Patch 5.4 patch notes
Virtual Realms feature revealed
The Proving Grounds are coming
The latest patch 5.4 newsThe state of the Horde and the Alliance
by Lesley Smith 
Apr 26th 2009 at 2:00PM
Now, it's also worth remembering that there's no black and white in Azeroth either. The Horde aren't evil for just being the Horde, neither are the Alliance all pure as newly fallen snow. Each faction has done its fair share of pure and evil acts depending on the actions of individual heroes and the motivations of their leaders.
But now we're post patch 3.1, it's time to rexamine the state of relations between the two factions. Times have changed quite drastically since we first entered Azeroth and the addition of The Burning Crusade and Wrath of the Lich King have only made things much more complicated. The Wrath Gate cinematic gave us some glimpse of how the two factions are getting on in the continually evolving lore of Azeroth. While the recent trailer for the Secrets of Ulduar offered an even more promising glimpse at the deterioration of that tenuous peace.
For the most part this is mutual, but the real culprit behind everything is King Varian Wynn. Yes, the human king hates the Orcs (and by extension the Horde) and, to be honest, who can blame him? Abducted, bespelled and sold into slavery as part of a grand plot by the dragoness Onyxia he (as the gladiator Lo'Gosh) found himself without his memories in Orgrimmar.
Now returned to his throne room in Stormwind, he is a changed man. Bitter and battleworn, his attitude only gets worse once the Alliance loses its greatest living legend Bolvar Fordragon during the battle of the Wrath Gate.
So last night, I finally got around to completing the Wrath Gate questline and witnessed for myself how much Varian is letting his hatred rule his head. He blames the Horde and Thrall personally for the death of Bolvar despite the fact that it was a renegade faction of the Forsaken under the orders of Grand Apothocary Putress which caused the massacre. For now, at least, he seems so blinded by hate that he is unable or unwilling to make that distinction:
"I've waited a long time for this, Thrall. For every time I was thrown into one of your damned arenas... for every time I killed a green-skinned aberration like you... I could only think of one thing. What our world could be without you and your twisted Horde..."At the same time, the Horde are not all innocence and light either. Thrall's right-hand orc Garrosh Hellscream is just as bad. While he doesn't so much hate humans, he does lust for power seeing himself as the next Warchief and believes Thrall's weakness is his willingness to entertain humans like Jaina Proudmore (who I'm sure Thrall has a crush on).
So with 3.1, we got our first proper look at how the Alliance and Horde are coping post-Wrath Gate and it's not pretty. Varian seems to be swallowed by grief and fury while Thrall is receptive to Jaina's suggestions simply because she has always been a mediator between the factions.
You'd think such a dangerous situation as the resurgence of the Old God Yogg-Saron might unite these enemies against a common foe. Perhaps in the past this could have been true but now, neither side is willing to be co-operative. The trailer, as well as setting up 3.1, also features a promising sub-plot focusing on how the the two sides are beginning to turn completely against each other. I think it's only a matter of time before Blizzard bring this whole mess to a head and Varian and Garrosh face off.
We've already seen from the trailer that this is part of an on-going storyline, but I suspect it's not just a justification for war. There's a promise of something larger than just one king's grudge and perhaps we will discover an answer in the next patch or expansion.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, The Burning Crusade, Lore, NPCs, Wrath of the Lich King
Reader Comments (Page 6 of 7)
Dharzul Apr 26th 2009 4:53PM
One thing that hit me a while after the Wrathgate event, it is awfully convenient for Sylvanas/the Forsaken.
- the get rid of Varimathras (anyone knows a dreadlord cannot be trusted anyways)
- the horde and alliance are fighting each other instead of taking out the Lich King
Now they know they can hurt the Lich King with their plague, and kill horde/alliance. It fits them perfectly that everyone is fighting each other so they can eventually try to wipe everyone out.
The tauren/cenarion circle seem to suspect something though, I recall one of them being in Agmar's Hammer keeping an eye on the Royal Apothecary Society there.
On the other hand, will Blizzard really go down that way and have the Forsaken become enemies of all, effectively creating a third faction?
DrowNoble Apr 26th 2009 5:10PM
This is most likely Yogg-Saron influencing events. Remember Deathwing was corrupted by an Old God after he was made Aspect of the Earth. The Old God was never named, but since there are only 5 (on Azeroth) and 2 are dead, it could be Yogg-Saron "planning ahead".
All the Aspects have been distracted lately. Malygos "suddenly" going mad after being so helpful vs the Legion (in patch 2.4). Greens having trouble in the Emerald Dream due to the spreading Nightmare. Bronze missing their leader.
As far as Wrynn he is now the classic "bad Good Guy". The Orcs don't run the Arenas, the goblins do. So if he was going to be mad at anyone, it should of been the golbin's cartel. All the problems of Azeroth (in his mind) aren't the fault of the humans but the "non-humans". He doesnt care that the Horde lost as many men at the Wrathgate, he only cares that Bolvar died.
Garrosh is falling into the "absolute power corrupts absolutely" cliche. Trhall made him the commander of the Horde's Northrend forces, not because of any skill on Garrosh's part, but soley because he is Grom's son. Here is a guy that went from leading a small tribe of orcs in Nagrand to commanding a vast Horde Army in Northrend. So yeah, it went to his head.
Haven Apr 26th 2009 6:08PM
"I've waited a long time for this, Thrall. For every time I was thrown into one of your damned arenas... for every time I killed a green-skinned aberration like you... I could only think of one thing. What our world could be without you and your twisted Horde..."
Ruins after the Legion.
Aedilhild Apr 26th 2009 6:09PM
Coincidentally enough, I was recently chatting with fellow players about the potential for a post-Scourge world. Realigning races wouldn't be a surprise, especially given the tripartite balance of Starcraft. What about factions to which any player of any race can swear allegiance, like Aldor and Scryer? Or if alignment to one faction causes hostility from another but only unfriendly (and non-lethal) responses a third? Sanctuaries blur the lines, and so far it's been beneficial to gameplay.
I'd love to see Blizzard confident enough in its game to, in 2010 or so, take a long, satisfied look at WoW's legacy -- then advance the story to an entirely new chapter.
larsi Apr 26th 2009 6:47PM
@15: The Scarlet Crusade are not a part of the Alliance. An alliance quest exist specifically to take out the Crusade. Once you get into Northrend there are more to do the same.
You cannot compare the RAS to the Scarlet Crusade.
Amritrao Apr 26th 2009 11:17PM
Yet there are Scarlet Crusade recruiters at Nijel's Point and in the Cathedral of Light. While they may not be a political entity within the Alliance, they are most certainly tolerated and supported by it.
Hurgan Apr 27th 2009 2:46PM
Or to be more clear, it's hypocritical to point to factions within the Horde as Thrall's personal responsibility, and wash one's hand of the Scarlett Crusade. If the Alliance is so interested in peace, then surely they can put a muzzle on their own attack dogs outside of Brill, Razor Hill, and Ratchet, and change their mining laws to respect tribal rights in Mulgore and the Barrens.
It's an old argument going all the way back to the Napoleonic wars (if not back to Roman times). Repeatedly claiming a peace while fighting a proxy war and tolerating illegal acts only gets you so far.
kyrt Apr 26th 2009 6:43PM
The problem many Horde apologists have is that Varian is right.
He is not acting "emo". He is reacting to events which saw more of his people cut down by his so-called allies at the Wrathgate than the enemy they were to fight. He is reacting to the events of the battle of Undercity, where the Forsakens treatment of Alliance citizens was laid bare for all to see. He is reacting to years of skirmishes against the Horde, who seek to destroy the Alliance.
For years, he has held back. The Orcs are ravaging the forest of Ashenvale. The Forsaken seek to destroy the remnants of Arathor and Lordaeron. The Blood Elves recent attempts at genocide against the Draenei is well known.
How much pain and suffering is the Alliance, and Varian who has witnessed much of this, expected to take? How much death and destruction are the Horde to be allowed to get away with before enough is enough?
Varian, despite the continued insults and wars and destruction caused by the Horde, both old and new, has acted for peace. He has striven for peace. He has put the cause of peace in high prominence. He was kidnapped because he was on his way to a peace summit. He was nearly assassinated at a second peace summit by Horde assassins. He was willing to work with the Horde at the Wrathgate.
And as a result of it, he has been rewarded with continuing warfare in Ashenvale, Lordaeron and the Arathor Highlands. He has seen Alliance armies destroyed by Horde warriors more interested in seeing the Scourge gain victory than the Alliance gain a victory that they they had no part in. He has seen the treatment of the Alliance people by the Forsaken. Treatment condoned and approved of by Sylvanas.
For all the Horde saying that Varian is acting irrationally....after all this, after seeing his father murdered by a Horde assassin, after seeing his kingdom destroyed by the Horde (many of whom Thrall now honours), after seeing Anduin and Bolvar killed by the Horde, after seeing the events of the Battle of Undercity and the Broken Front - what other option did he have? Turn the other cheek and ignore Horde atrocities is only going to last so long and the fact that the Alliance has effectively done just that for years only shows it doesn't work.
So, for all those in the Horde who don't like Varian.....what choice is there? He can't trust the Horde. He can't ally with them. And he won't ignore their depradations and their atrocities any longer.
He has tried making peace. He has tried working with the Horde. And he has learnt a very painful lesson.
The Horde doesn't want peace. It never did.
EJL
Hurgan Apr 27th 2009 2:32PM
"The Orcs are ravaging the forest of Ashenvale."
Territory that had been abandoned to the wolves, spiders and satyr. Forest Song had been abandoned, and was only reoccupied in order to thwart construction efforts.
Meanwhile, Dwarves plunder Taruen lands, poisoning the waters of our hunting grounds.
"The Forsaken seek to destroy the remnants of Arathor and Lordaeron."
The Forsaken are Lordaeron. They were the people who built the city, who farmed its fields and worked its smithies. And now, the people of Lordaeron are reborn into war for existence against a genocidal military wing of the Alliance.
If there is to be peaceful coexistence between Forsaken and human, the policy of extermination must be abandoned.
"He has tried making peace. He has tried working with the Horde. And he has learnt a very painful lesson."
Yes peace.
Peace while the Crusade murders members of the horde and hangs the bodies as trophies.
Peace while the Dwarves show their respect for our lands with the hammer and the gun.
Peace while you buy weapons from companies that poison our wells and mine our forests.
Peace while you maintain an armed garrison primed to march on Durotar.
Peace while your marines fire indiscriminately on our shipping.
I don't think that word means what you think it does.
Alc Apr 26th 2009 7:07PM
Why does WoW insider right these lore articles in such a bias manner? Wrynn does not exist in a WoW vacuum. Take a look at the entire lore in general and write from that perspective. There is absolutely no way that one could consider Wrynn as being the bad guy or the alliance as the bad guys or even morally gray. Sure, neither side sticks to their evil or good actions (which is ridiculous to expect) but as far as their respective faction's direction goes, its pretty plain to see.
Blast9 Apr 26th 2009 9:30PM
There is much logical fallacy going on.
Peacebone Apr 26th 2009 11:39PM
didn't he fight, like, three times? I read those boring comic books, and I think he only fought in gladiatorial combat, seriously, like, three times, max. and on that note, didn't Thrall have to fight in the ring every single weekend under human orders? Varian is just a dick. he's a total bro. he's the pissed off jock with the gigantic truck covered in mud of the Warcraft universe.
smiley Apr 27th 2009 10:02AM
and WHAT is wrong with participating in sports, keeping in good shape and driving big trucks >_< mudding is fun :D
i more catigorise him as a I hate everybody who isn't like me.. a non-conformist goth kid really
CowontheRoof Apr 27th 2009 12:11AM
One thing I don't think I've seen anyone mention is that the whole Wrathgate...err..."situation" was completely orchestrated by the Burning Legion. Elements in the Royal Apothecary Society were working under Varimathras who, you guessed it, was working entirely for the Burning Legion. It's the same old bad guys we've been fighting this whole time. And to those arguments that might say that Sylvanas should have KNOWN about what the RAS was doing right under her nose...I point you to Onyxia practically running the entire human kingdom. So if we can't blame Bolvar, we can't really blame Sylvanas.
The whole Wrathgate debacle is, in effect, a victory for the Burning Legion. They've turned the Horde and Alliance against each other more fervently now since the second war. And on top of that, they used the Royal Apothecary Society to figure out a plague that could get rid of the Scourge...whom the BL is also at war with.
Sylvanas, Thrall, and Jaina understand this. Wrynn is jumping to conclusions and not listening to Jaina's reasoning. Wrynn should be blaming the black dragonflight or the Burning Legion. Those are the guys really responsible for his apparently troubled life of being a...successful...gladiator...Oh come on. Buck up, Varian, and watch a Russel Crowe movie!
I'm obviously a Horde fan, but...frankly...even I want to jump through the screen and tell Garrosh to STFU, sit down, and play nice. He's going to ruin everything Thrall has meticulously built.
Kyrt Apr 27th 2009 3:04AM
@103:
What do you mean " Sylvavans should have known?
She did know. The RAS went and tested the plague right in front of her.
As for Varian jumping to conclusions....he has been to Undercity. He has seen the laboratories, the slavepits, the testing facilities. He has seen the results.
Maybe he did jump...but he didn't have to jump far.
"Death to the Living" is very much a philosophy approved of by Sylvanas.
And, before I forget, the events of the Broken Front prove that the Alliance can't trust the Horde. The horde are now a bunch of folk who would rather see the Alliance dead at Horde hands than the Scourge defeated.
People keep talking about the Alliance needing to work together. But it takes two. And everytime the Alliance is the one who gets bit by the Hordes relutance to work with them.
When are people going to ask: Why can't the Horde work with the Alliance?
EJL
CowontheRoof Apr 27th 2009 9:20AM
I didn't mean that Sylvanas didn't know about the blight that would kill living and Scourge, I mean that she didn't know about the rouge elements in the RAS that were working for the burning legion. Sorry if I didn't clarify that enough.
And also, the events at the Broken Front happen after Varian declared war on the Horde. Working together at this point isn't going to happen as long as Garrosh is in control of the Horde Offensive. But at this point Thrall is probably worried about keeping the clans together right now. He is probably realizing the foolishness of taking Garrosh out of Nagrand and involving him in beyond operations in outlands.
kyrt Apr 27th 2009 2:39AM
@8:
[quote]How do you account for the Eredar, then? The Alliance welcomed the Draenai with open arms, despite the fact members of their race are essentially the ones who created the Horde in the first place? The Orcs were a peaceful, Shamanistic people until the Eradar came around. If you're going to hold Thrall and the modern Horde accountable for the actions of Ner'zhul, shouldn't the Alliance be accountable after admitting a race that spawned Kil'jaeden?
[/quote]
The Draenei are the people who rejected everything KJ stood for and accepted.
Many of the Orcs are the very same people who committed genoicide against those same Draenei, and who invaded Azeroth and Lordaeron and who drank of the demons blood.
That is the difference.
One difference actually. The Orcs alienated the night elves by the irrational push for doiminance in Ashenvale. The Draenei, who the Night Eleves were and are wary of because of their connection to the Eredar, got accepted, got lands, got shelter, aid and supplies for their people.
Think what that would have meant if the Horde hadn't decided "Nice land. Think we'll take them".
In short, the Alliance accepted and aided a people related to the Burning Legion. They have tried to work at peace with the Horde. And what have they got for their trouble? Ashenvale. Arathor. Hillsbrad. Southshore. The Wrathgate. The Broken Front. The undercity.
The worst the Horde can point to is usually Bael Modan, where the Dwarves actually worked with the the Tauren to uncover their past or Durnholde Keep, where Thrall was one of the only slaves kept - and then by someone who wasn't representative of the Alliance - or Admiral Proudmoore, who has since been proven largely right about the Horde.
The problem isn't that Thrall doesn't want peace. The problem is that he is a weak leader losing control of his people, many of whom aren't interested in peace.
EJL
Bikhai Apr 27th 2009 3:13AM
"Many of the Orcs are the very same people who committed genoicide against those same Draenei, and who invaded Azeroth and Lordaeron and who drank of the demons blood."
Your chronology is a little off there. The drinking of the demon's blood came before the attacking of the Draenei. Might I also add that there was a *bit* of demonic influence involved. Bad things were done, yes, and I won't deny that. However, the fact that it was orchestrated and performed according to the influence of the Burning Legion is far from inconsequential. The orcs didn't get together and say "lulz let's drink this. I hear the Burning Legion has a great retirement plan."
And regarding your excuse for the Draenei, if citing ideological differences is a valid means of avoiding blame, then the entire Horde should be off the hook, save for the Forsaken. Amirite? After all, under Thrall's banner, there has been a push to reform for past mistakes and to err on the side of diplomacy, even if not everyone is on board.
Maybe that means Thrall is "weak," maybe it doesn't. Either way your argument doesn't fly. You can't claim guilt by association for the horde and not for the alliance, and you can't use ex post facto judgement of the New Horde as a viable argument.
Kyrt Apr 27th 2009 4:01AM
"Your chronology is a little off there. The drinking of the demon's blood came before the attacking of the Draenei."
No...it came afterwards.
The Orcs started the attacks. They staretd the genocide. After a while...then they drank the blood.
The genocide started before that happened.
"Might I also add that there was a *bit* of demonic influence involved. Bad things were done, yes, and I won't deny that. However, the fact that it was orchestrated and performed according to the influence of the Burning Legion is far from inconsequential. The orcs didn't get together and say "lulz let's drink this. I hear the Burning Legion has a great retirement plan.""
No. They got together sand said "Our chiefs and Shamans said the Draenei are bad and need to be killed. Lets do it". True, there was a demonic influence, but there is a limit to how far that influence can be blamed. There was not a lot of resistance to the idea of racial genocide at any stage. Indeed, they even took pleasure in the slaughter. It was so much more invigorating and satisfying hunting down and slaying those who fought back and the cries of the helpless dying nwhere they were found so much the sweeter. And that was before they drank the blood.
"And regarding your excuse for the Draenei, if citing ideological differences is a valid means of avoiding blame"
No...I'm say the Draenei are those who rejected the demonic influence entirely, while the Orcs of the Horde are those who acecpted it.
"Maybe that means Thrall is "weak," maybe it doesn't. Either way your argument doesn't fly. You can't claim guilt by association for the horde and not for the alliance, and you can't use ex post facto judgement of the New Horde as a viable argument."
Unfortuantely, it isn't guilt by association. The Horde is filled with Orcs who gleefully took part in the slaughter of the Draenei, who willingly accepted the demonic blood, who did take part in the destruction of Azeroth. There is no association involved. These are the people who carried out these acts with their own hands.
EJL
Terrorbyt3 Apr 27th 2009 4:11AM
What needs to happen is Garrosh needs to mortally wound Varian, and then Wrynn should deal a killing blow on Hellscream. With both of them being outright bigots, I hate them both, and they should both die. Then Jaina, being the only level-headed alliance main character, needs to make peace again with the Horde. And Thrall, being as obviously in love with Jaina as he is, and also being a completely level-headed person, will agree and peace will reign in Azeroth.