The Care and Feeding of Warriors: PTR Arms
by Matthew Rossi 
Apr 4th 2009 at 2:00PM
Anyone who remembers when warriors were rage starved due to us being bugged so that we were being given way too many misses, or when a missed execute ate all of your rage, can attest to the warrior class being really funny sometimes. My wife used to laugh and say that Blizzard had done a wonderful job of transferring the sensation of building rage to the player. Your character might be rage starved, but you? Oh, you'd be screaming at the computer as if you could yell your rage bar into red.
That's why I've decided to move away from talking about fury in 3.1 and to spend the next two or three columns discussing tanking and arms spec, especially as they're going to be. This week, we'll talk about Arms as PvE and PvP.
Part of the reason I wanted to test Arms on the PTR is that I finally have the gear to test out certain presumptions I've had since I looked at the changes for arms. The armor penetration on Battle Stance combines extremely well with Mace Specialization. (For reference, the build I'm playing with is this one. As always, I know it could be better.) With Mace Spec and the new and improved Battle Stance combined I'm rocking 25% armor penetration before gear: when Grim Toll procs I'm approaching 65%. Keeping in mind that I don't have any of the new Ulduar gear on my cow, I'm loaded with more expertise than I need (I passed on Weapon Mastery, for example, because I have 30 expertise just from Strength of Arms and my gear). I'm not even counting the Shattering Throw armor reduction because frankly I often forget to use it in PvE.
As you can see from my stats, I'm lower on attack power than I would want to be to really get the most DPS out of the arms spec, but even with these stats, I was pleasantly surprised with what I could do. These are not intended to be taken as true benchmarks, just examples.
This is an unbuffed (save for Battle Shout) run at a boss training dummy. Its hardly earth-shattering, but for the gear level I have (a mix of Naxx 10 and 25 epics, a Jawbone) it's reasonably solid. A later run capped out at about 1800 DPS before I moved away from the dummy, and gave me the following graphs.
Things to keep in mind: I have no swing timer of any kind on test, I'm purely just trying to find a solid rotation for these attacks, I'm still without one (For this experiment I tried to prioritize Execute - Overpower - Slam - MS but as you can see I got a lot more overpowers than executes on this particular run - I'm now thinking Overpower should be priority over Execute). Rend and Deep Wounds are still a very large part of my DPS but Vverpower was definitely providing a great deal of my raw damage here. I was pleasantly surprised that MS managed to come close to Rend, frankly. If I'd worked Slam more and gotten luckier with Sudden Death procs, I think I could have easily pushed 2200 DPS on this spec. Again, that's unbuffed.
This means that the developers have at least succeeded at one thing: they have brought Arms much, much closer to a viable DPS spec as compared to fury. Right now, with a human fury warrior dual wielding maces on live I can hit 2200 to 2600 DPS on a dummy. On test, it's lower, but still with familiarity I'm capable of hitting about 2000 DPS unbuffed, which is right about where Arms is ending up. Were I a better arms warrior with a swing timer and more experience with the spec? Arms is indisputably better on test than it is on live. In the past I've complained about the pace of change for Arms on test, but as far as Arms DPS on test is concerned right now, I have nothing to complain about. These changes have absolutely improved the spec for PvE.
Unrelenting Assault in particular is the most felt change to the spec, I believe. The armor penetration is nice, yes, and I'm definitely much more of a fan of Mace Spec for PvE now, but I think even a cursory examination of my fumbling attempts on the dummy prove that Overpower is much improved with the talent.
My personal gear level meant that I have plenty of hit and expertise, but what I found most interesting was the fact that between Weapon Mastery and Strength of Arms an up and coming arms warrior in blues will be easily able to move dodge chance entirely out of play, making Arms probably the more gear-friendly DPS spec. While still improving as gear improves, it will be easier for a new 80 going into PvE to be sure he won't be dodged while attacking from behind (important because melee is still a big source of arms DPS) while also not worrying about losing his or her overpowers thanks to Taste for Blood.
I wasn't able to get an Arena match in on test, but I did run around Wintergrasp making a nuisance of myself. Right now I can say that Juggernaut is, by itself, a positive boon. I didn't have PvP gear on, so in general I had the same problem any warrior is going to have when focus fired in PvP, I died fast. But when I got lucky enough to pick up a pocket healer the added mobility of Juggernaut makes keeping casters in range much easier, and the one-two punch of the MS debuff and the Overpower casting debuff makes healers miserable: pop a paladin's shield with Shattering Throw, then charge and MS/rend/overpower and you can hamper him a lot more effectively than warriors have ever been able to. Since we're the class with almost no real way to outlast healing, it's nice to see some viability in our old role as spoilers.
In short, Arms feels much more viable for both PvP and PvE on test. It's not perfect yet: the rotation feels ridiculously tight to me, you have to be on top of it constantly watching for procs and not missing anything, you can find youself entirely rage starved even with over 300 hit due to the fact that all of your rage generation depends on a big, slow 2h weapon. But man, it's so much better, even a middling arms warrior like myself can do reasonable damage with it. Imagine how good it will be with someone who's used to the playstyle.
Next week, we'll talk prot in 3.1. Does the change to Defensive Stance and Improved Defensive Stance mean much? Does more damage from all attacks and more damage from Thunder Clap and Shockwave produce measureable increases in threat?
This means that the developers have at least succeeded at one thing: they have brought Arms much, much closer to a viable DPS spec as compared to fury. Right now, with a human fury warrior dual wielding maces on live I can hit 2200 to 2600 DPS on a dummy. On test, it's lower, but still with familiarity I'm capable of hitting about 2000 DPS unbuffed, which is right about where Arms is ending up. Were I a better arms warrior with a swing timer and more experience with the spec? Arms is indisputably better on test than it is on live. In the past I've complained about the pace of change for Arms on test, but as far as Arms DPS on test is concerned right now, I have nothing to complain about. These changes have absolutely improved the spec for PvE.
Unrelenting Assault in particular is the most felt change to the spec, I believe. The armor penetration is nice, yes, and I'm definitely much more of a fan of Mace Spec for PvE now, but I think even a cursory examination of my fumbling attempts on the dummy prove that Overpower is much improved with the talent.
My personal gear level meant that I have plenty of hit and expertise, but what I found most interesting was the fact that between Weapon Mastery and Strength of Arms an up and coming arms warrior in blues will be easily able to move dodge chance entirely out of play, making Arms probably the more gear-friendly DPS spec. While still improving as gear improves, it will be easier for a new 80 going into PvE to be sure he won't be dodged while attacking from behind (important because melee is still a big source of arms DPS) while also not worrying about losing his or her overpowers thanks to Taste for Blood.
I wasn't able to get an Arena match in on test, but I did run around Wintergrasp making a nuisance of myself. Right now I can say that Juggernaut is, by itself, a positive boon. I didn't have PvP gear on, so in general I had the same problem any warrior is going to have when focus fired in PvP, I died fast. But when I got lucky enough to pick up a pocket healer the added mobility of Juggernaut makes keeping casters in range much easier, and the one-two punch of the MS debuff and the Overpower casting debuff makes healers miserable: pop a paladin's shield with Shattering Throw, then charge and MS/rend/overpower and you can hamper him a lot more effectively than warriors have ever been able to. Since we're the class with almost no real way to outlast healing, it's nice to see some viability in our old role as spoilers.
In short, Arms feels much more viable for both PvP and PvE on test. It's not perfect yet: the rotation feels ridiculously tight to me, you have to be on top of it constantly watching for procs and not missing anything, you can find youself entirely rage starved even with over 300 hit due to the fact that all of your rage generation depends on a big, slow 2h weapon. But man, it's so much better, even a middling arms warrior like myself can do reasonable damage with it. Imagine how good it will be with someone who's used to the playstyle.
Next week, we'll talk prot in 3.1. Does the change to Defensive Stance and Improved Defensive Stance mean much? Does more damage from all attacks and more damage from Thunder Clap and Shockwave produce measureable increases in threat?
Filed under: Warrior, Patches, Analysis / Opinion, Odds and ends, Talents, (Warrior) The Care and Feeding of Warriors
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Nadril Apr 4th 2009 2:05PM
I'll probably run with arms as my second spec next to fury when 3.1 hits. I still think that fury may edge it out in PvP (more mobility still with heroic fury and now imp intercept) but I'll see how arms does as well. I remember really enjoying leveling up as 2H fury back when imp slam was in that tree.
Zul Apr 4th 2009 2:07PM
I really hope arms pvp is going to be somewhat viable for 2s and 3s again. It is now to some extent but a DK or retardin is much more viable. I miss pvping on my warrior alt.
MacGoyver Apr 4th 2009 4:01PM
There lies the second problem. Warriors don't need to be buffed a lot more to be viable. Death Knights and Paladins need to be brought down considerably as well, in order for us to ever find a job.
Dej tuk ar jurbs!
Eric Apr 4th 2009 2:28PM
Matt,
One thing I noticed when working on the training dummy is if you ignore MS all together, your dps will sky rocket.
Precedence is something like this:
Execute > OP > Slam spam
(of course keeping rend up)
Give it a try. You might need to take endless rage because your white hits won't be as plentiful.
Natsumi Apr 5th 2009 11:16AM
Add Haste Gear and you don't have a rage gen problem. I use Deaths Bite on live (Yes, I'm Arms, and I still pull 2500-3400 on most Naxx 25 bosses, I still hate Grobby) and my swing speed is down around 2.9 seconds and under 2 with Heroism. Melee will still be 20% or more of your DPS but you won't have to worry that Slam will starve you for rage.
An Add-On that I find incredibly useful is Power Auras, it tells me when Sudden Death is up, Overpower is active, when I need to rebuff Battle Shout, when Rend drops off, basically anything I need to keep track of. Not to say that it's a required add-on, it just makes things a lot easier when you have to watch for void zones, lava waves, poison clouds, adds, and anything else that can kill/maim you.
As for your spec, it does need improvement. Heroic Strike isn't even on my action bar anymore, I never use it, I have too many other buttons to push to worry about something that happens on next swing, move the points to Parry for those times when you irritate Patchy a little too much (I actually parried 2 Hatefuls in a row when our 2nd OT went down, which was enough to get me out of range). Lastly, Imp Cleave and Unbridled Wrath can/should be dropped for things that will increase your DPS. moving those points over to Commanding Presence and Booming Voice, with the last point put into Endless Rage, since you seem to be worried about Rage Generation.
My proposed spec for 3.1 is http://ptr.wowhead.com/?talent=LcrhbfIt00bRdGuioGx00xb , and other than your choice of weapon, is pretty close to what you should be using for Arms DPS.
Heisenberg Apr 4th 2009 2:29PM
Why do I read a column that so frequently misunderstands mechanics?
In successive posts you've been confused on strength scaling vis a vis Improved Berserker Stance in v3.1 and now draw conclusions about Arms DPS with a 30 second-long recount parse using the wrong ability rotation!
Think critically before you post these opinions!
Wulfhere Apr 4th 2009 2:41PM
Do you even bother to read before you post these little tirades?
He goes out of his way to point out that, even WITH a bad rotation, he managed to put out decent DPS, and that he had two separate runs at the dummy: the second one was purely to show what he was doing wrong.
I mean, what are you, a mouthbreather? The whole point of the data he displayed was how poorly he did and that the spec still delivered decent DPS. If you can't even be bothered to read that, why do you post at all?
Think before you post these opinions. Some of us take time and effort to mock Rossi.
Bangin Apr 4th 2009 5:35PM
This author, Mathew Rossi, has consistently shown his ignorance towards the Warrior class. Within one of his "news" articles awhile ago I found over nine errors in his assumptions of Warrior mechanics.
He consistently writes pure drivel.
Justin Apr 4th 2009 2:51PM
If i plan on using taste for blood in pvp, do you think its worth it to put points into rend? I would say yes for pve but is the extra rend damage worth it for pvp?
Atros Apr 4th 2009 3:02PM
A swing timer is useless anymore. The biggest thing that allowed you to do was time your slams so that they wouldn't reset your autoattack at a bad time. However, Slam has been changed so that instead of resetting your swingtimer, it instead delays it. If you have 1.0 seconds left on your swing timer when you hit Slam, you will have 1.0 seconds left when it connects.
MacGoyver Apr 4th 2009 3:44PM
I know this isn't the right place, but I'm currently unable to log onto the WoW.com forums. Could someone be so kind to post the below onto the 'Damage Dealing' forum? I would love you forever. Long time! :
Fishing for a blue ;-). I'd like to keep it clear and simple.
Are you fine with Weapon Specialization being seperated into three talents?
Are you fine with the shield requirement of 'Spell Reflect' in a PvP environment?
Are you fine with 'Death Grip' being succesful while 'Bladestorm' is active?
Are you fine with giving warriors abilities that require a cast time to be used ('slam', 'Shattering Throw')?
Are you fine with the current damage of 'Mortal Strike'?
Are you fine with the talent 'Sudden Death' as it currently is?
Are you fine with the current usefulness of Rend?
Are you fine with turning 'Improved Berserker Stance' into a mandatory talent, seeing as that was the exact problem with 'Titan's Grip'?
Thanks in advance.
MacGoyver Apr 4th 2009 10:45PM
Aww to bad. Could help clarify a lot, if it landed over there on the forum. *puppy eyes*
Kurdon Apr 4th 2009 3:48PM
I've gotten to the point where audible notifications from MSBT combined with visual HUD notifications via Power Auras has helped me immesurably in not having to rely on staring at my action bars so I won't miss things like Revenge, Overpower, etc. As reactionary as Arms seems to be, I'll likely set up both add-ons to help me stay on top of all my opportunities while specced that way. I've also entertained the idea of going Arms for the other half of my dual spec once 3.1 rolls to production, so I guess some further research is in order.
perderedeus Apr 4th 2009 5:18PM
I'd love to play Arms, but I gave it a go and... well, you're basically proc-watching for every fight. Anything with mobility and you're a bit boned if you use Slam as your bread and butter. MS is a good fill-in, but at a higher rage cost. Keeping Rend up, even with the glyph... and then you have to hit OP every time its up, and Sudden Death if you prioritize that. If Sudden Death isn't up and you need to bleed off rage, HS or MS. Fury's rotation is a touch more simple... BT and Whirlwind when they're up, Slam when you get the proc, bleed off rage with HS. No Rend required.
Though I will miss Charge in combat (in Prot it was fun too). Intercept just isn't the same.
toddcore Apr 4th 2009 5:44PM
I'm afraid you haven't really told us anything here.
While acknowledging your lack of knowledge and practice with the spec is honest and respectable, it also totally invalidates whatever opinion you might have about the current state of said spec.
I've never really played a rogue. If I logged on a friend's account and wailed on a target dummy for two minutes I wouldn't be qualified to declare that rogues are fine because I did better than I expected.
Whether or not a spec is sufficiently improved or viable should be decided by people with more experience and a better understanding of what it takes for that spec to be so. If you don't have that understanding yourself, just do what Schramm always does: Read the info somewhere else, copy and paste here and change a few words around. At least the opinion would be valid even if not your own, as opposed to now where it is your own but invalid.
Indicating that you're geared in most/all epics and then linking a Recount showing you under 2k DPS pretty much proves that either A) the spec is totally broken or B) you're not a good person to be writing "informative" articles about it.
Kevin Apr 4th 2009 6:12PM
I leveled 1-60 arms, then 60-70 arms when BC came out and let me say I loved it. I have been raided as Arms last week and pulled about 2.7 k in decent gear w/ out changing from the prot glyphs (I'm really cheap). For me Arms is WAY more fun to play then fury. Fury is too easy for me. Arms is more challenging and keeps me entertained because you gotta constantly pay attention to your RNG procs like Taste for Blood/Sudden Death.
Anyway, my rotation was pretty effective
Trash: Sweeping Strikes/Bladestorm (typically during this time SD or TfB will proc and you can dish out some nasty dps) MS, Slam when no other ablilities are up
Bosses: Bladestorm, MS, Slam spam. Of course overpower and execute take priority over slam when they proc.
Kurdon Apr 4th 2009 6:17PM
He was honest throughout his submission, almost painfully so, in the meager hope that it would circumvent the need for readers like yourself from making a condescending comment. Obviously, he had more optimism than I do in that regard, for vieers like you will always insure you read the worst in whatever your eyes gaze upon and cackle with glee as you post a scathing response. Might I suggest the Reader's Digest? Perhaps some other printed periodical? It might deter your thirst for antagonism and help you wean yourself off such addictions. Perhaps a gouging of the eyeballs with a spork? If you need yet more suggestions, I'm willing to offer you a list.
toddcore Apr 4th 2009 6:58PM
Hello Kurdon. I appreciate your point of view, but not everyone lives in some euphoric fairy tale land where the harsh realities of the real world aren't a factor.
It wasn't my intent to insult anyone, only to make it clear to anyone reading that Rossi's post is full of guesses, suppositions, and assumptions from a player who admits he isn't familiar with the topic he's writing about.
Sometimes the truth can be harsh but I'd hope we're all grown up and adult enough to face it without resorting to the immaturity you have. I'll observe that you didn't even disagree with what I said, you've simply taken personal offense at the fact that I didn't lace my post with sugary sweet words.
When it comes to the Protection tree, and to a lesser extent the Fury tree, Rossi has a solid grasp of the concepts he's discussing and while he can be flat wrong in some cases, generally his opinions are well founded. Clearly that's not the case with the Arms tree, and I feel it would be a disservice to anyone reading this post looking for information not to inform them that there is none worth having here.
uncaringbear Apr 4th 2009 8:00PM
Given Matt's previous insight and knowledge in the fury and protection trees, I'm more inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt in regards to his speculations on the arms side of things.
This is NOT Elitist Jerks, and I do not expect the same level of detail or research in WoWinsider. Given the intended audience of this site, it's not required.
@toddcore
It's entirely possible to provide meaningful criticism and feedback without sounding arrogant and petulant. These writers are not your employees, or your children, so I fail to see why it's helpful to be harsh.
Teaspoon Apr 4th 2009 8:15PM
Ah, yes. The terribly harsh realities of swinging a pretend mace in a computer game!