Patch 5.4 patch notes
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The latest patch 5.4 newsThe best loot comes from hard modes, not just Yogg-Saron
by Eliah Hecht 
Apr 17th 2009 at 2:00PM
Yesterday, Ensidia earned the world-first Yogg-Saron kill. This is not the world-first Ulduar clear, because Algalon is designed to be the hardest boss in there, but that's a story for another post. What I want to talk about here is loot.
Specifically, I want to talk about the quality of Yoggy's goods, which is the same as the quality of every other drop in normal-mode Ulduar-25: ilvl 226 for armor, and ilvl 232 for weapons. The same pattern holds on 10-man, with Yogg-10's drops being ilvl 219, like the rest of Uld-10. This is a departure from previous tradition, where the last boss of a raid would drop items of higher caliber. Kel'Thuzad, for instance, drops items a full tier above the rest of Naxx (ilvl 213 vs. 200 on 10-man, ilvl 226 vs 213 on 25-man).
Blizzard has addressed the question, and says the new strategy is for the best loot in the raid to come from hard modes, not from the last boss. So, for instance, the items dropped by Flame Leviathan, Ulduar's first boss, on hard mode are better than the ones Ensidia has wrenched from Yoggy's normal-mode tentacles.
Does this strategy make sense to you, or do you think a raid's big bad should drop big loot? Personally, I can completely get behind hard-mode yielding better rewards, even if it means my guild won't see them for a little while. I'm having a blast in Ulduar so far.
Reader Comments (Page 2 of 3)
Eric Apr 17th 2009 2:25PM
I think the hard encounters NEED to drop the best loot. Otherwise why do em? For ten achievement points? Pfft. But I think the big bad should still drop some awesome epics too, otherwise he's just another boss. The funny thing is Yogg, the big bad dude ender of life and so on and so forth is not the final boss, the final boss is locked up behind tons of hard modes, has nothing to do with anything, and apparently will feed on our tears. Why is this random schmo so tough. Lets compare it to Arthas not being nearly as tough as some other random scourge dude in Icecrown Citadel. "What? That makes no sense." My point exactly. Instead of some super hard extra boss Yogg should have been hard, and have a hard mode that makes people cry, not some boss hiding in some room.
Eamara Apr 17th 2009 2:38PM
Yogg-Saron's hard mode will probably make people cry too. One interesting thing: The meta achievement for getting the proto drakes, Glory of the Ulduar Raider (http://www.wowhead.com/?achievement=2958) requires the achievement One Light in the Darkness (http://www.wowhead.com/?achievement=3163), which requires one or less keepers help during the battle with Yogg-Saron. However, there is a more difficult version, Alone in the Darkness (http://www.wowhead.com/?achievement=3164), which is not required for the meta achievement.
This suggests that Yogg-Saron's 'true' hard mode is going to be something truly impressive and raid breaking indeed.
Aigarius Apr 17th 2009 5:04PM
Bill Gates does not hit as hard as his bodyguards.
Eric Apr 17th 2009 5:44PM
Thats in a scenario of Bill Gates hiring tougher guys to defend him, this is an Old god, that is supposed to be relatively tough, not needing protection, being a god and all.
jfofla Apr 17th 2009 2:26PM
I think this is Blizzard's response to players who have refused to see Hard Modes as a step in progression
Treason Apr 17th 2009 2:35PM
This is *Fan f-ing tastic*
I *hate with a passion* that we have to run naxx 5 times to shard everything or send it to offsets except the stuff that drops in FWL. FWL is not harder by that much more, its just later. This is an excellent step up to reward skill over hours.
Clbull Apr 17th 2009 8:24PM
As someone who has done Naxxramas before. I agree with you a lot about this. I don't think Sapphiron is THAT hard but you do fight him really late in the instance (after taking down about 13 boss encounters.)
I think that Hard Modes are a great idea, and can turn a boss from easy to bloody hard, but with much better rewards and achievements for killing.
I was hoping that they'd focus on them more with the tier 7 content (Although it was done in OS with the 3 drakes idea.)
DAWG Apr 17th 2009 2:37PM
Maybe Algalon will drop gear that is 2 tiers above hard mode Yogg's, because remember kids, Algalon is hard, really hard, he will make you cry and will drink your tears for nurishment.
Pexxle -=SilverHand (RP)=- Apr 17th 2009 2:38PM
It doesn't have to hold true all the while, i mean a random/rare, High End weapon would be nice in a 25 man.
But "hard mode" is just that, so i agree with the items being better.
As someone said, you run the 25's to acquire the gear for a hard 10 man.
dave Apr 17th 2009 3:32PM
No you don't run 25s for so you can do hard mode 10. If that was the case, then what are people supposed to run to beat hard mode 25?
Blizzard has stated *several* times that 10 man and 25 man are separate progression paths. And to make it clear for you that don't get what that means, that means that you can "beat the game" on 10 man, without EVER stepping foot into a 25 man.
Arashikou Apr 17th 2009 5:20PM
You seem to be confused - Ulduar-10 Hard drops are not upgrades from Ulduar-25 Non-Hard drops. Most appear to be sidegrades at best, downgrades at worst. (And I think you misread the person you are referring to - they are hoping that you do NOT have to do 25-man to gear up for 10-man hard.)
Granted, you CAN gear up on 25-man Non-Hard before doing 10-man Hard. It's a bit of an odd choice, but it would make the 10-man Hard content significantly easier since you'd be overgeared. An interesting way to try out the Hard mode fights (at the cost of not getting gear upgrades) for a guild that can cut it on Ulduar-25 Non-Hard but not on Ulduar-25 Hard.
Pexxle -=SilverHand (RP)=- Apr 17th 2009 7:45PM
So true so true, got me numbers mixed up as i tried to type this before my boss headed back to my desk.
-5 stealth for me...
+10 Achievement for FAILURE.
Yay!
50 more FAILS and i get a title.
Kylesmom Apr 17th 2009 2:39PM
first people bitch that raids are too hard, then they bitch that they are too easy, then they bitch that the loot isn't full of awesomeness, then they bitch that they have to complete hard modes of raids that they bitched about being to easy to get gear that is full of awesomeness. Blizz has more patience and understanding then I have seen from most any game or software development vendor.
seanfury Apr 17th 2009 2:41PM
I love this, I absolutely LOVE it. It doesn't stop casuals from experiencing all the content, but it does stop them getting the best gear, which you need to dedicate hours of time into.
crayzeigh Apr 17th 2009 2:48PM
This.
I can still talk to my casual buddies about raiding endgame bosses, but I still get the gear and the challenging encounters to set me apart.
As long as the hard modes are actually hard (and I imagine blizzard will get it right this time) I have no problems with this.
jerzz80 Apr 17th 2009 3:31PM
I dont understand why the best gear in the game only drops in 25 man Raids.
Raids are cute and all, cause theres TWENTY FIVE of us in there. But that hardly warrents the claim of "hard".
Hard for the Raid leader that needs to tell all the idiots how to fight. Sure, he deserves a new drop every time. But for the AOE spamming, cast sequence macro pushing out there, 25 mans are hardly the hardest thing to do in the game.
Give me a hard 5 man any day. Way more statisfying IMO.
Hell, the most fun me and my friends have are runnign 5 mans with bad groups. So much fun knowing you are carrying the load.
In a 25 man, your often lost in the shuffle.
Bob Dewane Apr 17th 2009 3:51PM
@ jerzz80
25 man mode IS NOT hard mode. Hard mode is when you engage the encounter in a certain way that ramps up the difficulty level. For example: Sarth 25 is not Sarth hard mode, Sart 3D is Sarth hard mode.
steve Apr 17th 2009 2:50PM
Gotta say this is a great idea, from what ive seen so far ulduar is a serious steph up from naxx, an ive only done a little bit of 10 man, i always liked the best gear being out of reach of the casuals (btw im a casual raider myself) it always added some mystery to it and made the gear seem much more impressive. The only difference this time is now i can experience the content myself meaning i enjoy the game a lot more and there are still some serious challenges for the more hard core gamers to work towards
Adam Rogers Apr 17th 2009 4:10PM
I like having the hard modes have better gear, but I think Yogg should maybe be better loot on average than the rest of the instance. Would it be practical to go somewhere in between? Like have an ilevel halfway in between the two?
Dunnion Apr 17th 2009 3:22PM
The only issue i have with this is just how easy the first boss is. With no-one in the raid stepping a foot in Ulduar before our first raid (aka: no one raiding on the PTR), we killed the big RC car with a tower up, first try ever, and most the people didn't know what they were doing.
And then wiped endlessly on the next bosses. I'm all for hard modes giving better loot then normal modes, but I have a hunch that flame with 4 towers is still easier then most normal boss fights.