I don't understand how it is considered stealing if it was a free service for people to sign up for. If a company wanted to give you something based on a common interest how would that be negative for Blizzard? If it was free what was it stealing if it was open to anyone who wanted to sign up?

If revenue is based off of ad traffic on the website and the website creator decided to use the revenue towards giving things to it's members who signed up then I just don't see how it is a negative thing towards wow.

Basically, if you get to play extra time... for free... when WoW is a pay service, Blizzard isn't gettign revenue they are entitled to. You're getting 2 weeks instead of 1... so they are NOT getting your money. Whether or not it was free was besides the point, people were getting free play time that Blizzard didn't authorize. It's theft. it's not intentionally harmful, and I don't think it's malicious... but it was potentially opening up Blizzard for some serious loss in profits.

"YPOWP was actually stealing from blizzard. Imagine if you got your money reimbursed by Blizzard and STILL got more given to you? "

I was going to mock you, but frankly, this post displays such a startling level of ignorance that I am literally at a loss for words.

How in the world can someone *giving* you something out of their own pocket be considered *stealing*? Especially since - in order to *give* you that gift - YPOWP would have to turn around and *buy* a game card from Blizzard?

Explain to me how, at the end of this transaction, Blizzard has been stolen from, when they are in fact $15 richer?

"... what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."

I can understand the logic but the game cards given had to be purchased. Blizzard still received revenue for the time that was given to anyone on the site. The only difference was that the website paid for the game card and not the person who used it. Therefore, still no theft.

The 30-day cards were purchased by the website from Blizzard's online store.

The problem with the "stealing from Blizzard" logic is, the "free time" consisted of YPOWP purchasing a time card for you, FROM BLIZZARD.

>Whether or not it was free was besides the point, people were getting free play time that Blizzard didn't authorize.

Let me stop you right there Swurds, as you are completely and utterly wrong.

Why?

Because Blizzard DID authorize it. What, how you say, did Blizzard authorize it? By selling game cards that ANYBODY could use to give to others to pay for their account.

It would be one thing if YPOWP ran into Wal-mart and stole a box of cards, that would indeed be a problem, but that was not the case, not at all.

This is like saying my employer is stealing from Wal-Mart when they give out a batch of those Wal-Mart shopping cards as a bonus. They're not. Wal-Mart isn't getting robbed at all.

So please, please, retract your words.

They are getting their money in the form of game time cards purchased by this now defunct company. They don't care who actually pays for the game time, just that it's paid for. It's not like these YPOWP guys were magically creating working, activated game time cards out of thin air. They paid for them and distributed them. I don't know if Blizzard's stated reason for going after this site is truly valid, but your assertion that this company was "stealing" from Blizzard in any way is fallacious.

> Whether or not it was free was besides the point, people were getting free play time that Blizzard didn't authorize. It's theft.

No, Blizzard authorized it by the game cards they sold and allowed to be given or transferred to others. They got their revenue.

Just like Wal-Mart gets revenue when companies give away shopping cards. Those cards aren't stolen, and it's not thievery.

I don't know how you came to this totally mistaken understanding of what was happening, but I sincerely hop you can recognize your error Swurds, because it is one on your part.

"YPOWP was actually stealing from blizzard."

the only revenue they were getting was from advertising space. in that case WoWinsider, MMO-champion, Wowhead, Thottbot, and Allakhazam are stealing from Blizzard also.

QUIT STEALING FROM BLIZZARD WOWINSIDER!

Blizz is not losing out on revenue. It does not matter if you are paying Blizzard or someone else pays Blizzard. The game card was purchased - no different then getting a gift of a Blizzard game card. Someone paid money and someone uses it to play with.

They user gets free wow, the website gets advertising revenue and Blizzard comes out the same. The only obvious problem is that someone besides Blizzard has the potential to make money off of the Blizzard game and Blizzard is not going to allow that.

Not to push the argument, but sure, they bought the cards. But is Blizzard getting any revenue from them other than that? No. They are making money off of ads on the site, giving cards to people who have all ready gotten the time anyway. So, while people may think I am mistaken... fact is, if I used the service, I would knowingly be getting for ME an free day/week/month that I DIDN'T ask Blizzard for. And the site gets money for me doing that. It's like saying buying gold isn't against policy. Yes the "consumer" isn't paying the site directly, but we are exchanging goods for a service.

End result, UPOWP was making money off of Blizzard's property without consent. And they made the service "free" so they could get around the system, by just collecting the revenue from the ads. The end result is no different than getting money for selling gold. You're just having someone ELSE pay you for it. Call me mistaken if you like, agree or disagree, but the sites been shut down due to the very reasons I've stated. If you make money off someone else’s product, without their permission, even if you think it doesn't directly hit their bottom line, it's still theft(it’s just theft you hope they won’t notice). If Blizzard wanted the service active, they'd create it or allow it in their ToS(like add-ons). They didn't create it, and they still don't allow it, and in the end, the service was stopped.

>Not to push the argument, but sure, they bought the cards.

It's good you admit that, and I hope that means you know why your arguments that they were stealing unauthorized time that Blizzard wasn't getting paid for. They were.

(Unless you have some evidence that they managed to get hacked cards somehow.)

>But is Blizzard getting any revenue from them other than that? No. They are making money off of ads on the site, giving cards to people who have all ready gotten the time anyway.

No, they're giving cards to people would apply them to their accounts, which would mean that time would be applied to their subscription. Let's say your account was set to be charged this Friday. If you logged on and used a game card that somebody gave you, then you'd not be charged till May. Or June if it was a 60 day card.

That's how it works. Other sites give away game cards, you'll note, like um...WoWInsider!

> So, while people may think I am mistaken... fact is, if I used the service, I would knowingly be getting for ME an free day/week/month that I DIDN'T ask Blizzard for.

No, that's not how it works at all. This is why you're completely and utterly mistaken. You are mistaken.

>And the site gets money for me doing that. It's like saying buying gold isn't against policy. Yes the "consumer" isn't paying the site directly, but we are exchanging goods for a service.

No, it's nothing like saying Buying gold isn't against policy. Nothing at all. BTW, have you been into Wal-Mart lately? Did you know they sell game cards to people? Do you know they get a cut? Do you know you're legally allowed to sell your TCG cards for money, even the loot cards? Cuz you are!

>End result, UPOWP was making money off of Blizzard's property without consent. And they made the service "free" so they could get around the system, by just collecting the revenue from the ads.

No, they made the service free because folks complained about paying into it, thinking they'd get scammed. So they adapted as best they could.

>The end result is no different than getting money for selling gold.

The end result is quite different.

> Call me mistaken if you like, agree or disagree, but the sites been shut down due to the very reasons I've stated.

You're mistaken because you're wrong, and no, many sites have not been shut down for selling or giving away real goods.

I can go buy a car from a local dealer if I want, and give it away on my website.

> If you make money off someone else’s product, without their permission, even if you think it doesn't directly hit their bottom line, it's still theft(it’s just theft you hope they won’t notice).

No, in this case it's not theft, any more than if I sell the cans of soda I buy at the grocery store without telling Coke or Pepsi about it. Or if I operate a used book store. Yes, that's right, I can buy books and sell them used at my own store. It's legal and nobody could sue me to stop.

This is distinct from something like say, copying a music CD or a DVD and selling it, as it's a real good being sold, not me making copies.

> If Blizzard wanted the service active, they'd create it or allow it in their ToS(like add-ons). They didn't create it, and they still don't allow it, and in the end, the service was stopped.

Dude, Blizzard just decided to throw their lawyers at the problem. It doesn't make what they did legal or right. This is different from something like Glider or SusanExpress where they're interacting with the state of the game. Nothing YPOWP did was any different than what you can do by going to Wal-Mart.

Nothing.

You can quibble over it for a lot of reasons, but to call it theft? Stealing? Like you did? That is not true. If you're going to come up with objections to it, please try to make your objections less laughable. They are patently false and easily refuted.

Swurds...throwing the word "theft" into a message multiple times won't make it more real, or more believable. There's many legal aspects to that (at least in Australia, the legal term is "larceny" - explained by "the seven proofs of larceny", yes SEVEN criteria for something to be legally theft. This service FAILS EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM!)...but let's focus on the common sense, since laws vary from country to country.

For something to be stolen, it has to be something you have no right to, that you're depriving the owner of. So...what are Blizzard being deprived of? The purchase of game time? Nope, game card is purchased, the source of the purchase price is irrelevant. Advertising or traffic on their own sites? Nope - many people (almost) never see those, and if these cards are, as someone pointed out, purchased at an online store, there is web traffic going there that Blizzard might miss out on if the user bought it themselves (at a nearby store, say).

The entire process is legal. Advertising revenue? Can't argue it. Purchasing game cards? Ditto. Giving game cards to registered members, having obtained them legally? Providing they comply with any relevant "lottery" style legislation, that's perfectly legitimate too.

As for the intellectual property claim...I cannot see the relevance. YPOWP didn't use anything belonging to Blizzard (unless they stole some artwork for their site, which would be pretty stupid). Parody works, which are very obviously and fairly closely based on a copyrighted work, are for the most part illegal (there may be places where they aren't). How can you argue that this, which DOES NOT use any of the ideas, concepts etc in WoW, is more illegal than something like the Barry Trotter books? (I"m sure there's better examples).

Blizzard are not being deprived of anything. Every step in the process is most obviously legal, even if some technical argument can be made that the whole is not (which matter would be pointless to argue). It simply cannot be theft, no matter how hard you argue that it must be because you don't like it...

Even piracy, which is obviously illegal, cannot realistically be classified as theft. You aren't depriving the owner of anything (except MAYBE a sale, which they'd only receive through 3+ intermediaries anyway). It's a copy, the owner doesn't lose the original, that's why piracy is prosecuted under copyright laws, not theft/larceny laws - it can't be.

@ Swurds - Rather than go over what other people have already clearly stated before and after you desperately flail to defend yourself I shall simply ask you to please, save everyone a lot of time and do some research on the topic will you?