The Care and Feeding of Warriors: Dual Spec Salvation
Another week, another series of raids into Ulduar.I'm not going to talk about it this week... I'm waiting for more T8 level gear (just got my pants last night) but in general, I'm moving from 'mild discontent' to 'frothing nerd rage' at the state of fury right now. The main reason isn't even my own DPS, which is going up... it's that other classes and specs that aren't 'pure DPS' are now bumped up to where my spec was before patch 3.1, when the reason for my spec's nerfs was stated as that level of DPS being 'too good' for a class that had options besides DPSing. If a class can tank, heal and DPS why is it okay for them to do the damage I used to do when I can only tank and DPS?
But that being said, I've discovered a unique joy in the past week, and that's the Dual Spec system. Ironically, I still respec about twice a week. In fact, I may even respec more now than I did before dual specs were available.
"Wait a second" you may have said when you read that. Then again, you may not have. I'm not at your house, and I don't have any insanely complicated surveillance equipment pointed at your head right now so that I can hear what you're saying. But anyway, you may well be thinking "If you're enjoying the dual spec system so much, why are you respeccing so often?'
If you aren't thinking that, then you'll just have to forgive me for going on as if you were.
I originally assumed that I would have prot as my offspec and fury as my main spec. I forgive myself for having been more optimistic about the state of fury DPS, both because I am myself and because I didn't really want to believe what I was seeing. But I ignored a few aspects of the raiding game that I shouldn't have missed when considering what my specs were going to be.
- My raiding guild has more tanks than it needs for most fights now as it is.
- While my tanking gear is rock solid, I was recruited to be a DPS player, and my attendance as DPS is actually important to my guild.
- My class as of patch 3.1 has a DPS spec that is superior on bosses and another DPS spec that is superior on trash.
- There's a lot of trash in Ulduar. Clearing the trash and minibosses before Freya can take you 20 minutes on a bad night.
But on raid nights, three nights a week, I run a dual spec that's PvE Arms/ PvE Fury. The reason I do this is that, while I prefer fury on my human (I don't really know why, I just always have) there are some bosses where arms DPS just seems greatly superior: I can squeeze about 500 more DPS out of Arms on Ignis, for example. This might just be a personal performance quirk. While I would argue that Arms and Fury, at the current level of gear, have definitely flip-flopped in terms of boss DPS the difference isn't usually that bad for me, although at present I lack a Naxx - 25 quality BiS for either Arms or Fury. (I hate you so much, Betrayer.) I like to stick with fury where I can, especially since I'm seeing its DPS increase as I get more gear from Ulduar 10 and 25, but raiding is a team effort. As a DPS player, it's my job to bring as much DPS as I possibly can, and sometimes that means switching to arms.
Then, on our optional 10 man raids (which I actually attend on two characters, which means I'm going to two separate 10 mans a weekend now, and many of my guildmates do the same) I actually often spec protection/arms so as to switch between fights, something I don't do during our 25 mans. I do this to provide the Arms debuffs like Blood Frenzy as well as providing overall stronger DPS, and to be capable of switching to tank more easily when it's required (I hate Thorim trash on 10 man) - it helps give our raids more flexibility and allows us to spread out the more geared players to as many raids as possible. So in any given week, with dual specs, I'm respeccing at least twice and sometimes three times. (Granted, it's only been for two weeks now.)
I don't find it that onerous... I have a stockpile of the glyphs I like to use for each spec and it's not like 50g every few days is that hard to come by. What surprises me is that I'm not using dual spec at all the way I expected I would, to save money on the constant respeccing to tank a heroic or what have you, but rather to enhance the gameplay I was already interested in before they came out. To a degree, I find the ability to be somewhat insulative, like a small insurance policy against class changes and complications in available raid members.
I know I've read statements that argue Blizzard isn't intending to design dungeons that require dual spec to complete: I assume this means that I'm not expected to have to do any of this. Then again, I don't do it because I feel like I have to do it as much as I feel like it finally gives me the freedom other classes have had since inception. This is the first time my warrior has ever really felt like a hybrid (and then only in 10 mans) - in 25 man raiding I'm seeing dual spec used rarely to overcome a hard encounter by switching DPS to healing or tanking, I can only think of one time I've seen anyone go from DPS to healing, and that on Hodir when one of our healers had login issues and we wanted to do a test pull. On two or three fights we have tanks go DPS, XT - 002 comes to mind. But what it has accomplished is to allow me to continue to raid as DPS and to have the flexibility to decide exactly what spec is best for each pull, and that's been plenty for me this past week.
Next week, either I begin discussing Ulduar gear (especially the case of the missing crit on Siegebreaker's DPS version and why I'm hot for the T8 tanking pieces) or I finally have my nerd rage rant explosion about fury.
Filed under: Warrior, (Warrior) The Care and Feeding of Warriors, Patches, Analysis / Opinion, Instances, Raiding, Bosses






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Bikhai Apr 24th 2009 3:11PM
Have to say I was with you about not wanting to believe fury's as bad as it is. Had to test it out on my own, and I'm definitely arms for my OS. Kinda having the same problem as you in that there are still a bunch of different specs I want to use, meriting respeccing dual specs, but I don't have the money to fork over. Of course, with my talents reseting every third day anyways....
Heilig Apr 24th 2009 6:40PM
The math I've seen indicates that fury still scales better than any other spec, so I will reserve judgment until we see people in some later tier gear. Remember the shirts of uber? I saw some WWS test parses on patchwerk with them on and off, and warriors seemed to get the full benefit from the scaling with rogues and hunters following, DK's and ferals in the middle, and paladins and shamans bringing up the rear. Not sure how it will shake out on live, but the math supports the tests.
Anecdotally speaking, I upgraded from the Wraith Spear to Ironsoul last night on my pally, which is a pretty massive upgrade, and my DPS went up less than 1% from the most important slot I can upgrade, while a fury warrior with Titansteel Destroyer/Demise replaced his demise with Inevitable defeat, a smaller upgrade than mine was, and saw about 5% increase.
faradhim Apr 24th 2009 3:13PM
Are you rerolling and pally or a druid?
Zebulin Apr 24th 2009 3:16PM
"The main reason isn't even my own DPS, which is going up... it's that other classes and specs that aren't 'pure DPS' are now bumped up to where my spec was before patch 3.1, when the reason for my spec's nerfs was stated as that level of DPS being 'too good' for a class that had options besides DPSing. If a class can tank, heal and DPS why is it okay for them to do the damage I used to do when I can only tank and DPS?"
Now you almost understand where hunters were complaining about their nerfs recently. We're pure DPS and got nerfed for being too high because hybrids "couldn't achieve the same numbers". Well, boo hoo. *sigh*
Magius Apr 24th 2009 3:35PM
Actually Hunters were nerfed because they were too high, not because everyone else was QQ'ing about being too low.
As for Blizzard's reasons to nerf, well, they dig their own holes. One time they say they want to bring the player, not the class but the next time they nerf left and right is one class is at the same DPS level or above than others. If they really wanted to level the field then any DPS-capable class would be at the same level and let skill sort them out instead of fancy spells and abilities.
Of course then PVP would break like a little twig and we know how much Blizz loves the PVP.
Nevermind the rant, the problem is that Blizz themselves are not sure on how to solve it, so they prod here and there, take a step back and see how it works. Rinse and repeat.
frzzzzzzzzzz Apr 24th 2009 3:24PM
what is your arms spec, and what does your normal rotation look like?
Anaughtybear Apr 24th 2009 3:27PM
I have to agree with the nerd raging. Blizzard has never really "got" warriors. They have always been treated as instance slaves and second class citizens to most classes. Warriors are really the only pure class there is, historically the most feared and powerful individuals. Simply speaking as a casual player, I would like the option of playing DPS if I wanted to. And to Blizzard: STOP MESSING WITH EVERYTHING.
Heilig Apr 24th 2009 6:44PM
Yeah, I guess that's why all the warrior set bonuses in vanilla were 100% tank oriented, because you guys are a pure dps class.
Jessierockeron Apr 28th 2009 7:05AM
@helig
Pure also refers to what kind of damage you put out i.e. nature/poisons/etc.
Warriors? They're pure melee, even thunder clap isn't considered nature damage.
vazhkatsi Apr 28th 2009 9:40AM
funny, because if you get silenced, some abilities get cut off
jimonaxe Apr 24th 2009 3:42PM
Nerg Rage Explosion article plss!!!
I'm experimenting with pve arms and pve fury atm and find both moral killingly low. Sure arms on some bosses, and target dummies in particular, is pulling at least 500 dps more than fury - but it seems like all blizz has done in this latest patch is imbalance an already imbalanced class.
Imo all they had to do was nerf deep wounds with TG - that was the primary contribution to our sometimes insane dps (loatheb etc)
Chro Apr 24th 2009 3:58PM
I always find it amusing whenever warriors complain about being treated as 'second class citizens'. For a long time, they were THE tank to go to, bar none, no questions asked. Pallies and druids were told to heal or get out. That is not second class. Up until recently, warriors were the top dps in raids, above the pures and the hybrids. That is not second class either.
Now their tanking has been overshadowed by DKs, and their dps has been overshadowed by pures.
Warriors are the mirror class to feral druids (coincidentally, another group that can either dps or tank.) One patch, they're the best, are considered necessary or first class for raiding. Then, people complain, and the next patch they go back to being second class. When warriors are up, ferals are down, and vice versa. It would be lovely if the two groups could be equal and content, but somehow Blizzard always messes up the balancing somehow.
A1CYancy Apr 24th 2009 8:23PM
Here's the problem. The logic behind the DPS numbers is that PURE DPS classes should be top DPS. I TOTALLY understand that. It makes sense. Using THAT logic, Warriors should be higher than Paladins and Druids and on par with DKs. Why? Warriors have 2 jobs, tanking and melee DPS. Paladins have 3 jobs; heal, melee dps, and tank. Druids have four; Tank, heal, melee dps, caster dps. So with the logic that Blizz crams down our throats, Warriors should be right under pure DPS classes. The problem is we are still getting out DPSed by druids and paladins. I have no problem with Warriors being prot only. BUT prot warriors BETTER be the BEST tanks in the game. Based on the pure dps argument, that would make sense. I don't see that happening anytime soon, so Blizz needs to fix the class to have the DPS it should.
Arms vs Fury? Arms needs to go back to single target and Fury needs to be more AOE based. Why? Um Two FAT weapons swinging around would hit more skulls. Arms Agility/ crit based. Fury strength.
Mindreaver Apr 24th 2009 4:04PM
Arms is definitely awesome now, especially on bosses.
Depending on your raid setup the extra kick from blood frenzy is really nice, since it doesn't share a debuff slot with anything else, and the crit bonus from fury shares it's slow with feral druids.
But I am happy with arms ATM, but it can't last, I'm a juggernaut in BGs and Arena now. They'll nerf arms any day now.
And fury will make a comeback. It really comes down to titan's grip at the end of the day.
Has anyone had any luck ignoring titan's grip and using a BC-style fury build?
Dan Apr 25th 2009 1:45PM
Actually, blood frenzy shares with rogue's similar ability.
Kylmak Apr 24th 2009 4:11PM
The main issue here is definitely with DPS specs. Although they have greatly buffed other "tank" classes, Blizzard still seems to believe that most warriors end up with a tank spec for PvE.
Being the MT for my raid group, I haven't had any problems with my tank specs (I actually use a full MT spec as my first and a hybrdi threat spec as my second spec).
For DPS, we have both a fury and arms warrior in my group (as main specs) and the tables have been turned with the latest patch; the arms warrior is outdpsing the fury one. Looking back on all the nerfs and buffs these two specs have gotten since the game came out, I think blizzard is still unsure as to what to do with these specs, what role they want to give them. I just don
Red Apr 24th 2009 4:20PM
I agree with rolling with PvE Arms / PvE Fury.
After making DPS (Fury) my focus as something to do when Naxx died down, and in preparation for Ulduar (was prot since the beginning of time), my initial idea was to run PvE Fury with PvP Arms.
Since the patch hitting, it's been a totally different story.
I haven't touched a PvP spec yet as most of my time has been consumed with gearing up in PvE Fury (which I'm comfortable with) and trying to learn PvE Arms (which I finally think I have the hang of now - which also involves setting my interface properly).
PvE Arms/ PvE Fury
On our server, everyone is always asking for stats in PUGs (fair enough), and I've been asked to come as fury rather than arms simply because Fury Stats sound stronger than Arms Stats (perhaps until people start appreciating arms).
PvE DPS (Arms? Fury?) / PvE Prot
Guild Raid-wise, it would be nice to be able to help out with Tanking (eg. XT-002 trash which we hit for the first time and didn't know quite what to do .. and it would have helped to throw in an extra tank to observe things while everything was happening). But you're right .. different fights would suit different DPS Specs
PvE DPS / PvP
But now Arena Season 6 has started!
ARGH!
On another note, perhaps because I switched pretty late, and haven't been accustomed to being *that* high up in the DPS lists (yes .. yes .. noob) .. I'm finding the changes to Arms quite refreshing and exciting. I'm finding I'm spending a lot of time researching /using the EJ spreadsheets to try to work out how to maximise DPS, and then comparing to Fury, then applying in-game. Yes .. Fury was nerfed and it hurt.. but now it's forced me to look at Arms as an alternative whereas I wouldn't have bothered trying it too much if Fury stayed top DPS.
My poor Shaman still remains unspecced after the initial 3.1 patch .. simply because I haven't had time / temperament to work on him, other than to say hello to people.
TLDR:
WTB 4+ Specs please!
Learning / Experimenting Arms is fun.
Nadril Apr 24th 2009 4:24PM
My DPS has honestly never felt better since 3.1. Arms is the most fun I've ever had in a spec, so much that I am Arms PvE + Arms PvP for dual specs.
Nick Apr 24th 2009 7:14PM
n00b!
:-D
Kyle Apr 24th 2009 5:02PM
I'd be curious to know about gear concerns when switching between Arms and Fury. I've been gearing as Fury in Heroics and have just begun Naxx 10. If I were to switch specs, would any gear changes be neccessary or does Arms work pretty well with Fury gear?