Dedicated dual wield tree for Death Knights a possibility
by Alex Ziebart 
Apr 7th 2009 at 7:00PM
A few days ago, Bornakk responded to yet another thread regarding dual wielding for Death Knights. I read it, shrugged, moved on with life, but I found myself digging up the thread again because I started to warm up to the idea Bornakk put forth: They're considering (that's the key word here) "something like making the frost tree the dual-wield tree" and letting the strikes hit with both weapons like Mutilate and Stormstrike.Bornakk says balancing both Dual Wielding and 2Handers in each talent tree has been exceptionally challenging, and I think we've seen that firsthand. Talents aimed for one build make their way into another, and things quickly get out of hand. Turning one of the trees specifically into the Dual Wielding tree (whether it be Frost or Unholy or whatever) is something I can get behind, even if it runs counter to what they've been trying to do with the talent trees since the Wrath beta.
Allowing all three talent trees to tank and DPS depending on point allocation isn't that much of a stretch, but I think that trying to make them great tanking trees, dual wielding trees, and 2H trees does stretch things a little thin. Having one dedicated Dual Wield tree along with dedicated 2Hander trees would probably make the individual specs stronger overall in the long run.
I admit that it would probably suck to be the Death Knight that loves the 2Handed Frost play style and gets that pulled out from under them because it became the dual wield tree, but I still can't help but feel it would be better for the overall design of the class. Assuming they can keep Dual Wielding and using a 2Hander roughly equal as far as DPS goes, anyway.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Death Knight
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Lemons Apr 7th 2009 7:05PM
Noes! Every spec should be able to do everything all the time!
wait, what?
Karma Apr 7th 2009 7:09PM
"I admit that it would probably suck to be the Death Knight that loves the 2Handed Frost play style and gets that pulled out from under them"
Speaking as a 2H Frost Tank, yes it would.
I'm open to new ideas, so long as they gave us a chance to be equivalent in abilities this wouldn't be bad.
As my guilds MT tho, if we see a drop in threat/avoidance etc, it'd be pretty disastrous.
Kassu Apr 8th 2009 2:58AM
I will quit wow if they do this...
Genotek Apr 7th 2009 7:14PM
My only concern would be as a Frost tank. I'm not a big fan of DW tanking as it stands. If they change Frost to the DW tree, would that alter the tanking play-style enough to screw 2h Frost tanking?
Koso Apr 7th 2009 7:27PM
I dunno, I don't think there would be anything wrong with dps imbalance as long as there was a trade off of something else.
I mean we see tree spec specializations all the time with clear purpose, the hybrid classes are the perfect example, now granted they are hybrid for that exact purpose, but with dual specs coming out, pure classes are not getting that much bang for thier buck, unless you are needing a pvp spec and a raid spec.
Right now there isn't much variance on trees with regards to DK's they are all threat mogers, they all are very strong against other classes. outside of personal choices there isn't much of one over the other.
Sure frost is the prefered tanking spec, but i've had blood tanks, unholy tanks, and they've all done well since i'm sure it had more to do with the player than the spec.
I think i've forgoten what i wanted to say.
I'm all for a dual wield spec tree. so you would have Blood, the 2h's/healing spec, frost the dual wielding something tree (tanking or dpsing whateve they decide), and the unholy super ghoul spec (read as the dk equiv of bm hunter).
....Ok that's it i'm being tangential.
Koso Apr 7th 2009 7:27PM
Didn't Blizz already say they would prefer to have dk's tank with 2h'ers over dual wield.
Maybe in reference to my last post, unholy gets the Dual wield dps. and frost becomes a 2h tanking spec.
I dunno ....again i forget.
Karilyn Apr 7th 2009 7:32PM
I believe they were refering to DW DPS only.
Because I've seen several ghostcrawler posts that indicate that they don't really intend for Death Knights to be able to DW tank.
It's like...
Duel Wield DPS
2-hand DPS
2-hand tank
Duel Wield Tanking will be nerfed as is needed in order to make sure it doesn't happen.
At least that's what I last heard.
Angus Apr 7th 2009 7:44PM
You don't have to nerf DW tanking, it does so automatically.
-19% hit means your threat took a massive hit.
If you get enough hit to make up for that, you gimped your defensive stats.
I'll ignore the "parry haste problem" as it isn't that bad.
The first two are bad enough that most tanks aren't looking at DW much. I know a DK that tried it. The DPS yelled at him for not holding above someone he normally stays ahead of by a large margin.
perderedeus Apr 7th 2009 7:21PM
Let Frost be the DW tree. DK's can tank and DPS in any of their trees at this point, so they're not limited in that regard. I don't think anyone will really shed any tears over Frost going dual-wield.
AyaJulia Apr 8th 2009 2:34AM
The comments just above yours shows that people -would- indeed be miffed if Frost went DW-only. Don't make such assumptions.
For tanking in particular, DW requires a lot more expertise to make it work and prevents a tank from using the Rune of the Stoneskin Gargoyle. These are pretty major impacts on a tank, and you can't really just tell them to find another tree to tank with; frost tanks often have deliberately chosen that tree for specific reasons. Unholy, for example, tends to have slower threat generation (especially AoE threat) but more mitigation tools to compensate. If your group is well-off in gear, you don't need the mitigation, you need the threat.
Hopefully if they DO dedicate the DW talents to the frost tree, they leave the tree in such a shape that frost tanks aren't going to be required to DW to perform at peak.
Mindreaver Apr 8th 2009 9:10AM
Hopefully people will actually read this who are DKs and who don't want to DW tank as frost.
Frost is actually the only DK spec that allows DW tanking right now.
Yes, parry-hasted is bad. But without Crushing blows, this is MUCH less of a problem (in fact, I'd even say that crushing blows were the only reason that a parry haste was a problem at all).
Also, consider that ALL of your major special abilities that generate threat (Runestrike, Frost Strike, HB, IT) cannot be parried. Why does this matter? Because you might actually have LESS chance to be parried as frost dw then a warrior tank.
Warriors damage are all parry-able strikes. Heroic strike, devastate, shield slam, all of them can be parried.
Every time I see that "DW DKs are bad for tanking" I get so mad, because people don't actually do their research. They cling to this outdated BC thinking.
Now, you DO miss out on stoneskin gargolye. The only replacement is +2% parry on each weapon. But if you can get to the defense cap with SG enchant, dw is just fine.
shystechris Apr 7th 2009 7:22PM
That's not a bad idea....
Doing something like placing DW talents deep within one of the trees *cough* frost, would further separate the distinctness of each tree... that could lead to a boost to frost dps, and still allow threat generation for frost 2H tanking. /Win
Eddy Apr 7th 2009 7:23PM
I find myself thinking things like, 'wow, I'm so glad I never played my DK all that seriously because I'm glad I don't have to keep track of things like this' but then I generally read this kind of information and fret over it for other classes I do play. ...well, at least my main's class. I think some of the classes (any of the healing hybrids, anyway) have more obvious goals in mind for the three specs and its easier to keep track of (I know my priest will always be shadow for leveling and then holy at cap, for example, but there's always some squabble in how a class with closer trees, like the hunter or rogue or something, will end up speccing.)
Raymond Apr 7th 2009 7:32PM
I don't know if I like that idea, although I think it would be preferable to eliminating DW viability all together. One of the things I really like about my DK is that it gives you so many options as far as mixing and matching talents goes. I love my 32/39 build. I think having a tanking tree, a 2H dps tree, a DW tree etc would make the class much more boring, as the versatility of play styles is what makes the class so much fun.
RetadinMan Apr 7th 2009 7:38PM
And OP....
Fierna Apr 7th 2009 7:31PM
I am just imagining the tears that might stem from Death Knight's being told they cannot roll on a possible Legendary Frostmourne sword from Arthas because it wouldn't be "main spec"
arrogance Apr 7th 2009 10:30PM
lol. that would so suck. FROST spec dk can't roll on FROSTmourne cause its the dw tree.
im fine with it limited to one tree. but for me unholy seems like the better choice. keep frost 2handed.
Darthdk Apr 8th 2009 12:02AM
they could just use dual-specing and switch to a 2h spec right when it drops. =PP
ulveig Apr 7th 2009 7:36PM
I'm a frost DK who loves the 2H playstyle. I'd go blood if that ended up happening, I suppose.
tonedeff Apr 7th 2009 7:39PM
Why not give them Titan Grip
DKs need to duel weild 2h axes!!!!!!! there not op enough