The Care and Feeding of Warriors: Waiting for the patch

So then, if we`re not going to talk about that (well, I guess we just did) then what are we going to talk about?
This past couple of weeks, I've been experimenting with tanking in my standard fury spec. One of the effects of patch 3.1 and dual specs that I hadn't considered until then was that I would most likely have a DPS spec and a tanking spec, both optimized, and therefore I'd probably never try to tank in an offspec again. When asked to offtank in a raid or even to MT for one reason or another, I wouldn't try and do it in fury or arms, I'd use my dual spec and swap over to prot, with prot glyphs ready to go. And while this is on the whole a good and positive change, I'm stubborn and crazy enough to look back on my long and storied (well, long anyway) career and all the times I've tanked in an arms or fury spec, something I will probably never do again come 3.1.
Up until BC launched, in fact, I often tanked as arms or fury. My standard raiding spec back before BC was either 31/5/15 or a deep fury DW build that didn't even go the 15 in prot for Defiance. Back then, the extra threat from Defiance wasn't even strictly seen as necessary. Sure, if you were going to go deep prot to MT for a guild you'd pick it up, but a lot of warriors didn't even bother. I realize now that saying "I main tanked up to C'thun as 31/5/15" is the old warrior's version of saying "We walked uphill both ways in the snow" nowadays, but it's still accurate. I didn't go prot until we were working on Naxxramas 40. Back when I was seriously considering swapping my human for an NE warrior on a different server, I ran a lot of instances as pure fury as a tank, working the rotations as best I could figure out for holding threat.
So for the past few weeks, as we've moved from farming to complete and total annihilation of the current raiding content, I've been playing with tanking as fury again. It's fair to say that a fury DPS spec isn't really anywhere as good as a tanking spec as a dedicated prot spec, and I wouldn't recommend that your average TG warrior just slap on a shield and wear his DPS blues into the heroics (much less 10 or 25 man raids) but in general I've been successful, tanking up to Kel'Thuzad with a fury spec. This is the spec I've been using alliance side, while on my tauren I've played with this spec as well as this arms spec. (The Arms spec I'm using is not my main Arms DPS spec.) I use Mace Spec because I have the Split Greathammer as my tanking weapon.
So far I'm finding both the fury and arms specs have their ups and downs. Bladestorm is actually a lot of fun to use as an AoE tanking tool, and when I'm fury tanking I enjoy using a 2h weapon (usually The Jawbone) and a shield. I find tactical mastery makes fury tanking easier (you can switch stances for a Retaliation in multi-mob pulls more easily as well as get more threat out of those high-rage Bloodthirsts) and that I'm weaving Shield Slam, Revenge and instant-cast Slams into my tanking rotation. To be fair, it helps immensely if you can get a hunter to misdirect whenever its up or a rogue to cast Tricks of the Trade on you (we have a rogue who has me as her focus when I'm tanking so she can more easily ToT me - I always try and time a thunder clap and shield slam or Bloodsurge Slam for when I see the jacknife over my head) and it generally is the case that DPS has to take it easier on me when I'm not specced prot, but with Challenging Shout I can usually grab peels pretty easily and everything's dead by the time it wears off.
With the basic threat baked into Defensive Stance, the real liability of a non-standard tanking spec is all the tricks that you lose from protection. No Vigilance, no Shockwave, no Devastate, no charging in combat (you can stance switch for an Intercept and Intervene is still available, of course), none of the added magic reduction of Improved Defensive, the excellent multi-mob utility of Damage Shield, your base block value is lower due to your loss of Shield Mastery and you can only Shield Block once a minute instead of once every 40 seconds. It's fair to ask why anyone would want to tank without the plethora of goodness that protection provides a tank.
For myself, it's been partially nostalgia, partially the awesome factor of getting to tank with a 2h and a shield and play with new spec ideas that I may never use (this one is getting a test run today in Naxx - 10) and partially pure stubbornness. I would never recommend that anyone sign up to tank for a raid in a spec like this, especially if your guild doesn't know you're doing it and doesn't ridiculously outgear the run. I've had the benefit of tolerant guildmates who've been willing to do heroics and raids with me while I've played with these specs, I wouldn't foist off my bizarre fury tanking ideas as we head into Ulduar. And with dual specs, frankly, I don't imagine I'll ever be asked to switch to tank gear for a couple of bosses ever again without switching to a prot spec with the proper glyphs all set and ready to go. For one thing, with the Titan's Grip changes, why would I tank with a 2h weapon and a shield and reduce the damage of my Thunder Clap, Shield Slam, and Revenge by 10%? (I'm pretty sure that's got nothing at all to do with that change, just saying.)
But to a degree that's another reason why I'm so interested in playing with this now. First off, I may never have such a perfect storm of bored guildmates who've gotten all of the gear and achievements they want willing to just try out weird things like this. Secondly, one of my big concerns with 3.1 and the rise of dual specs (and the rumors of triple specs in the future) is that we're going to lose a little bit of that spirit of "Heck, let's just try it" that has led to me finding myself in tanking gear on Malygos because our MT disconnected and couldn't get back on and no one wanted to wait for me to hearth and respec and come back.
With the advent of patch 3.1, this is probably your last chance to really mess around until Ulduar is on farm. Why not take advantage of it? In a couple of months you'll be dual specced anyway, this is the last real chance you have to take yourself out and see just how hard you can fold, spindle or mutilate that DPS spec. For that matter, slap on some DPS gear and see how high you can get your Shield Slam crits: there's no reason tanks can't play around as DPS, too. Properly geared, you may never match a dedicated DPS warrior, but you can still have some fun. And with us all waiting for new content, you have to have fun where and when you can.
Filed under: Warrior, Patches, Analysis / Opinion, Odds and ends, (Warrior) The Care and Feeding of Warriors






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
The Claw Apr 11th 2009 8:07PM
Just for a change, Matthew, how about a nice whine about how badly warriors are getting nerfed and how horrible Blizzard is? That'd be refreshing.
snifit Apr 11th 2009 8:44PM
You wait for his first post in weeks that isn't QQ and then give him shit for QQing? Classy.
bigdaddyjay Apr 11th 2009 9:10PM
@snifit...
I don't know how you couldn't smell the sarcasm in that first post. Rossi ain't no troll, troll.
jimonaxe Apr 11th 2009 8:34PM
@the claw
IDD! Just what I'd enjoy and what I've been hoping for every week; a well written, thorough qq article on blizz nerfing and unbalancing our class.
wizeguy Apr 11th 2009 8:58PM
So I was tanking Gothic dead-side last night in Naxx ten.
I don't know why it was, but it seemed like we were getting a new knight add every three seconds or so. Normally in 25 this isn't a problem because there would be another tank there to pick them up, as well as another healer just in case.
But last night, I just couldn't do it. I would thunderclap to build up my threat, and then a knight would run in. Or one of the riders would spawn, and the horse would run way ahead of the rider, forcing me to burn a thunderclap and then my shockwave in order to get them both. When I didn't have it up, I had to tab madly in order to taunt the new add before it could smash our squishy priest. We nearly got to the second phase, but I just couldn't keep up, eventually a knight ran in while thunderclap was on cooldown, there was too many mobs in the way for me to be able to taunt it, cleave was soaked up by the mobs that I was already tanking, and I had already used shockwave and challenging shout. The knight ran up and one-shotted the priest.
What annoyed me is that there was just nothing I could have done, save for altering my strategy to accomodate about thirty seconds before the mob spawned. At least when I thunderclap and crit, deep wounds gives me some steady threat until I can clap again, but the problem is that warriors lack steady aoe threat generation. Come next patch, every other class will have spammable aoe that they can use to pick up and control adds easily. Paladins and Death knights just plop down their consecrate/ DnD then sit back and laugh while it ticks every second, picking up everything that walks into it.
I switched sides with the paladin tank, to the live side and tanked it easily because the adds come in predictable waves, and each wave I could get everything inside the range of one thunderclap and start cleaving.
Personally, I would be willing to trade a huge nerf to thunderclap's damage in exchange for a reduction of its cooldown. What are your thoughts on this?
Manatank Apr 12th 2009 1:16AM
"What are your thoughts on this?"
Paladins should be on the dead side.
spork Apr 12th 2009 4:34AM
Maybe you should have told the guys on the living side to ease up while you regain control on the UD side. They can control how fast the mobs cross over after all.
Had similar situation yesterday with a paladin tank on undead side, me as warrior on living. This was an alt run, and gear quality was all over the place; we ended up getting too much DPS on living side.
Angus Apr 12th 2009 11:56AM
manatank: Yep. He answered his own question/QQ.
Wizeguy: Even as a tankadin I have issues if the live side people are being idiots. I'll say, live slow down and no one listens. We get murdered if they don't.
If they are showing up to the point where you can't hold em, then the live side is being overzealous. I have to do things like BoP the healer and constantly have a taunt ready or exorcism.
If you think that consecrate is holding aggro on everything when a 10K healing crit happens you are very mistaken. Heck, with aoe happening, I can lose threat easily just because my consecrate ticks are nothing compared to the threat the mages/locks are making.
Don't warriors have intercept, intervene, and vigilance to assist with stuff like that?
Ragebüll Apr 13th 2009 1:43PM
Sounds like DPS was too heavy on live side. For the Knight adds I save Revenge or Shield Slam for them. The lesser adds can take Thunderclap and Demo shout.
Then again, I've only tanked live side. We put slightly heavier DPS on the dead side to finish off the adds.
token Apr 11th 2009 9:29PM
It just sounds like your DPS between live/dead was unbalanced. Live side was killing their adds quicker then the DPS on dead side could handle.
Holty Apr 11th 2009 10:21PM
@ the Claw. Good game being 1st post here. I also love to spend my weekends surfing the WoW blogs, trolling the comment section with my pointless and nonsensicle B.S........ I actually like to read the care and feeding of warriors, whether I agree with everything the guy writes or not doesn't mean I'm going to post dip shit commentary in response - so do us all a favor and stick it up your ass.
P.S.- your sarcasm sucks
JB95 Apr 12th 2009 1:21AM
@Holty
God what a little bitch lawl.
Ulises Apr 12th 2009 1:19AM
For some of us, "fun" means a speedy and efficient run. A run with zero downtime and no wipes or deaths. If you get off-spec gear, great, if not, at least you can sell more badge wrist items.
If I wanted to have fun in-game, I'd just play with RL friends and drink lots with them. Maybe pvp in my pve spec and gear...
If WoW is that boring, then I may have to check myself into an addict's clinic or something if I play a boring game just to play...Or not play WoW and enjoy more RL...
But then again, I AM a casual, so what do I know.
JamieG Apr 12th 2009 4:21AM
You basically summed everything I was going to say up before I got the chance. I've never understood why people complain that they're bored in WoW. The way I see it, you have two options:-
1. Roll an alt, PvP, reroll faction on another server, do something -other- than sit around in Dalaran and wait for a raid.
Or
2. Don't play the game. Play something else, or enjoy your life outside of the game. If you're guild has everything on super farm status, and you dread the thought of another Naxx 25 speed run on the weekend, go out with friends.
Job done, you're not bored!
thebitterfig Apr 12th 2009 9:38AM
i totally disagree. there is a certain sort of mindset that has a lot of fun trying to do the same things in different ways, and you shouldn't discount that. the best example are the melee hunters. not idiots who start shooting and melee once the mob runs up to them, but those hunters who intentionally never shoot their weapons. why? for the fun and challenge of doing it in a different way. for some people, they're playing WoW, but they aren't playing the same game.
arms/fury tanking is sort of another way of doing this. it is both making the most of a situation, but it is the challenge of squeezing every last drop of juice out of something that wasn't really intended to be juiced. and that can be a lot of fun. it isn't a question of boredom with the normal game, but a unique kind of fun from pushing a different set of limits.
you wouldn't say "go roll another toon" to someone who was into hardcore raiding the normal way, trying to get faster and faster boss kills. don't say it to someone just who wants to explore unusual possibilities in the game. of course, that doesn't mean you have to let them into your raids. :D
JamieG Apr 12th 2009 10:21AM
Clearly my point wasn't made clear enough, so I apologise. I'm not saying that people trying to do things differently should quit the game, I'm saying people that do the same thing again and again for no reason other than to have Naxx cleared for that week need to reconsider their leisure time.
"I may never have such a perfect storm of bored guildmates who've gotten all of the gear and achievements they want willing to just try out weird things like this."
To me, that sounds like, "All my guildmates are bored with the game but are still clearing raids each week for the sake of it."
Many of the recent posts on WoWInsider have been about patch 3.1 taking too long to be released, and we're only left with the current end game content being treated like a massive joke.
Yet people are still playing, still sitting around Dalaran waiting for a raid, still doing their dailies, in a game they're saying they're bored with.
Maybe if people weren't so elitest and against anyone that takes the game casually, then they wouldn't be blitzing through everything in one evening and sitting around until the reset next week. People that complain about the end game content should just stop doing it, surely?
Ulises Apr 12th 2009 12:17PM
Perhaps I should just note, for the record :) that gimping yourself in order to achieve something new is fine and dandy. Whether it'd be healing a 10 man as an Ele Shamie or leveling to 80 using no weapons on a rogue...what have you.
What bothers me is the player forcing himself to find ways to make the game fun for them, after openly admitting they are bored with said game.
Furthermore, trying to achieve something "new" after it's been proven to be less efficient than every other way, it's just disturbing. It's like making achievements for yourself, but with no rewards except your own knowledge of having achieved them. And in a Multi-Player game where the hardest part of the game can only be beaten with other players...
New Achievement Raid!
Let's do 25man Nax with tanks that only wear Capes and weapons! Oh, and every time we pull, we all have to scream "For Sparta!" else we have to wipe cuz it won't count!
I'm sleepy, sorry if I make no sense, it's hard to be coherent right before sweet bed...
Zoe Apr 13th 2009 9:43AM
Well, what's wrong with that? After all when you were a kid and played outside didn't you make up your own games. This is a multiplayer game enjoyed with friends. And doing silly stuff that isnt' a part of the game has no impact on anyone else.
And as long as you're having fun that's what counts doesn't it :P
Slowthar Apr 12th 2009 7:27AM
Just to bump on the nostalgia a little bit, I remember working through BWL pre-2.0 and joking about how we knew when not to accept a tank app because they were spec'd prot.
From 2.0 to 3.0, the name of the game with prot was "I can tank like a mofo but my toon is absolutely useless." Any truly dedicated tank had to have 2 toons -- their prot warrior and a toon for farming consumable mats.
So I think it's worth mentioning here that in 3.0, Blizzard did a hell of a job making a prot warrior fun but not gimped. They gave us a reasonable ratio of damage to survivability without taking the tank feeling away from the toon. While there's still a whole slew of little things that would be nice to have fixed across the warrior class, I think tanking since 3.0 is an absolute blast.
dankill Apr 12th 2009 7:38AM
dude,
are you getting paid for writing this crap? seriously...