits, or have never let it lapse in 4 years, The drakes are going. If you havent got one by then, Bad luck. There are alternatives, there will BE alternatives.
@ all the other QQ'ers. The drakes are going, there will be new Ulduar fancy drakes. I suggest you crack on getting them, before they too are removed.
James Apr 2nd 2009 12:23AM
I can see Blizzard's point...but then again not all of us can be in a top-end raiding guild, some guilds still struggle to put together worthwhile 25-man PuGs. It's not fair that the people who do not have jobs and raid 7-nights-a-week can get this stuff and yet people who DO have jobs are punished because they can't devote so long to doing every achievement. Then again Blizzard always makes money using World of Warcraft to award the few instead of the many.
Kakistocracy Apr 2nd 2009 12:45AM
I think this debate has overlooked a significant issue, namely the fact that many of these modes of "reasoning" as falsely predicated.
There seems to be an assumption that the exclusive source of value for a mount is how rare it is, and so the more rare it is, the happier the people that have it are, and the greater then number of people that do not have it, but what about the visual appeal? If that played no role, wouldn't we see incredible plain mounts rewarded to a "select" few? I can understand how more people having a mount would diminish its rarity, but how so can the same be said of it's appearance? Sure, if everyone used the same mount, the lack of contrast could have some effect, but no one is so naive as to think that would happen, as with mounts being more obtainable a proportionate increase in mounts would be available to each individual and so it would be more a matter of taste. After all, would you rather ride on what looks like a cross between fecal matter and a donkey because only five people on the server have one, or something that looks cool?
If that sounds like an over simplification to you, it might be because it is, but less so than the alternative.
Kawet Apr 2nd 2009 1:02AM
So by your argument danawhitaker, blizz should also leave in things like the baby bear some of us got for the 4 year anniversary just because some of the newer people were not around for them, or because some, like you, didn't currently have any active account? The only people whom I empathize with are the ones who are going to miss the mount by a short amount of time, those who when the changes go into effect, are one or two away from it. Everyone else can still get the achievement, but have to wait for another opportunity to get a unique mount.
If you were one of the people who got the mount, would it mean as much to you if you saw it all over the place, or if you rarely saw it, and could make a more personal connection to those other who had it?
MaatJusticeTruth Apr 2nd 2009 3:32AM
Dana:
I disagree, I would also say that the 4 titles need to be removed as well. This is coming from a player that does not have, undying, Immortal, of the Nightfall, or Twilight Vanquisher. I believe that even if you imposed the i-level requirement it still defeats the hard work put into this achievement.
Now of course the majority of the player-base will not get these mounts, but I say that is what makes them so beautiful. I have wanted a Black Proto-Drake ever since I first step into Naxx. The excitement and anticipation ever week when we try this achievement or that made the fails bitter sweet but I honestly felt like I was working towards a goal, even if in reality it was unreachable.
If I log on a month or two after the patch and I see everyone sitting outside Dal on a Black Proto-Drake all those nights become wasted. I honestly believe that there should be some things that not everyone can have. Why? because that great night when things go right and you get that one item you can have it with pride and a sense of accomplishment.
Here is what happens when you put in the i-level requirement. Patch hits everyone goes to Ulduar gets the gear they need to make Naxx easier then people get the BiS for that i-level. Then i ask you, hasn't the Ulduar i-level affected people's ability to get the Black Proto-Drake, therefore cheapening it? Please do not fall into the trap that people are not going to go to Ulduar before they have their Black Proto-Drake.
Its not a matter that those that do not have the mounts yet are bad, its a matter that no one is going to sit around in Naxx week after week grinding out these Achievements when they can be in Ulduar.
Verit Apr 2nd 2009 6:10AM
I know someone who is in a hardcore guild, and is one achievement away from getting it, but it doesn't seem likely because people are getting burned out. She is rather frustrated about this because blizzard never said they were going to pull achievements out of the game, and they never set a deadline.
I think doing this makes people lose trust in the game and Blizzard.
rosencratz Apr 2nd 2009 7:06AM
IMO
It's a shame i couldn't get these drakes but atleast i have some new ones to aim for. It's just that, a shame. It's not that important in the grand scheme of things but it is a shame.
I think the only real problem here is we weren't told that some achievements and rewards are a limited time only deal. If everyone knew when they started going for the achievement that they had a deadline it wouldn't have been so bad. It's made doubly annoying by the fact that Blizzard are more vocal about their plans than ever these days and yet left it quite late on to let us know about it.
Thebum Apr 2nd 2009 8:46AM
No one complained that not everyone could get an armored netherdrake in TBC, why do they complain when they can't get the WotlK PvE equivalent?
Grfyn Apr 2nd 2009 9:31AM
danawhitaker: Excellent post.
I just wonder when these drakes will be identified as welfare mounts, in the same way we once had welfare epics. After all, more than 90% of us are buying expansion boxes and paying monthly fees so that Blizzard can develop items for the 10% who are far enough ahead of the curve to earn them first; first, and last, as it turns out. I do want to emphasize "earn", because the players who have them now have certainly earned them; I simply do not agree with Blizzard taking away the opportunity for others to earn what will very soon be yesterday's news in the world of the WoW snob.
Perhaps they are trying to tell us that we are playing their game wrong. Maybe their intention is for everyone to launch an all-out assault at the launch of each new expansion. Never mind the amazing quests; don't stop to explore the gorgeous new zones; just get one of the innumerable guides prepared during the writer's time as a beta "tester" and race through the levels as fast as your play time will allow and do nothing else until you hit the level cap, then immediately start gearing up. Find a guild - any guild, even one you don't like - capable of 25-mans and go, go, go! Raid, raid, raid, and stop for nothing until you have every reward you are interested in, because you never know when or where a timer is set to go off and take the carrot right from in front of your face.
That aside, if the sanctity of achievement is of such priority, when will the Baron's mount be removed? Surely the accomplishment of getting the Baron's mount is trivialized by 80s doing it solo, and to a much greater extent than would be these achievements being completed by the untouchables in 6 months. Actually, why not close down Stockades, Scarlet Monastery - really, all the old instances.? The pre-BC instances are only really used for twinking, which by definition requires a trivialization of the content, so they should go as well.
Or, maybe we could let people play this game at their own pace. I think the inability to appreciate something unless few others can have it is a function of envy, and, of all human qualities, that is perhaps not the best choice to build on.
Rob Apr 2nd 2009 10:07AM
@dana - kuddos for this. However realize there are two pretty distinct catagories of gamers. You and I are in the 'casual' set, and, well, most of the people who read this are 'hardcore'. Blizz caters to the casuals alot now, with naxx being pretty easy and so forth. The hardcore people occassionally throw tantrums that the hardest content is eventually nerfed so that everyone can see it. So this is their bone, getting the drakes and titles. We're not going to see em, ever. We'll have to get used to that. That or spend 20,30, 40 hours a week raiding/playing.
For the hardcore, i'm happy you're happy. I'd like to get the titles, drakes, etc, but its just not worth it. I've come to realize the only thing that matters in this game is hanging out with friends. The rest of it is just garbage to keep people coming back and logging in. All the mounts, achievements, grinds, etc, they just are ways to 'make you' spend insane amounts of time to get anywhere in the game. That's how it's designed.
I'm saying this as a semi-retired player who invested 2+ years in the game - i know exactly how it works and what the lure is.
Deadly. Off. Topic. Apr 2nd 2009 10:31AM
Erm, Kawet , don’t make stupid comparisons between the Baby bear which everyone was aware of was a limited time thing WITH the mount achievement which they weren’t initially aware of. Especially since all you had to do was have an active account, you didn’t have to work at an achievement list to get one. Comparing apples and oranges does not work, find a better example or don’t bother. Only a careless, lazy person would compare two different things like that.
I think her argument was mainly expressed towards new people not being able to have the time to gain the achievements if they started late. At least that’s what I understand.
Deewee Apr 2nd 2009 10:45AM
I for my part are pretty much pissed off with this.
We trying Immortal since good 12 Weeks now, and each time its a fuck up cuz of some stupid crap.
Someone laggs out at Thaddius, half the next room adds in the middle of Gothic, people die at Gluth for no reason, people stand in the splash on Heigan but they really dont....people get feared in a void zone at Kel...stupid crap like this you know?
Its like lottery, you win or you lose.
But it has nothing to do with skill.
Exodeus Apr 2nd 2009 11:29AM
To casuals: You are not entitled to hardcore rewards because you pay the same monthly fee. You say you can't play enough to raid enough to get the rewards. Sorry about that, but I do raid enough (actually, my guild has been clearing all content in 1 night of raiding for 3 months, so I actually don't play that much) and we did earn the rewards. There are only 4 guilds on my server that have Heroic: GotR, and I'm proud to be in one of them. The 310% mount is a status symbol, something I can be proud I worked for. I also got the 10-man version, which was still a big deal to me. OS3d-10 was the hardest thing I've done in wrath.
So yeah, QQing isn't going to change the fact that Blizzard doesn't owe every subscriber a special 310% mount. And I think some of you confuse the above statement with the fact that you're also not losing anything in any way. You didn't have one of the 2 mounts being removed before, and though you can't get them, you're not being punished in any way. There's a distinct difference that many of you don't see.
Also, there are other options for casual gamers to earn proto-drakes. And if you really really have to have a 310% speed mount, then you should be aiming for the Violet Proto-Drake from the holiday achievements.