Patch 5.4 patch notes
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The Proving Grounds are coming
The latest patch 5.4 newsThe state of the Horde and the Alliance
by Lesley Smith 
Apr 26th 2009 at 2:00PM
Now, it's also worth remembering that there's no black and white in Azeroth either. The Horde aren't evil for just being the Horde, neither are the Alliance all pure as newly fallen snow. Each faction has done its fair share of pure and evil acts depending on the actions of individual heroes and the motivations of their leaders.
But now we're post patch 3.1, it's time to rexamine the state of relations between the two factions. Times have changed quite drastically since we first entered Azeroth and the addition of The Burning Crusade and Wrath of the Lich King have only made things much more complicated. The Wrath Gate cinematic gave us some glimpse of how the two factions are getting on in the continually evolving lore of Azeroth. While the recent trailer for the Secrets of Ulduar offered an even more promising glimpse at the deterioration of that tenuous peace.
For the most part this is mutual, but the real culprit behind everything is King Varian Wynn. Yes, the human king hates the Orcs (and by extension the Horde) and, to be honest, who can blame him? Abducted, bespelled and sold into slavery as part of a grand plot by the dragoness Onyxia he (as the gladiator Lo'Gosh) found himself without his memories in Orgrimmar.
Now returned to his throne room in Stormwind, he is a changed man. Bitter and battleworn, his attitude only gets worse once the Alliance loses its greatest living legend Bolvar Fordragon during the battle of the Wrath Gate.
So last night, I finally got around to completing the Wrath Gate questline and witnessed for myself how much Varian is letting his hatred rule his head. He blames the Horde and Thrall personally for the death of Bolvar despite the fact that it was a renegade faction of the Forsaken under the orders of Grand Apothocary Putress which caused the massacre. For now, at least, he seems so blinded by hate that he is unable or unwilling to make that distinction:
"I've waited a long time for this, Thrall. For every time I was thrown into one of your damned arenas... for every time I killed a green-skinned aberration like you... I could only think of one thing. What our world could be without you and your twisted Horde..."At the same time, the Horde are not all innocence and light either. Thrall's right-hand orc Garrosh Hellscream is just as bad. While he doesn't so much hate humans, he does lust for power seeing himself as the next Warchief and believes Thrall's weakness is his willingness to entertain humans like Jaina Proudmore (who I'm sure Thrall has a crush on).
So with 3.1, we got our first proper look at how the Alliance and Horde are coping post-Wrath Gate and it's not pretty. Varian seems to be swallowed by grief and fury while Thrall is receptive to Jaina's suggestions simply because she has always been a mediator between the factions.
You'd think such a dangerous situation as the resurgence of the Old God Yogg-Saron might unite these enemies against a common foe. Perhaps in the past this could have been true but now, neither side is willing to be co-operative. The trailer, as well as setting up 3.1, also features a promising sub-plot focusing on how the the two sides are beginning to turn completely against each other. I think it's only a matter of time before Blizzard bring this whole mess to a head and Varian and Garrosh face off.
We've already seen from the trailer that this is part of an on-going storyline, but I suspect it's not just a justification for war. There's a promise of something larger than just one king's grudge and perhaps we will discover an answer in the next patch or expansion.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, The Burning Crusade, Lore, NPCs, Wrath of the Lich King
Reader Comments (Page 4 of 7)
Tridus Apr 26th 2009 3:15PM
"New Horde" eh Kassu? Let's see. Your new Horde:
- Created a plague to wipe out the living, then lost control of it
- Sank an Alliance fleet sent to attack the Scourge
- Ambushed an Alliance force while fighting the Scourge (and then was proud of this glorious battle!)
- Has a complete nutjob in charge of their Northrend operation who just wants to fight everything in sight
Thrall has been a better ally to Arthas then anybody else.
Kaphik Apr 26th 2009 2:40PM
Just get it over with and get back to all out war already!
A1CYancy Apr 26th 2009 2:42PM
I wish there was a cross faction section of a raid. It'd probably be really difficult to work. You have a raid but there's an optional boss fight where alliance PCs who are also in the same instance fight WITH horde PCs in the same instance. Loot would be on a parallel so you wouldn't have the issue of one faction trying to ninja from the other faction. How awesome would it be to have a Nelf druid healing the Tauren warrior?? Or the troll priest healing the Human DK? If they REALLY wanted to be awesome, on PvP realms you go back to flagged as normally after 1 minute or so and it becomes Warsong Gulch on crack. If there wasn't anyone available from the other faction, they could sub with NPCs like the druid NPC in Grizzly Hills. It'd have to be more of a storyline fight than a real challenge just in case you get the .... not so bright opposite faction group who stares at you. Think of the battle for Undercity fight. Also the loot could be dependent on participation. So slugs who do 10% of the work get 3 pieces of loot, the other group gets 6.
I'm no game designer, but I think this game is about due for some cross faction playing. BOTH expansions have the opposite factions fighting the same enemy. Dailies have the two factions fighting for the same cause. I mean.... COME ON!! I know, I know, I know. It's a wet dream of mine... sue me.
Methuus Apr 26th 2009 2:46PM
My idea for the next expansion isn't yet another external threat. It's the breakdown of the truce between the Alliance and Horde.
Story-wise, with the scourge defeated (by the next expansion, I assume) and the burning legion, not defeated, but temporarily set back, there's no immediate external threat to force the Horde and Alliance to work uneasily together. Sure, there are various potential threats (Azshara in the Maelstrom; whatever is going on in the Emerald Dream), but they don't immediately threaten the end of the world. And the anger on both sides won't be held back by mere potential threats.
Game-wise, I'm not sure exactly what form that renewed hostility between the factions might take; particularly on PvE servers. Maybe extensive phasing in the old world with zones changing hands. (For example, the Alliance takes Tarren Mill and there is a Horde questline to take it back.) I'll leave it up to the clever folks and Blizzard to make it work.
If they want to take this a step further, what if the lack of an immediate external threat causes the tensions within the Factions to flare up. What if the various races split apart and form into different factional groupings. That would open some interesting possibilities as well.
Anyway, that's the way I'd love to see it go. I don't expect Blizzard will do this. I'm sure the next expansion will be yet another new set of zones with a shared enemy and lots of neutral factions and shared questlines.
dpoyesac Apr 26th 2009 3:26PM
Yes yes yes yes!
Think of this: with Phasing technology and the hard game-play lessons worked out through the lifespan of Wrath, I'm hoping that they ... (wait for it... wait for it...)
...turn whole zones of Azeroth into new Wintergrasps. (Without the godforsaken lag, of course.)
Just think of whole armies of Horde and Alliance 90s running around in vehicles trying to destroy, burn, and capture Ashenvale, or Dutwallow Marsh, or the Barrens...
Sounds so much more fun than ONCE AGAIN listening to guild whiners complaining because of raid loot drama.
zolikk Apr 26th 2009 2:50PM
Thrall? A crush on Jaina?
From what I've seen thus far, including the Ulduar trailer, I'd say it truly is vice-versa.
DragonFireKai Apr 26th 2009 2:54PM
The fact of the matter is that Thrall is incompetent as a leader. He's incapable of controling the people who make up his "new" Horde, and as such, the Horde has become a danger not only to the alliance, but to the continued existence of life on Azeroth. Between the Forsaken's sinking of the 5th fleet and murder of the thousands of troops the alliance was sending to fight the scourge before the wrathgate, To the wrathgate itself, to broken front, wherever the Alliance was striking a decisive blow against the Scourge, the Horde has been there, stabbing the Alliance in the back when the Alliance was focusing on the scourge.
The Alliance has put so much more of an effort in the fight against the scourge, while the horde seems to have sent troops to Northrend for the sole purpose of attacking the Alliance's war effort. It's the Alliance that has troops pinning Naxxramas down. The Alliance initiated the attack on Wrathgate. It's the Alliance who are sapping underneath the very foundation of Icecrown Citadel. It was the Alliance that retrieved the Ashbringer from the scourge in the crypts of the Vrykul. It was the Alliance that staged an attack to sieze the Deathgate from the scourge.
What has the Horde done in Northrend? Tested their bioweapons on Living Vrykul in Howling Fjord. Sank an Alliance Fleet that was going to attack the Lich King's Forces in Dragonblight. Used their bioweapons on Alliance troops when the Alliance was about to sieze the gate into Icecrown. Ambushed a second attack by the alliance, preventing them from siezing the Death Gate.
The Alliance will lose the fight against the scourge if they blindly allow the Horde to attack them with impunity. The Alliance needs to pause for a bit, put down Thrall's rabid horde, then refocus themselves upon defending against the Scourge.
yokumgang Apr 26th 2009 4:11PM
I just want to say that while the Alliance is holding down Naxx, the Horde is holding down Azjol-Nerub. If AN was not controlled, you'd have Anub'Arak killing everyone at the Wrath Gate.
Anyurisem Apr 26th 2009 2:55PM
I find it hard to believe that anyone who has paid attention to the lore thinks the Alliance can be at all 'pure as the driven snow'.
Having played as both factions the Horde seem far more benevolent to me. Their big flaw has been pointed out above though - they are more fragmented than the Alliance. But that is the price they pay for giving their members freedom.
The Alliance always strike me as being a lot more deceitful - nice on the outside, xenophobic, totalitarian and arrogant underneath.
smiley Apr 27th 2009 9:21AM
mad props on the xenocide comment >_<
DragonFireKai Apr 26th 2009 3:06PM
The Big Flaw of the horde isn't that they give their people more freedom, it's a chronic lack of control displayed by their "Warchief", who as far as absolute despots go, is kind of terrible at his job. He couldn't keep Grom from going off and attacking everything that wasn't an orc in the third war. Thrall's inability to reign in Grom cost the Night Elves their God, and their Sacred Forests. It cost the trolls their original home when Grom attacked the Humans who were suppressing the Murloc population.
From the murder of Cenarius to Broken Front, the horde has been plagued with a lack of control. The Alliance, who doesn't have centralized leadership, doesn't make mistakes of that magnitude. Sure, there are some people in the Alliance who are a little off putting, but you don't see them Butchering the Horde when the Horde is on the offensive against the undead.
Anyurisem Apr 26th 2009 3:14PM
No, They just save the indigenous races that the alliance would otherwise leave by the way side. The Alliance just butcher the Horde everywhere else.
I take it you only play as alliance? Otherwise you would know that Blizzard write the quests in such a way to paint the opposing faction as the bad guys. The real truth is somewhere in between.
And Varian is so blinded by hate that he is going to send is own kingdom up the spout in order to get revenge (despite the fact that it was the Defias - a problem of his own making - who really betrayed him).
Seraph Apr 26th 2009 8:50PM
This is a little delayed but in response to Anyurisem's comment:
"And Varian is so blinded by hate that he is going to send is own kingdom up the spout in order to get revenge (despite the fact that it was the Defias - a problem of his own making - who really betrayed him)."
The Defias were, in fact, not Varian's fault at all. The House of Nobles overruled him in attempting to pay the Stonemasons what the deserved. The House of Nobles that were, in fact, being influenced by none other than Lady Katrana Prestor - Onyxia herself.
Not to mention that the Stonemasons in question would not have been required at all had the Horde never razed Stormwind.
Vikodin Apr 26th 2009 3:10PM
While I recognize that Blizzard is doing this to revitalize the AvH PvP scene, I really wish they would do it in a different way. It seems like instead of neither side being 'good' or 'evil,' but just people, like Blizzard intends, the Alliance is becoming undeniably evil. Between Admiral Proudmoore, Grand Marshal Garithos, and Varian Wrynn, it seems like the Alliance is transforming into a convention of reactionary conservatives. Jaina is already closer to the Horde than the Alliance; I'm actually a bit surprised that Theramoore isn't friendly towards Horde players, and with Bolvar's death the Alliance is left with the reins in the hands of a man so scarred by his experiences that he has no business ruling a nation.
DragonFireKai Apr 26th 2009 3:23PM
Admiral Proudmoore is the Alliance Version of Grom Hellscream. He did the exact same thing that Grom did, attacking the orcs unprovoked in the same manner that Grom attacked human settlements in Kalimdor unprovoked. Thrall begged Jaina to forgive Grom for his transgressions, but when the ball was in his court, Thrall demanded that Jaina allow her own father to be killed.
Garithos was a jerk, but being a jerk doesn't warrant being betrayed and murdered by Sylvanas.
As for Wrynn. Wrynn has seen nothing of the Horde that serves to show him that they're anything but a menace. Twice he tried to attend peace meetings at Jaina's behest. The first time he was taken as a slave by an orc and forced to fight until his escape. The second time, he meets Thrall face to face. Thrall had the good sense to bring the very orc who enslaved Wrynn last time to the meeting. Great idea Thrall. Oh, and right as the meeting kicked off, the same orc who Wrynn watched murder his father tries to murder him. Not a very good impression.
Wrynn gave peace a chance, it nearly got him killed, several times. He tried simply leaving the Horde be while his kingdom went to war with the Scourge. The Horde attacked his troops every time he was about to deal the scourge a decisive blow. If peace doesn't work, and detente doesn't work, that only leaves the one option.
lockanon Apr 26th 2009 4:09PM
I don't think the problem is so much the Horde as a whole but the Forsaken. They aren't fighting the same fight as the Horde...in fact, they are even fighting AGAINST the Horde, so I can see where Varian's blind unjustified hatred of everything that's tinted green is wrong...but for God's sake Thrall, kick the Forsaken out, all they want is to get back at Arthas and then, oh, just wipe the living from the face of Azeroth. That's a pretty bad group to associate with and I'm thinking I'll stand and fight beside someone who has declared war on those that do associate with the forsaken. They certainly have my demon's and dots with them.
Brostok Apr 26th 2009 3:12PM
I never replied to anything on WowInsider before because I didn't feel I was contributing or felt passionate enough about anything to do so. With this article however I fully disagree with you.
Let's start off that at age 10 he watched an orc slaughter his father and the Horde burn down his city. Later in life he lost the person he admired most in childhood, Anduin Lothar, in battle to Ogrim Doomhammer. He saw his secondary home of Lorderon destroyed by his former childhood friend Arthas and taking over by the Scourge and Burning Legion. Then you begin the whole defias thing where the Stormwind Council betrays the stonemasons despite his full support of them, which then causes the riot that kills his wife. Before long he's abducted by the Defias, split by Onyxia, thrown into an Orc gladiator ring as a slave (wow what a fall from grace that must be) before fighting to survive every step back home to then find the black dragonflight is doing everything to take over his home and kill his only child. The the events at the wrathgate where one of his closest advisors and best friends is betrayed by the forsaken. Are you honestly telling me you wouldn't be just like him if you went through this?
The problem with the Horde and the Alliance is Varian and Thrall never got the chance to shake hands and came to an understanding. Varian was abducted *On a diplomatic mission* to meet with Thrall, possibly cementing a more permanent peace had not the Defias, Naga and Black dragons gotten involved. Varian may never have learned of the new hordes redemption and salvation, hes only seen the brutal aspect of their race. Worse yet I dont think he fully grasped the fact that the horde lost just as many as the Alliance did because of the treachery. There's enormous room for plot and character development though and things CAN change... just look what happened with the shattered sun offensive and the Sunwell!
Tridus Apr 26th 2009 3:10PM
You kind of missed the part about where Sylvanas is the one that created the Royal Apocathery Society, for the explicit purpose of creating a plague to wipe out the scourge AND the living.
Thrall let this happen.
His excuse that "oh that was a rebel group" is pretty flimsy when he had no problem whatsoever with the plague's existence right up until it got used against his own people.
You also really gloss over just how bad Garrosh really is. He's like Grom. He wants war. Period.
Scilk Apr 26th 2009 3:21PM
Say what you will about blizzard and the content of newer expansions, at the end of the day they know how to write pretty damn good lore.
It may have its oddities and questionable sections, but anything that can be written in such a way as to break people into so many different view points has to be bloody well written.
bigjonno Apr 26th 2009 3:25PM
The "The Horde must pay!" camp seem to forget one important detail. They already have. They lost the second war. The orcs were almost exterminated and most of the survivors were rounded up and imprisoned in internment camps. The rest of the New Horde weren't even part of the Horde back then (before anyone brings up trolls, the Darkspear only joined the Horde in WC3, the trolls in previous games were from different tribes.)
In WC3, Thrall leads the orcs to find a new homeland and what happens? An Alliance admiral decides he's going to start butchering orcs again.
Varian's actions are akin to Obama wanting to invade Germany because he had a bad experience with some extremist Neo-Nazi terrorists.