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All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsOfficers' Quarters: Friendly favors
by Scott Andrews 
Apr 6th 2009 at 2:00PM
Every Monday Scott Andrews contributes Officers' Quarters, a column about the ins and outs of guild leadership.I'm sure plenty of officers out there can sympathize with the dilemma in this e-mail. The officer who wrote it has recently been promoted (yay!), but now her friends come to her for special favors, intervention with other officers, and insider information (uh oh). She wonders if she can be a good officer without pushing her friends away. (Go easy on this e-mail in the comments. English isn't her first language.)
Hello!
Since you mostly base your posts on e-mails from your readers I thought to send you one concerning my own current problems (I wouldn't know if people can relate to this).
I'm a fairly new (2 weeks) officer in a 25men raiding guild. We have about 30-35 raiders and more social members! I started off as taking over the healing assignments, which led to my opinions about healing setup/healing trials, which led to partly raid leading and then I got promoted. We're only with 3 leaders (the GM and 2 officers-including me) which I think is enough for our guild, people listen. The tasks get done, communication is good . . .
But, I'm this kind of person that cares for the people, I want to stand up and have a fair treatment (which happens in my guild). The thing I've experienced thou[gh] with that attitude is . . . I'm friends with a lot of people in the guild, and sometimes that makes things difficult. In these 2 weeks I've experienced several times of friends expecting me to do them a favour officer wise.
[. . .] E.g.: One of my friends gets a talk (decided by the officers) due [to] his behavior in the raid, he doesn't get demoted just a small talk. After that talk, what happens? They come talking to me about how the officers did them bad, and he doesn't think he did anything wrong, he feels like he's being punished for something he shouldn't get punished for . . . Now, what [. . .] should I do? I try to have a friend to friend talk but somehow the officerpart takes over as well at times. [. . .]
Is this normal? Should I take more of a distance from people to avoid mixing up officer/friendship? After all I want to be there as a friend but sometimes I have to talk to them trough the eyes of an officer. I'm trying to avoid the conversation about what we as officers talk about, but people tend to bring it up at times or confront me with it.
Greetings,
A newbie officer
Oh, it's a fine line we sometimes tread, isn't it, ANO? After all, what's the point of being an officer if you aren't on some level befriending the people you're leading? You have to be a ball buster sometimes, to be sure, but the camaraderie of a well-run guild is one of an officer's very few rewards. Or should we stand above our members, denying ourselves the natural rapport that comes with overcoming shared challenges?
The question is particularly poignant for ANO, since she rose up through the ranks and now her friends expect her to be their champion.
Hey, it's no secret that our world leaders do favors for their friends when they reach a position of power. That's part of the reason they want the job. There's no reason you can't advocate for a friend if you agree that he's been wronged by the officers. If you think your friend has a legitimate complaint, then be a good friend and take the issue upstairs. See if you can rectify the situation to everyone's satisfaction.
If you think your friend is in the wrong, however, and the officers are right, then be a good friend and be honest about it. Obviously he disagrees with the officer who chewed him out. Maybe if you give him a bit more of the officers' perspective on the incident, he'll understand why things happened the way they did. Regardless of how he feels, he can't fault you for being straight with him. And it's also possible that he just needs someone to rant to when he's upset. You can still be that person.
Just because you're an officer doesn't mean you can't be a friend. The key point I'd like to make here, however, is that as an officer you can't only be a friend to your friends. You have to be a friend to all the members under your charge. When it comes time to deal with a delicate situation, do what's fair regardless of whether that member is a close friend or not.
If you only help your friends and ignore everyone else, you won't be a very effective officer. Gradually, the other members will catch on to that pattern of behavior and they'll resent you -- and your friends -- for it. And much like those world leaders who make their friends rich while bankrupting everyone else, you'll be run out of town sooner or later.
As far as disclosing what the officers discuss, you'll have to use your own discretion about what to reveal and what not to. In these cases, I find it better to give someone a general impression than a specific statement. For example, "The officers were disappointed with your effort in the raid last night" is a much better way to approach a conversation than "Officer So-and-so said you're the worst tank he's ever seen."
Some people will always want specifics anyway. They'll follow that up with questions like, "Who said they were disappointed?" or "What did they say exactly?"
You don't need to answer those questions. If you do, it will only create hurt feelings and bad blood between that member and the specific officers who were involved in the criticism. It will also make the officers feel like they can't be honest around you, and you certainly don't want that. Do not let your friends turn you into the /o channel narc.
Just be general and present the officers' feelings as a collective emotion. If the officers don't all agree, members don't need to know that either. You can just say, "Some of the officers were disappointed" instead.
If your friends don't understand why you aren't giving them the juicy inside scoop, then explain to them the awkward position that they're putting you in by asking. They may be let down at first, but (as mom would say) if they're really your friend, they won't ask you to do anything you don't want to do.
/salute
Send Scott your guild-related questions, conundrums, ideas, and suggestions at scott.andrews@weblogsinc.com. You may find your question the subject of next week's Officers' Quarters! For more WoW Insider gameplay columns, click here.Filed under: Officers' Quarters (Guild Leadership)
Reader Comments (Page 2 of 2)
Lyraat Apr 6th 2009 3:08PM
Having distinct and easily-accessible lines of communication can alleviate these problems.
In our guild, we have officers for various groups--melee dps, caster dps, healers, and tanks--as well as a raid leader and a GM. if someone has a problem, they can voice their complaint with their class leader (yes, we call them class leaders even though the designations span multiple classes). That officer deals with the problem himself or passes it upwards to the rest of the officers. Conversely, if a player is not performing, his class leader is the person who talks to him, coaches him up, or says "You suck any more, and you'll never raid again." The officer is a resource, a contact point. He's still friends with his charges. Everyone just needs to recognize that the relationship has changed.
Vhaithe Apr 6th 2009 3:09PM
I've been an officer (and now GM) for my guild for close to three years, and you always ALWAYS want to be fair in what you do. If there are lines being crossed by your friend, you have to call him out on it, otherwise you're doing your friend a disservice.
Would you rather he get a little talking to now, or would you prefer the RL drama that will ensue if the behaviour continues and harsher sanctions start occuring.
And I agree 100% with keeping a united face for officer policy. I may disagree with my fellow officers over a specific issue, but I will never say so in a public forum.
Deadly. Off. Topic. Apr 6th 2009 3:21PM
I think the answer given covered all sides.
Gimmlette Apr 6th 2009 3:23PM
It's tough. As a GM, I'll come right out and say there are people in the guild I love playing with. Others can make me cringe. Yet, they are all in my guild because they like our stated purpose and our style of play. And, I have to remember that there are real fingers pushing those keys to interact with everyone else and those fingers attach to a human who has paid $15 a month to have a pleasant experience in a game. Therefore, it in hugely important to me to treat every single person in the guild, whether I like them today or not, with respect.
Plus, when the guild was formed, we drew up a Code of Conduct. You come into the guild, you agree to abide by the Code. Nowhere does it paraphrase George Orwell in "Animal Farm", 'Some are more equal than others', meaning officers get special treatment. If an officer, or myself, for that matter, says something in Guild Chat, they are accountable if it comes off as mean, bad or lousy. I've only had one person /gquit over something said in Vent or in chat, but there have been a lot of private discussions regarding, "Um...just what did you mean by that? Remember, we can't hear your voice when you type."
It is human nature, I think, to want to know details, whether you need them or not. If we didn't care, there would be no need for paparazzi. I think ANO can fall back on her officer position to say, "Hey, what you're asking makes me uncomfortable answering, given my position as an officer. It's not that there are secrets, but we discuss a lot of things that may or may not have any bearing immediately on the guild. Just as I wouldn't share our personal conversations, please don't expect me to share those."
A good friend respects those boundaries. A 'peripheral' friend, as I call them, may come back with, "Ever since you were made an officer, you've changed." and stalk off in a huff. Then you have to decide what you are willing to tolerate and that gets into human nature and feelings as it would if you were promoted to say, Director of Human Resources. Humans can be such fickle things.
Every day I log on, I draw a mental "line in the sand", if you will. This is the line between me as friend and me as officer. A guild member can come up to but not cross that line. Beyond the line lies the things I do for the benefit of the guild and, sometimes, they aren't popular. Maybe if ANO thought about what she can and cannot reveal, it would help her draw her own mental line. Separating what is and is not officer duty could help her address the "Soooooo, what did the GM think about my tanking that last raid" when you know the GM thought, "OMG, Does he even KNOW how to hold aggro?"
ANO needs to know that she'll never be 100% "right" in all her encounters. Every situation is different and to screw up is inevitable. Apologize and move on. Fix what you can and lean on your other officer and GM for advice. I'm sure they have the same thing going on.
styopa Apr 6th 2009 3:37PM
It's a long-standing question in many contexts, how do you lead (officially) among friends?
It's mainly a question of maturity, both on the part of the officer and the person they're dealing with.
If you genuinely believe that the friend has a fair request, then it should be something you'd be fine with everyone in guild knowing about.
If you're genuinely not sure, then refer them to another officer: "Y'know, that sounds fair to me but you're a friend of mine and I'm not terribly objective where you're concerned. Why don't we run it past (Officer X) and see if they agree?".
If your gut says that some action perhaps ISN'T fair or reasonable, then trust your gut: "I'd like to, if it was just a matter of you and me, but there are 74 other people in the guild that need to know that the same standards apply to everyone, I'm sorry I just can't help you out here."
You also need to understand that
a) some people are going to expect special favors, and
b) some people are not going to accept your reasonable answer, and are going to throw a hissy fit. That is NOT YOUR PROBLEM. You do the right thing, make the decisions that you can sleep with, knowing you made the right choice, and move on.
A wise man once told me that I should always conduct myself as if I'm being recorded. (This was long, long before today where it could very well be true no matter where you are.) It's a decent principle to follow, particularly if you're in a position of authority.
It's not just about BEING consistent and fair, it's about bending over backwards to make sure that everyone to whom you're responsible SEES that is what you're doing, and doing it every time for consistency.
Tirrimas Apr 7th 2009 11:57AM
^ this this this
It's possible to draw a line between "friend-role" and "officer-role" and remain supportive of both. Sometimes those roles might disagree, but as long as the friend knows you're doing it because of a responsibility to the guild (but that you're empathetic to their position), they'll either understand, or take their manipluation elsewhere.
It's possible to bring guildmates' concerns to the GM and the other officers - it's part of the job. Just be sure to communicate objectively on both ends. "There's a concern that this is going on - can you explain our policy?" "The officers decided to take this action." Most people, if given a reasonable explanation, will be reasonable in turn.
Also, the point about others SEEING your behavior is very important. Guild members need to SEE that you support the other officers and the good of the guild over personal considerations via forum posts or comments in gchat.
(Never been a GL, but have been in similar positions in groups outside WoW. Never again.)
eric_barbaric Apr 6th 2009 3:46PM
When I'm in a situation like that, and I was there to witness what was going on, I make a judgement call about who I agree with. I'm up front with everyone involve with how I feel and why I feel that way, and it seems to avoid any drama. If I am not there to witness the said problem, and a friend is complaining to me how this officer was too hard on him, I simply tell him that I know the officer very well in game and well as in real life, and that he's a very fair and stand up kind of guy. If he came down on you hard, he probably had good reason to, or else he would have been more lenient. That's just my personal experience though.
sturob Apr 6th 2009 4:05PM
Interesting letter . . . the real problem is not hers, it's rather that her friends and guild-subordinates don't respect the hierarchy.
Secondly . . . I agree with the other responders that her English is perfectly understandable, even if she may be thinking in another language. However, be careful how you create acronyms. ANO is Spanish for "rectum." Or ass.
Stuart
Beli Apr 6th 2009 4:14PM
This certainly can be a difficult situation, and not just in-game - it also arises in "real life". Being an officer, you need to be clear with your members when you're acting as an officer. A lot of the time we spend playing, officers aren't much different from everyone else - they're out there grinding rep, or joking around in guild chat or vent, and you certainly don't want to lose that. I find the easiest way to go about that is to be explicit when i'm acting as an officer. I start out by saying something like "I hope this doesn't affect our friendship, but i've been asked to talk to you as an officer about your healing last night".
I would strongly support the concept of keeping comments to members general - if you start saying "well, so-and-so said his dead grandma can heal better than you", all you'll do is create a division in the guild. Do that often enough, and you'll have half the guild not talking to the other half, and it'll break apart.
So instead try to provide constructive criticism from what the officers talk about. From our earlier example, you could say "We were wiping a ton in the raid last night, and we were hoping you could step it up and try some more proactive healing tonight". Whenever possible, try to use that "royal we" to include all the officers.
When someone wants to complain to you about a situation that has already been decided by the officers, like the situation described by the writer, it's important that the officers stick together. One of the worst things you can do is tell someone you don't agree with the other officers decision - if you get too much of that, you'll break the guild into multiple groups and it'll fall apart. If you feel someone has a legitimate complaint, support the officers by explaining how it looked to you, and tell them you'll bring up the new information with the other officers.
And as always, reinforce you're guilds key strengths and what you're trying to build towards - hardcore raiding, casual friendly environment, whatever.
zappo Apr 6th 2009 4:48PM
"But, I'm this kind of person that cares for the people, I want to stand up and have a fair treatment"
I honestly don't believe that is going to work out too well. Being fair is of course important, but in doing so you will make enemies. Also you may find that caring for people may not be in the best interest of being an officer who's priority is to be fair and do what is in the best interest of the guild. Do you have what it takes to argue with a friend over guild matters and tell them they're wrong? Do you have what it takes to actually boot a friend from a guild? That's theoretical of course, but you have to ask yourself if you really want that responsibility hanging over your head. You may want to pass on being an officer, so think about what position it puts you in.
Also real friends don't ask for favoritism. People who do are just using you.
Ilnara Apr 6th 2009 4:57PM
First issue I see is that ANO wants the conflict to 'end' at what the Officers decide. But that is never where it ends as I think they are sadly finding out.
Best practice is to be honest and diplomatic. Remind them of THEIR duty to the guild's rules and officers. They want favors and they want your favor, they need to do something for you. This is when you use their patronage to the guild, the rules, and the officers to ask them for their patience and understanding in guild matters, especially in regards to the rules and how differently people interpret them.
This should be the 'very least' any "friend" would do for another.
Angus Apr 6th 2009 5:43PM
"We've had complaints about your behavior. You need to tone it down or we'll have to do something to show that it is unacceptable."
"Who complained."
"Doesn't matter."
"It does to me. I have a right to face my accuser. I don't think my behavior was bad."
"And I am telling you this isn't a court of law, I agree you were being an ass-hat and you need to shut your mouth and listen or the next thing I type begins with /gkick."
"um.... I'm sorry?"
"Better."
Eid Apr 6th 2009 6:45PM
It doesn't always work, but I find myself having multiple personalities as a GM. Usually prefacing comments like 'As Eid I think this....., but as GM I think this..... is actually more suitable'.
Other tips I'd give are keep /o (and forums) confidential, even to friends. People need to be able to trust you. I also keep confidences given to me by guildies from officers if asked. I will paraphrase and try to generalise comments if it's appropriate. But sometimes you just need to say, I am sorry, but I just can't discus that.
An other (sad) piece of advice is to get something like 'Elephant' for recording all your conversations... sure it can be edited. but even if you just take it as a reminded for yourself having a record is so handy. (it's also good for keeping an eye on missed whispers when you're dealing with 20,000,000 other things!)
Being an officer is (generally) a thankless task so u guys have to stick together and (at least publicly) back eachother up 100%. In /o sure u can be frank but if the guild senses blood they'll go for it. Once the officer group has reached a decision you should not only stick to it. but embrace it as your own.
There are some good things about being an officer too of course, personally I love it when I can promote people :D Or kick them out of the guild because they're a gnome.... :P
Eid
syi Apr 7th 2009 2:08AM
I always hated being the good guy on vent, the bad guy in guildchat and the one to patch things up in raids. but im MIA for the time beign due to life and staying up to date with my guild is so very hard
sinthar Apr 7th 2009 4:25AM
As an officer, i too have had similar situations. My best advice is if the person really is a friend, they will not put you into conflict of interest situations. When i was promoted to officer, i am still friends with everyone, but they understand i will be official when its called for. Its a question of personal integrity, imo. Your friendships are fine to carry on, as long as they understand you MUST be impartial when i comes to officer decisions. Any deviation CAN lead to compromises and that leads to big problems. That straight and narrow path may seem hard to walk, but slipping down either side of it is a far worse path to tread, and leads to lots more problems.
FoxOfWar Apr 7th 2009 5:26AM
I think one part of the problem is having only gm and two officers. When things get ugly, and officers start disagreeing with each other, it often helps to have others around who are officers as well, but outside the argument.
As an officer myself, I can't always please everyone - that's just the way things go. But I try and keep myself levelheaded, understanding and all things considered do what's "fair." Sometimes on our loot council system, newer members who don't quite grasp the system works(since they cba read our guild forums...) seem like they are about to start tantrums if they don't get an item they wanted. We have a rule of "one item of every boss(25man) goes to an already well-geared member" (so we get geared for Ulduar, as our core is only missing item here, another there for the most part). We haven't had any straight complaints about it, but it can be read between the lines for few of our newer members - they don't like it.
Bottom line: can't please everyone. But by being honest, straightforward in your decisions, and not favoring anyone, you get along much better as guild. If your friends want you to abuse your position as an officer, consider do you really want that. If they are your friends, they will understand if you decline to do "officer favors" for them. When you are doing officer business, do it as an officer would - from the standpoint of relations with each other, everyone should be equal.
Favor people based on what they do for the guild, and not based on what they do for you.
tubbysmith Apr 7th 2009 12:56PM
Always keep leadership separate from personal stuff.
If anyone has to be "talked to", make sure it is not with one officer. Raiders will often try to play one officer against another to get the answer they want. It is VERY important that they hear the same message coming from leadership at the same time.
I have a been the GM of a 25 man raid guild since '06. People/officers have come and gone, but we get the content dead and take care of business. If people get butt hurt or are emo's they are shown the door.
Missanthropy Apr 7th 2009 1:17PM
There is an additional point that is subtle, but very important.
If officer X is involved in the original conflict, officer Y should be responsible for closure.
"The officers have discussed your issues. You need more work on your tanking skills if you want to be part of our A-team."
Mordorlay Apr 7th 2009 3:44PM
Reading over the situation (and the majority of the comments), a lot of people have made very fair points.
Presently I am one of the founding members and council members (our guild is council-based, with GM being passed amongst us) of my guild. We don't have a huge number base, which is how I want to keep things for the time being. We presently have two active secretaries (junior officers) that are the liason between guild members progress and the councillors (stats, etc). Every officer is considered a raid leader, and our 25-man content is a joint raid with our sister guild.
Given this, I have come to one major conclusion when it comes to our raids and our guild - Friends are friends, business is business. I have friends in the guild that I know in real life. I will continue to be their friends, no matter the circumstance. However I have separated my friendliness from my duties in the guild.
I believe everyone has pretty well stated what to do in the above example. However I would recommend perhaps taking a new approach when it comes to guild/officer matters. Treat the guild like a company of sorts. If a member is doing something that can potentially hurt the company (guild), then you need to ensure that the company's best interests are in mind before all else.
I found it the best way to approach situations where you have to reprimand friends for various things. And should your intentions to do this be made clear prior to any incident, you'll find that your friends and members will respect your decisions more as an officer.