Crygil wants to know what you think of class roles
CM Crygil has posted a very general thread over on the forums asking players what they think of the various class roles out there: "Ranged/Melee/DPS, Tanking and Healing." As you probably have noticed, those three roles make up what are often called the Holy Trinity in role-playing games and MMOs: either you do damage, prevent damage, or recover from damage, and those three roles make up the basics of most roleplaying combat systems, including the battles in World of Warcraft.But as quite a few people in the thread say, they're not quite sure just why Crygil is asking for this information. Sure, there are lots of good and informative answers in here (most people actually spread out "the trinity" to four roles, splitting melee/close combat and ranged/magic combat into two parts), but as there has always been, there's really nothing outside of the kind of thinking that's been done before on the subject -- anytime developers try to break out a new part of the trinity of roles, they either fall right back into the stereotypes (a bard that casts magic damage "songs" is really just a dressed up Mage), or they end up breaking the game (mind control/crowd controller is a new class idea that's been played around with before, but as Blizzard has discovered, it's extremely hard to balance that exactly right).
As Crygil later says, these questions are his, not Blizzard's -- he just wants to get some perspective on what the forums dwellers think of how the current roles work. And he promises that CC is "on its way back," so maybe Blizzard will try to do some more experimenting with the different types of roles classes can play.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Virtual selves, Odds and ends, Blizzard, Forums






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Drakkenfyre Apr 13th 2009 8:07PM
"Green Wizard needs food, badly!"
Eisengel Apr 14th 2009 7:08AM
"Use keys to open doors!"
really? wow..
Fenrix Apr 15th 2009 1:15AM
Red Warrior has shot food.
Leandar Apr 13th 2009 8:10PM
Hmm, im all for bringing CC back into heroics(im guessing thats what he means) but the problem is then why bring a class that dosent have decent CC? DPS warriors or enhance shammies had difficulty gettting into groups then because the group wanted 3 CC.
jaenicoll Apr 13th 2009 10:29PM
Moar utility for the pure dps classes is what the game needs, especially in light of dual specs imo. Hybrid classes bring utility to the game by being able to swop roles dependent upon raid needs or even from one boss to the next during a raid.
The dps classes can, well they can bring moar dps to the current game and dats about it. It seems that Blizzard has forgotten all about utility and is at last recognising this (maybe only partially). Hopefully we will see more utility added to the game via abilities and in the form of encounters.
Classic utility:
Buffs & Debuffs
CC
De-curse
Replenishment
Threat acceleration - Mis-direct, Soul Shatter
Raid Recovery - Soul Stone, BoP
Nom nom - Food, water and Health stones
...
It would be nice to see the 4 dps classes get more and balanced amounts of utility. However, right now it seems Warlocks have the most and rogues have the least with Mages and Hunters in the middle.
Come on Blizzard bring back some thinking and team work to the game. I am royally bored of AoE pew pew and blunt encounters.
Kakistocracy Apr 13th 2009 8:13PM
How about a class that is really good at eating?
Hoggersbud Apr 13th 2009 8:21PM
All classes must be able to do anything!
Cragdog Apr 14th 2009 11:15AM
Bingo. Best suggestion EVER!!!! Having to be pigeon-holed into a class is very limiting. Loose the chains of "roles". Sometimes I feel like a tank, sometimes a nut! (apologies to the Almond Joy candy bar.) The other best suggestion I have read recently (probably in wowinsider, I think) was after a guy hits lvl 55 let him start any sort of char at 55. Maybe combine the two suggestions!!!
Thank you, Hoggersbud!!!! Really.
Unico Apr 13th 2009 8:26PM
Rogue-tanks are back =D
shaman22 Apr 13th 2009 8:51PM
Although it's probably been talked about, I would like to say that the holy trinity of healer, tank, dps should go through some kind of change. Namely, that of the role of a healer. I personally do not know a single healer that actually likes healing. They have been forced into the role by their guild or the sheer necessity of needing to offspec heal in order to get into dungeon runs. I'm sure there are a few people out that like healing, but seriously, what percentage of the community does that comprise? I'm guessing very little. The problem with this is finding groups to run dungeons with. It seems that about 9 out of 10 times a group for a raid or dungeon is held back, its by trying to find people to heal. Every other type of game has some type of regenerative healing system, or health packs, so why not mmo's? Would the very few people that like healing actually quit playing MMO's if they had to deal damage, or had some other type of roll to fill? I doubt it.
I have a suggestion. In whatever form wow 2 takes, do away with healing as a class. Instead,. get creative with types of classes available depending on gaming style. Have the dps/heavy armored classes for dungeons and raiding and, perhaps, have a civilian class selection. Maybe someone wants to be the richest trader in the land , or the best crafter. Have classes that can just specialize in crafting or......whatever. In fact two of the healers I know would love something like this. They prefer the social aspects of the game much more than downing bosses or seeing raids. They come because their pressured into it.
Catiya of Feathermoon Apr 13th 2009 9:08PM
I'm sorry, but you have not met very good healers, then. Every good healer I've ever met loves healing. I happen to adore my job of being a healer, so please don't sterotype us has hating our role.
Daniel Apr 13th 2009 9:08PM
See my comment immediately posted right below yours. You and I are addressing I think the same concern but from different angles. Perhaps its not surprising then that I am one of the people who likes to heal. On of the most disappointing things about the Achievement system when it came out was that there were no achievements for professions (other than dinging a level) and none whatsoever for playing the auction house.
I actually do like to raid, but I'm not obsessed with it. I can spend hours "farming" the AH and have just as much fun as I can killing things. To be short and sweet, I think Blizzard needs to offer more opportunities for people who aren't "button mashers".
Eric Apr 13th 2009 9:10PM
Are you serious? I love healing and there are many in my guild who agree.
Actually when my guild started naxx we we're short dps and not healers
Saelorn Apr 13th 2009 9:33PM
I don't know who else here has experience with tabletop gaming, but "getting rid of healer as a class" is something that they did with the new edition of Dungeons and Dragons. They did it by making clerics attack (the equivalent of smite) and letting that cure status effects or create a damage shield.
The upshot of that is that, where a priest in WoW can actually cast a shield spell which will always prevent some damage, a cleric in D&D has to throw a fireball that has a 50% chance of missing (in which case you prevent no damage). If you try to make a priest more fun by making it more like a mage, then you'll make it less fun by making it less like a priest.
Aside from class homogenization, and aside from the RP perspective, some people just don't like the "feel" of a damage-dealing class. Granted, more people like hurting than healing, but that's why a raid needs three times as many hurters as healers.
Personally, I've always been a big fan of not having classes, which is a viable route for a new MMO. Even in that case, you're sure to get characters who specialize in healing, if it's at all viable.
Somavian Apr 13th 2009 9:50PM
I am mainspec a bear but I prefer to heal. It's much more entertaining than spamming maul/swipe (atleast druid healing is, idk about pallies). I actually need to think about what heal would be best for the situation and I need to focus on who has dots up, what dots need refreshing, do I have time to throw in a nourish?
It's much less stale and more dynamic than everything else IMO
Daniel Apr 13th 2009 9:00PM
I don't have a major problem with the class roles as they are defined. What I would like to see, however, is more content that actually challenges the various abilities that different classes have. For example, I remember being so proud of the way I handled getting the egg for the Hakkar quest in the Sunken Temple. I had my Druid go into prowl at the entrance to the troll temple, snuck all the way around to the top and then into the back of the cave, killed the two monsters there, got the egg, and snuck all the way out. It was awesome; I was on edge the whole time because I specced balance and at level I had to really careful about drawing arrgo.
Having that type of adventure really isn't about healing or dps or tank. It's about being creative with class skills rather than kill, kill, kill all the time.
jbodar Apr 13th 2009 9:43PM
The problem with that is that you have to account for things like only 2 classes can stealth, some classes are squishy, some classes can't heal/CC, etc. It's that same argument when talking about solo dungeons and how to balance them. Every class has different strengths and weaknesses and the fun comes from how you play off them.
Daniel Apr 13th 2009 10:03PM
Not exactly, but you do have to get rid of the "it's the player not the class mantra." It's easy to design a instance where a rouge or a druid or some class has an advantage over others; indeed it's not hard to make a quest where in order to successfully complete the quest you have to be a certain class. Mage quests already do this. The problem is that these quests don't really test your knowledge of how to play the class; they test your ability to mash keys, or partner up.
The Avatar of Blue Apr 13th 2009 9:18PM
I think I like how D&D 4th ed classifies them.
Tank
Healer
Controller (CC)
Striker (DPS)
Kierachel Apr 13th 2009 9:46PM
I quite enjoy the whole Controller thing as well from other MMOs. WoW seems to have totally ignored the idea, largely I think because it would either be hugely underpowered in PvP or just insanely annoying to fight against.
But it is definatly a fourth role that should be explored, The idea for anyone whos not come across it before is a class that doesn't heal, DPS or tank. Instead it is entirely focused on reducing damage dealt, buffing damage done and CCing. Typical abilities would be things like spells that make mobs miss, AOE shields, knock backs, movement buffs etc.
I remember one MMO where the controller class could do things like cast a spell at the party that would then make everyone it buffed fire a fireball at their target and they could also teleport other people. So like if someone was standing in a volcano they could pick them up and put them somewhere else. It was really quite fun.