The best loot comes from hard modes, not just Yogg-Saron
by Eliah Hecht 
Apr 17th 2009 at 2:00PM
Yesterday, Ensidia earned the world-first Yogg-Saron kill. This is not the world-first Ulduar clear, because Algalon is designed to be the hardest boss in there, but that's a story for another post. What I want to talk about here is loot.
Specifically, I want to talk about the quality of Yoggy's goods, which is the same as the quality of every other drop in normal-mode Ulduar-25: ilvl 226 for armor, and ilvl 232 for weapons. The same pattern holds on 10-man, with Yogg-10's drops being ilvl 219, like the rest of Uld-10. This is a departure from previous tradition, where the last boss of a raid would drop items of higher caliber. Kel'Thuzad, for instance, drops items a full tier above the rest of Naxx (ilvl 213 vs. 200 on 10-man, ilvl 226 vs 213 on 25-man).
Blizzard has addressed the question, and says the new strategy is for the best loot in the raid to come from hard modes, not from the last boss. So, for instance, the items dropped by Flame Leviathan, Ulduar's first boss, on hard mode are better than the ones Ensidia has wrenched from Yoggy's normal-mode tentacles.
Does this strategy make sense to you, or do you think a raid's big bad should drop big loot? Personally, I can completely get behind hard-mode yielding better rewards, even if it means my guild won't see them for a little while. I'm having a blast in Ulduar so far.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Palatel Apr 17th 2009 2:07PM
As long as Flame leviathan hard is below Yogg hard, I am okay.
CursedSeishi Apr 17th 2009 2:13PM
Honestly? I see a bit of an issue with this. It could end up leading to people just wanting to farm specific hard-modes.
All hard-mode is is just a term. Is it really harder than normal? Its all based on the perspective of the players. Is it hard-mode when a voidwalker can tank 3D Sarth? Sure the warlock has to gear somewhat for it, but if it makes the encounter itself trivial, then it isn't any harder than 2 or 1, or even sarth on his own. For all we know, the hard modes just add a gimmick, and that said gimmick might make the encounter harder, or the players will just shrug it off.
Sylargrey Apr 17th 2009 2:24PM
Th VW has been nerfed if you didn't know so that won't be happening anymore.
Woif Apr 17th 2009 5:03PM
have you done 1, 2, or 3D sarth?
CursedSeishi Apr 17th 2009 3:19PM
True, but now we can replace that voidwalker with the gear we have from Ulduar, which will, essentially, do the same thing. Different means, same ends.
dasime Apr 17th 2009 3:28PM
I can tell you now hard mode is much harder than just straight up fighting bosses.
I've been in ulduar25 with my guild 2 nights running and we tried out half a hard mode (defeating just 2/ 4 turrets first) on Flame Leviathan just to see how 'hard' hard really was and I can say that we had it noticeably 'harder' than normal.
...hard *twitch* ...
Moonduh Apr 17th 2009 7:08PM
Yes, the hard modes are not hard in terms of relativity or opinion. They are HARD. Two seconds into any of the hard modes on these and you'll understand that Blizz did their homework and really pulled out all the stops to make Ulduar "hard modes" hard.
Superthrust Apr 17th 2009 7:33PM
Seishi, i noticed that alot of the fanboys for wowinsider downvoted your post, so i beefed it up a little. If i have to, ill delete cookies and do it till its 3 stars.
My post, pertaining to yours, is that its exactly like you say. Its all really the same. All bosses now, before ulduar, were "hard" at some point. Sure, people just went in and did it, cause we had a pre-emp strat to work off of. All those people who went into naxx the first times and made all the strategies made it easier for anyone in wrath with 2cents, just to google a strat video or something.
Ulduar is only hard for some, because its NEW...as in, brand new, fresh off the dev's plates. It is new, no strategies, and i expected no less from blizzard. They finally have given us what we asked for. An original instance, unique fights, and a worthy challenge for our player base. I agree with the people that say this instance is tough. I would be a fool to think it was easy. But, to say its nearly impossible is just as foolish. All it takes is time, persistence and patience.
Clbull Apr 17th 2009 7:46PM
From my experience, I would call Sarth 1D, 2D and 3D far from trivial. It requires a lot of focus to avoid the lava waves, and quite a bit of offtanking and dpsing down adds. Add 1, 2 or 3 drakes each giving debuffs and the encounter is going to be harder.
Yes, I do know that all 3 drakes appear in the encounter at different times, but you still got the debuffs to think about.
CursedSeishi Apr 18th 2009 2:18PM
@Clbll, read what I said. A voidwalker tank made the encounter trivial, yes they rectified that with the patch, but does it matter anymore? No. Cause now we'll have all this shiny new Ulduar gear to compensate. And while they removed the glory of the naxx raider achieve and mount, they still let us get the Sarth 10 and 25man drake. Is that fair? No.
@Super, thanks, I agree that the main reason it seems harder is that its new, give the number crunchers and achievement freaks some time, and we'll see plenty of "Ulduar hard-mode for dummies" pop up.
And moondah, +50% health and +25% damage a hard mode does not make, neither does adding an eight minute time limit. The only "Hard Mode" encounter I'd say is deserving of it is The Iron Council. Its unique, at least in terms of the current expansion.
A hard mode should be hard, not because of simple buffs, but because the encounter changes radically.
Alganon for instance, you have to kill the four watchers in their hardmodes to get to him. Instead of a quest, killing him should reward you with a hard mode for Yogg-Saron. Not just lower sanity, or more damage. But the titans themselves intervening. They come down and start attacking Ulduar, adding in new, random elements into the attack. Parts of the ceiling come crashing down atop players, but can be used to break those who have fallen under Yogg's sway by making it fall on him. Beams of energy rip across the ground, damaging anyone foolish enough to stay in its path, even after its done. As time goes on, the titans get closer and closer, more and more attacks are unleashed, until they break into the area the players in and wipe the slate clean. An instant wipe, including Yogg. Sure people would complain that they only get one shot, but thats the only way it would truelly be hard.
Neodarkmatter Apr 17th 2009 2:14PM
I'm alright with it as long as Blizzard keeps with the progression trends. A 10-man raid geared with items from Ulduar-10 should be able to do hard modes. You shouldn't have to be running the 25-mans to get gear just to do the hard modes on 10-man content. And it's alright to require you have everything the best it can be from Ulduar to do the hard modes.
Radiophonic Apr 17th 2009 3:34PM
I agree 100% and I hope this is true.
WTB a Bliz response to this.
Arashikou Apr 17th 2009 5:09PM
Judging purely from the iLevels involved in the drops, this is exactly the design. Being geared out to Ulduar-10 non-hard mode levels will put you at the appropriate gear level to then try Ulduar-10 hard modes. Ulduar-25 gear would make you slightly OVERGEARED for the Ulduar-10 hard modes. (I couldn't tell you whether the boss fights actually bear this design out, though, as I am not in a guild that is anywhere close to doing Ulduar hard modes.)
Besides - Blizz has said time and again that the whole point of normal vs. heroic raids is to avoid the Burning Crusade trap of having to progress in one raid size before you can progress in the other. Given that, it seems unlikely they would design the 10-man Hard fights to require drops from 25-man raids.
Jenn Apr 17th 2009 2:19PM
I think it make sense even if it means that I will personally never have a chance at the best in game gear (and I wont). That being said, however, I think Blizzard should changes it's stance that raid Achievements (i.e. hard mode) are optional when they clearly are not in the current raiding environment.
Sorro Apr 17th 2009 2:19PM
I think it's reasonable to provide better rewards for both hard mode and the last boss. Incentives should exist for attempting both, if Blizzard wants to encourage both.
Azizrael Apr 17th 2009 2:19PM
I'm fine with this. KT/Illidan/KJ/whoever drop the best loot because they're the end of the instance. If the end comes when you beat Bonus Hard Mode Boss, then that should be where the best loot is.
dfgreat1 Apr 17th 2009 2:22PM
They are optional for experiencing content is probably what they mean.
Tim Apr 17th 2009 2:33PM
But they aren't optional for experiencing content. Unless there's a future nerf of Algalon coming then there is content which is only available to raiders willing to do hard-mode progression.
dfgreat1 Apr 17th 2009 2:38PM
oh yeah, kinda skipped that... but it seems that he has very little to do with the story so far.
Candina@WH Apr 17th 2009 3:43PM
Yep. They threw the 'Hard Mode' raiders a bone and gave them a boss just for them.
Sorry, but it is still an optional boss. You have the option to join a 25 man raid doing the hard mode.
Me? I don't have the time, so at least I get to experience Ulduar, Sans Alagon. I never got to see all of TK, or any of BT/Hyjal/Sunwell.
Kudo's to blizz for making it both accessible to the main stream, and still giving the elitist/completist something 'special'.